Why do you call Destruction of Property Murder?

[ianw]

I'm fully aware of this. This is exactly the hand wavium I refer to.

This is the game's way of explaining respawning. On paper it seems reasonable. But it still fails to explain how it takes a matter of seconds to reappear in the last station we docked in, even if we're 60k ly away.

And it contradicts the game's crime mechanic. There is no murder, no one dies. Given everyone knows this, it's not even attempted murder.

The only way it'll be murder is if they release the dda planned iron man group.

My point was to say it's mostly a washed out attempt to explain something that can't be explained without some hefty science fiction. And that it's not important. It's just a game and murder is a part of the game (we cannot deny that, that's also in the dda and the actual game). So you either suspend disbelief over the respawn mechanic or you suspend disbelief over the crime of murder.

I prefer the former option. And am quite happy believing that respawning is magic.

TBH I'm not fussed either way - I'm not an "immersionist", I'm just a bit of a pedant when it comes to words sometimes.

I just assumed it was a placeholder thing until we get a physical commander that can EVA etc. and then maybe it will get fleshed out - or not.

 

[Nara]

The pilot would die at a 100% rate if not for the escape pod so my example is still better as you do not need anything to protect you from the Banana.

No because in your example death is still possible. Your pilot cannot in any circumstances die. The wonders of 34th century technology

 

[Don Alvarez]

Death is not the end...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao0lyPjYQw0

Shane almost sounds sober in this.

 

[smiths121]

Insta-spawning 60KLy away seems hard to explain, but its obvious! Escape pods use a different hyperdrive technology based on Thargoid Drive Technology (tm ... patent pending), that has a very, very large range - effectively infinite, and goes very, very fast, effectively anywhere instantaneous. The escape pod is very small (maybe 1 ton), so never has to wait for docking permission, even at outposts as they cna always squeeze it in somewhere. Simple, no need for Cylons.

Not sure it helps much, but playing space invaders back in the early 80s, we used to refer to losing a life, or having 3 lives. Given I have only one life, I find that much harder to explain without the use of Cylons.

I think it comes down to attaching emotive terms to loss to demonstrate and "heal" after the loss. Which leads me to a counter queston....


The real question is how would a game player, role-playing a serial criminal, that uses hollowness of a scanner symbol is to select said victim of crime. "psycho" - seems to get some people annoyed but given the victim selection patterns sort of fits, "griefer" gets into a debate about what griefing is which no-one can agree on, and everyone stops caring, "murderer" is used to separate from "pirate", a serial criminal that acts within the game rules for serial criminals but still has an unhealthy obsession with hollowness.

Think I am going to go for the terms "serial criminal acting within the game rules who is not a pirate, but is a bit obsessed with how hollow things are, but to avoid annoying people this in no way makes them a psycho". Got to say "murderer" and "griefer" is a lot less keystrokes, I suspect that is why I have often used these terms in the past.

Also as this is a family friendly politically correct forum, I think I will also start referring to myself as a "hollow symbol avatar who is a potential victim of serial crime by those obsessed with hollowness". Yep that is better than "fluffy bunny" or carebear - but again a lot of keystrokes......

On second thoughts, stick to murderer and carebear - life is too short.
Anyone else got politically correct, family friendly terms for repeat perpetrator's of "serial crime to do with hollowness" ?

Simon

 

[Rankaze]

If all ships have an escape capsule and a pilot can never be killed, how can the destruction of the ship be even attempted murder?

It would be like throwing a banana at someone IRL and calling it attempted murder even though you can't be killed by a thrown banana.

The OP is right, murder isn't in the game.

I think the intent is that escape pods in lore are not actually infallible. If they were, why would NPC's say things like, "It's not my time to die?"

Escape pods always working for CMDR's is a handwave and a game mechanic.

 

[bossbrigand]

Welcome to my ignore list.

Welcome to mine.

Instead of just owning the fact that you're a murderer, you're sitting here trying to justify it to yourself. Mediocre...

 

[Arry]

Insta-spawning 60KLy away seems hard to explain, but its obvious! Escape pods use a different hyperdrive technology based on Thargoid Drive Technology (tm ... patent pending), that has a very, very large range - effectively infinite, and goes very, very fast, effectively anywhere instantaneous. The escape pod is very small (maybe 1 ton), so never has to wait for docking permission, even at outposts as they cna always squeeze it in somewhere. Simple, no need for Cylons.

Not sure it helps much, but playing space invaders back in the early 80s, we used to refer to losing a life, or having 3 lives. Given I have only one life, I find that much harder to explain without the use of Cylons.

I think it comes down to attaching emotive terms to loss to demonstrate and "heal" after the loss. Which leads me to a counter queston....


The real question is how would a game player, role-playing a serial criminal, that uses hollowness of a scanner symbol is to select said victim of crime. "psycho" - seems to get some people annoyed but given the victim selection patterns sort of fits, "griefer" gets into a debate about what griefing is which no-one can agree on, and everyone stops caring, "murderer" is used to separate from "pirate", a serial criminal that acts within the game rules for serial criminals but still has an unhealthy obsession with hollowness.

Think I am going to go for the terms "serial criminal acting within the game rules who is not a pirate, but is a bit obsessed with how hollow things are, but to avoid annoying people this in no way makes them a psycho". Got to say "murderer" and "griefer" is a lot less keystrokes, I suspect that is why I have often used these terms in the past.

Also as this is a family friendly politically correct forum, I think I will also start referring to myself as a "hollow symbol avatar who is a potential victim of serial crime by those obsessed with hollowness". Yep that is better than "fluffy bunny" or carebear - but again a lot of keystrokes......

On second thoughts, stick to murderer and carebear - life is too short.
Anyone else got politically correct, family friendly terms for repeat perpetrator's of "serial crime to do with hollowness" ?

Simon

Dross?

Arry.

 

[CmdrZaratan]

Destruction of property is called murder, because this is a capitalist utopia and destruction of property is now the most serious crime one can commit

 

[jmg]

Murder?

This is down to 'motive'. Without motive, there can't be murder, therefore your intention is taken into account. It has nothing to do with your motives or actions, that the crew survives.

Therefore, the crime, until proved otherwise, is murder.

Arry.

actually, you need intent, not motive. Two slightly different things.
Even without a specific intent ("I intended to kill") you can still commit murder (killing during a crime=murder regardless of intent; killing with reckless regard is manslaughter, etc. etc.)

So.... your response is not quite accurate.

 

[Han Brannigan]

No because in your example death is still possible.

As it is in yours. However preventing the death in yours does not require special technique in mine ( just as in ED ) it does. Logic, use it.

 

[Nara]

I think the intent is that escape pods in lore are not actually infallible. If they were, why would NPC's say things like, "It's not my time to die?"

Escape pods always working for CMDR's is a handwave and a game mechanic.

Maybe not all NPCs are aware that escape pods are infallible? Or more likely FD messed some of the text up.

 

[jmg]

Dross?

Arry.

I still think star wars galaxies had the best way of implementing "death."
You had to pick a spot on one of the planets and clone yourself. When you "died," your clone woke up in a bacta tank. you lost some ability (due to cloning sickness of course) and any data you had prior to updating your clone (which would explain in this game why a pilot can be rescued across 10000 light years, but not months worth of scanning data which, in this game's timeline, could probably fit on a postage stamp). simple, and required very little suspension of disbelief ... trying to explain how your clone got your light sabre and other items... well... nothing's perfect.

 

[Nara]

As it is in yours. However preventing the death in yours does not require special technique in mine ( just as in ED ) it does. Logic, use it.

No, your example of a bullet proof vest requires taking an unusual step to prevent a special circumstance.

An escape capsule is installed by default in all ships and will save the pilot from all types of ship destruction, not just attack.

So it is a default part of the ship that they all have, and not at all a special piece of equipment for only one situation.

In my example, your body structure by default means a banana cannot kill you.

 

[Pendra]

It's curious.
A pirate in the game wants to be known as a pirate,
A bounty hunter is proud of his occupation.

But a player who plays the role of a murderer and who kills for no reason, he makes excuses.

The game says "Murder", so murder it is.

The Pirate is a fancy word for someone who removes your belonging from your possession at gunpoint. Pirates do exactly that, steal your stuff with some ships involved.

A Bounty Hunter is someone who hunts down marked persons for reward. BH hunters do exactly that. Maybe not a specific person, but they ID him, hunt him and bring them to "justice" to a station. Granted, not in their holds, but through magic cloning. If we go with the clone thing. We can say that BHs are hunting malfunctioning clones, who went nuts in space. Yeah, I kinda like this clone argument. It makes plenty of sense from multiple aspects.

If popping you would result the spinning gravestone, game over, save cleared, then yeah it would be a murder of your in-game persona. But that doesn't happen. You don't die. Or at least your important part, your mind doesn't.
With the cloning, life is cheap. Maybe the bounty is actually the cost of the cloning, which is then put on the person, who is responsible for the damage due to improper handling.

Cloning, perfect sense. We would need to create a complete in-game theory around it and submit to FD .

Off.:
Oh, I gave you my In-Game reason for the attack at a different thread I don't plan to do it again here. The reason you are popped is because you can be popped. Weak ships, out there alone, unprepared to defend themselves will perish at one point. Get better at interdiction evasion, fly a fast ship or one heavily armed or insanely shielded. There are many proper in-game ways to avoid getting popped in open. Learning and using them may even be exciting.

 

[smiths121]

Dross?

Arry.

Almost certainly - bored at work.

I did start off trying to answer the OP - got a bit hand after that.....

We use emotive words to demonstrate our sense of loss, so "murder" not destruction.

Simon

 

[jmg]

Cloning, perfect sense. We would need to create a complete in-game theory around it and submit to FD .

just give me credit for it

 

[Arry]

actually, you need intent, not motive. Two slightly different things.
Even without a specific intent ("I intended to kill") you can still commit murder (killing during a crime=murder regardless of intent; killing with reckless regard is manslaughter, etc. etc.)

So.... your response is not quite accurate.

Semantics? But I'll agree, the 'intentions' matter and the intention is still to 'wipe out', another Commander without justification. Apart from the desire/intent, to do harm. After all, we are not talking about, 'honourable combat', are we, we are talking about the fact that the game, has branded the perpetrator, a murderer.

Arry.

 

[Jack Schitt]

If all ships have an escape capsule and a pilot can never be killed, how can the destruction of the ship be even attempted murder?

Because the "instant, ever-present, indestructible" escape capsule is a description of an aspect of the current game code, while everything else is an aspect of the game's simulated world.

As players we all have the instant escape pods because a) there's no ironman mode, b) there are no manually operated escape pods that we can buy and, even if there were, c) nobody wants to sit in front of their PC for days, weeks or months after ship destruction while their avatar floats in deep space waiting for the rescue ship to arrive and take them back to civilisation.

In the game world, not every entity has a escape system and characters have no way of knowing who has and who hasn't. So blowing someone's ship up is murder, or at the very least attempted murder. Players know that other players have an instant escape capsule, but applying that knowledge to the in-game crime of murder is confusing the in-game universe with the meta once more.

The game world and the game code, the game players and the game characters. Easy to keep separate. No bullet-proof vests, blank rounds or bananas needed. Of course certain agendas are furthered by conflating the two, which does muddy the waters a bit.

 

[Arry]

The Pirate is a fancy word for someone who removes your belonging from your possession at gunpoint. Pirates do exactly that, steal your stuff with some ships involved.

A Bounty Hunter is someone who hunts down marked persons for reward. BH hunters do exactly that. Maybe not a specific person, but they ID him, hunt him and bring them to "justice" to a station. Granted, not in their holds, but through magic cloning. If we go with the clone thing. We can say that BHs are hunting malfunctioning clones, who went nuts in space. Yeah, I kinda like this clone argument. It makes plenty of sense from multiple aspects.

If popping you would result the spinning gravestone, game over, save cleared, then yeah it would be a murder of your in-game persona. But that doesn't happen. You don't die. Or at least your important part, your mind doesn't.
With the cloning, life is cheap. Maybe the bounty is actually the cost of the cloning, which is then put on the person, who is responsible for the damage due to improper handling.

Cloning, perfect sense. We would need to create a complete in-game theory around it and submit to FD .

Off.:
Oh, I gave you my In-Game reason for the attack at a different thread I don't plan to do it again here. The reason you are popped is because you can be popped. Weak ships, out there alone, unprepared to defend themselves will perish at one point. Get better at interdiction evasion, fly a fast ship or one heavily armed or insanely shielded. There are many proper in-game ways to avoid getting popped in open. Learning and using them may even be exciting.

Pendra, it is nice to see that you continue to fight your corner. Justify you own actions, beliefs etc. The above paragraph explains everything clearly. The weak 'are in your own words' fair game, to be treated with contempt. It is their fault you have the opportunity to; (and I love your euphemism) 'pop' them.

So my question is this. How do you refer to your self? What do you call your, actions. As you have pointed out. You are not a bounty hunter, or even a pirate, so what are you, what is your title, in the great scheme of things?

Arry.

 

[Pendra]

nobody wants to sit in front of their PC for days, weeks or months after ship destruction while their avatar floats in deep space waiting for the rescue ship to arrive and take them back to civilisation.

What if you could mount a rescue mission to practically save your pilot floating in space? That could be fun. Coming up with a good in-game reason and explanation may be hard, thou.