Why does everyone call ED a space flight sim?

[Alec Turner]

No, it doesn't.

Are you sure? Sorry but I'm sure I saw a video ages ago where someone flew in normal space from one planet to another and the way they did it (to conserve fuel) was to get their vector right, turn both Flight Assist and their thrusters off, and then just drift for hours. Or has something changed since then?

 

[Deadlock-3000]

Are you sure? Sorry but I'm sure I saw a video ages ago where someone flew in normal space from one planet to another and the way they did it (to conserve fuel) was to get their vector right, turn both Flight Assist and their thrusters off, and then just drift for hours. Or has something changed since then?

Great question. "Has something changed since the unspecified time I think I might have seen something somewhere but can't produce it"?

You should work for Fox.

 

[Cmdr Esteban]

I always chuckle when I read posts claiming Elite is a "game" not a "sim". If DCS compromises on just one flight model parameter does it cease to be a sim and just a "game"? Who gets to decide where the line is drawn? You? Me? One man's arcade game is another man's detailed flight sim.

 

[StuartGT]

"The space flight simulator"

Fixed that for you Space Commander!

You're not very good at this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elite_Dangerous

Elite Dangerous is a space-flight simulation game developed and published by Frontier Developments. Piloting a spaceship, the player explores a realistic 1:1 scale open-world representation of the Milky Way galaxy, with the gameplay being open-ended. The game is the first in the series to attempt to feature massively multiplayer gameplay, with players' actions affecting the narrative story of the game's persistent universe, while also retaining single-player options. Elite Dangerous is the fourth game in the Elite video game series. It is the sequel to Frontier: First Encounters, released in 1995.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_flight_simulation_game

A space flight simulation game is a genre of flight simulator video games that lets players experience space flight to varying degrees of realism. Many games feature space combat, and some games feature commerce and trading in addition to combat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_flight_simulation_game#History

Elite has made a lasting impression on developers, worldwide, extending even into different genres. In interviews, senior producers of CCP Games cited Elite as one of the inspirations for their acclaimed MMORPG, EVE Online. Þórólfur Beck, CCP's co-founder, credits Elite as the game that impacted him most on the Commodore 64. Developers of Jumpgate Evolution, Battlecruiser 3000AD, Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Hard Truck: Apocalyptic Wars and Flatspace likewise all claim Elite as a source of inspiration.

Elite was named one of the sixteen most influential games in history at Telespiele, a German technology and games trade show, and is being exhibited at such places as the London Science Museum in the "Game On" exhibition organized and toured by the Barbican Art Gallery. Elite was also named #12 on IGN's 2000 "Top 25 PC Games of All Time" list, the #3 most influential video game ever by the Times Online in 2007, and "best game ever" for the BBC Micro by Beebug Magazine in 1984. Elite's sequel, Frontier: Elite II, was named #77 on PC Zone's "101 Best PC Games Ever" list in 2007. Similar praise has been bestowed elsewhere in the media from time to time.

Elite is one of the most popularly requested games to be remade, and some argue that it is still the best example of the genre to date, with more recent titles—including its sequel—not rising up to its level. It has been credited as opening the door for future online persistent worlds, such as Second Life and World of Warcraft, and as being the first truly open-ended game. It is to this day one of the most ambitious games ever made, residing in only 22 kilobytes of memory and on a single floppy disk. The latest incarnation of the franchise, titled Elite: Dangerous, was released on 16 December 2014, following a successful Kickstarter campaign.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_space_flight_simulator_games

This is a comprehensive index of commercial, indie and freeware space flight simulator games. The list is categorized into four sections: space flight simulators, space flight simulators with an added element of combat, space combat simulators with an added element of trading, and unreleased space flight simulators.

A space flight simulator game is software that allows the operator to experience spacecraft space flight in outer space with the added elements of gameplay. There are many different types of simulators. These simulators range in purpose from pure simulation to sheer entertainment. Space flight occurs beyond the Earth's atmosphere, and space flight simulators feature the ability to roll, pitch, and yaw. Space flight simulators use flight dynamics in a free environment; this free environment lets the spacecraft move within the three-dimensional coordinate system or the x, y, and z (applicate) axis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...ames#Free-form_space_trading_and_combat_games

Free-form space trading and combat games
--snip--
Elite: Dangerous
--snip--

I hope that one day you are able to reconcile your terminology differences with those of the wider gaming community.

 

[Wrecked]

It's always a justification given for certain less entertaining elements of the game. It isn't a space sim. Have you seen what astronauts do? Elite is NOTHING like reality so can we please just get FDev focussing on making an enjoyable and engaging space game?

That's all I had to say really. Feel free to agree or disagree at your own leisure.

This is just par for the course behavior from the Elitist Elite player base. Observe.

Average Elitist Elite player:

Elitist Elite player has been playing since alpha and proclaims the game is a sim and should be complicated to play.
New mechanics are added that require more button mappings.
Elitist Elite player b*tches that the game is becoming too casual and easy but can't bother to map new buttons because it's too complicated.
Elitist Elite player yells at children for playing on his lawn (I'm assuming).

I'm glad Frontier is ran by smart people. God bless them for maintaining their composure and staying the course while having to deal with these adult children.

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

"The space flight simulator game is rubbish because cannisters don't drift off forever"

One of my favourite clips from one of my favourite films...

 

[babelfisch]

Are you sure? Sorry but I'm sure I saw a video ages ago where someone flew in normal space from one planet to another and the way they did it (to conserve fuel) was to get their vector right, turn both Flight Assist and their thrusters off, and then just drift for hours. Or has something changed since then?

Sorry, my answer referred to the first part of your post

 

[777Driver]

So physics laws are going to change in future, in 3034 there is going to be drag in vacuum/space that will stop moving ship/floating object after few hundred meters.

Damn Thanos, he changed everything!

Spitfire Pilot try's to put an A340-300 into a 50 degree nose down attitude an exceed Mach .86, aircraft stops pitching at 30 degrees nose down, reduces thrust on all 4 engines & continues to reduce pitch attitude to maintain a 1g load factor.. It isn't magic or changing Physics, it is a flight control law. Now load up ED, turn off Flight assist, watch what the thrusters do if you try to push the ship beyond the coded control law limits.

Control in this game is achieved via thrusters as opposed to control surfaces, however the same principles apply, FA-ON (and OFF) Overrides inputs, just like C* Law or EEC's (Thrust management) You even get thruster animations.

There are various things added for gameplay reasons, for example bumping into a cargo canister at 100M/S. Now tell me you think it is bad idea that canisters stop if they get bumped during scooping. FA-ON also does a few weird things regarding animations (Thruster trails for example) This isn't Kerbal or a study sim.

Here's some bed time reading https://dspace.lib.cranfield.ac.uk/.../186/coareport9303.pdf?sequence=2&isAllowed=y

 

[IamMe]

You're not very good at this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elite_Dangerous


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_flight_simulation_game


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_flight_simulation_game#History


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_space_flight_simulator_games


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...ames#Free-form_space_trading_and_combat_games


I hope that one day you are able to reconcile your terminology differences with those of the wider gaming community.

Wikipedia lol, written by ED fan!
Imagine atmo flight sims have no atmopsheric drag and speed limit, and call it flight sims!
LoL

Why am i arguing with someone who calls himself Space Commader for god sake!

 

[da_wae]

Elite Dangerous is a space sim in the sense it has "space ships", "space" and a "galaxy".

But the laws of physics in the ED universe are so much different from our own, I wouldn't really call it a sim.

In ED, spaceships handle like airplanes in space, yaw is useless - you must rotate and pitch (IN SPACE xD). There's also speed limits in space, and every object suffers from "magical drag" in a vacuum.

Babylon 5 simulated physics better than ED back in 1994 [haha]
Their ships actually used newtonian physics and 6 degrees of freedom semi-realistically.

Edit: the only realistic sci-fi show today is The Expanse which also features realistic physics.

 

[Patrick_68000]

The game is dead !

 

[Cmdr Esteban]

Wikipedia lol, written by ED fan!
Imagine atmo flight sims have no atmopsheric drag and speed limit, and call it flight sims!
LoL

Why am i arguing with someone who calls himself Space Commader for god sake!

And I reiterate, to shamelessly quote myself:

I always chuckle when I read posts claiming Elite is a "game" not a "sim". If DCS compromises on just one flight model parameter does it cease to be a sim and just a "game"? Who gets to decide where the line is drawn? You? Me? One man's arcade game is another man's detailed flight sim.

And who among us is to be the arbiter of what does and does not pass the test to be a true space sim? You, sir?

I'm sorry, but your logical fallacy is:
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/no-true-scotsman

 

[da_wae]

And I reiterate, to shamelessly quote myself:



And who among us is to be the arbiter of what does and does not pass the test to be a true space sim? You, sir?

I'm sorry, but your logical fallacy is:
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/no-true-scotsman

A space simulator worth of the moniker would at least give you true 6-deg-of-freedom (without the artificial nerf to yaw)

You know, since rotating the ship on its own axis doesn't affect linear momentum too much, you should literally be able to rotate it in any direction with the same level of performance. There's no air resistance in space to affect the rotational drag.

 

[Siobhan]

A space simulator worth of the moniker would at least give you true 6-deg-of-freedom (without the artificial nerf to yaw)

Take a look at any ship in ED, I'm looking at my conda now... ALL the lateral thrusters are positioned either vertically or at <=30deg from that. There are no horizontal thrusters apart from forward and back. I'm sure that's because of the "artificial nerf" as you call it, but at least it's a lore explanation.

 

[777Driver]

Take a look at any ship in ED, I'm looking at my conda now... ALL the lateral thrusters are positioned either vertically or at <=30deg from that. There are no horizontal thrusters apart from forward and back. I'm sure that's because of the "artificial nerf" as you call it, but at least it's a lore explanation.

not even worth trying to explain it Siobhan.

 

[Siobhan]

not even worth trying to explain it Siobhan.

Yeah, you're right... I should have known better than to try.

 

[da_wae]

Take a look at any ship in ED, I'm looking at my conda now... ALL the lateral thrusters are positioned either vertically or at <=30deg from that. There are no horizontal thrusters apart from forward and back. I'm sure that's because of the "artificial nerf" as you call it, but at least it's a lore explanation.

That's more of a "post hoc" lore-creation. There's absolutely no valid reason (other than "many vocal players prefer WW2 planes in space than real spaceships") for spaceships built in the year 3000 to not have horizontal maneuvering thrusters.

 

[Cmdr Esteban]

A space simulator worth of the moniker would at least give you true 6-deg-of-freedom (without the artificial nerf to yaw)

You know, since rotating the ship on its own axis doesn't affect linear momentum too much, you should literally be able to rotate it in any direction with the same level of performance. There's no air resistance in space to affect the rotational drag.

Indeed, with FA-off and translational thruster control bound to an analogue input, I have absolutely no difficulty achieving any of what you described above (other than the acknowldeged artificially restricted yaw), why do you?

 

[da_wae]

Indeed, with FA-off and translational thruster control bound to an analogue input, I have absolutely no difficulty achieving any of what you describe above (other than the acknowldeged artificially restricted yaw), why do you?

With FA-off you still get: speed limits in space and artificially nerfed yaw (4-deg of freedom, not 6).

Not sure what else there is to consider regarding the verisimilitude of the ED simulation.

 

[babelfisch]

This is just par for the course behavior from the Elitist Elite player base. Observe.

Average Elitist Elite player:

Elitist Elite player has been playing since alpha and proclaims the game is a sim and should be complicated to play.
New mechanics are added that require more button mappings.
Elitist Elite player b*tches that the game is becoming too casual and easy but can't bother to map new buttons because it's too complicated.
Elitist Elite player yells at children for playing on his lawn (I'm assuming).

I'm glad Frontier is ran by smart people. God bless them for maintaining their composure and staying the course while having to deal with these adult children.

Ironically you are the one behaving elitist.