Why does it take so long to fix game issues?

Eymerich

E
Rafe Zetter said:
and neither do you, even though you try, again and again and again and again and again and again (and again, see above ^^^, oh the irony) - but maybe you should pay a bit more attention around here instead of rabidly defending everything without actually READING any of it.

Do you know WHY I've been so visibly vocal and it looks like I'm the "only one complaining" for four years?

Because all the others have left - given up, walked away from ED and FDev as a lost cause, irredeemable and forever broken. I can name one backer who has personally confirmed to me that he backed the game for MORE THAN £10,000 GBP, but he walked away 2 years ago.

There are forum members who had spent YEARS ont htis forum BEFORE the ED kickstarter talking about a 4th Elite game and how amazing that would be, with all the new game engines and computer power.

Where are they now? well, quite a few left after offlinegate, disgusted by how much they had to fight just to get a refund they were legally entitled to; the rest? Well they just drifted off one by one, usually not long after FDev released content that turned out to be shabby and half baked.

Very VERY occasionally I see them pop back and post, possibly to see if FDev have managed to redeem themselves or maybe out of pure morbid curiosity, who knows, but most of the oppostion to your fanboy club has gone.

You might beleive there are less complaints now because FDev are doing a better job, and to some exrtent that is true, you'll even see ME praise them on occasion if you dig hard enough, but you don't make somethign great by saying "that'll do" and walking off.

What you and all the other fanbois don't seem to understand is that the "complainers" are fanbois who REFUSE to accept mediocre, we are actually on the SAME SIDE fighting the SAME FIGHT, but we are the ones pushing FDev TO MAKE ED THE BEST IT CAN BE, because the Elite franchise is THE PROGENITOR, the seed from whence this genre grew, yet it is being overtaken and overshadowed by the hungry and committed, with less money and less resources and the worst part is, FDev can see this and seemingly do little.

So while you won't like this, the truth is that all the rabid fanbois who praise everything FDev does, regardless of quality, while it might make you and them feel good, you're not actually doing them any favors.

Fanbois seem to be like those schools who give out certificates to pupils JUST FOR TURNING UP TO SCHOOL - no I'm really not kidding - going to school everyday AS YOU'RE BLOODY SUPPOSED TO, gets you an "attendance certificate".

You (fanbois collectively) are also just as guilty of acting like most politicians around the world who will argue against almost everything, even when it's a good idea.

Time and again you M00ka, and eagleboy and others have displayed you don't really understand what's going on here, and what some of us are trying to acheive - however just as I came to understand that the SDC were actually doing quite a few things for reasons that escaped most peoples understanding, that were aimed at highlighting just how flawed some of the game mechanics and systems were, because nothing highlights a flaw more than shoving it in someones face, repeatedly - you too can come to understand you and I and few remainign complainers only want the same thing:

For Elite Dangerous to be what it can and should be.

Sadly I don't think even Sir David Braben thinks that way anymore. (one of the few times I've been respectful enough to use his full name and title) - I've made no secret of the fact that 1984 Elite literally saved my life, your commitment to the franchise by comparison, pales into insignificance.

(ps can't be bothered to fix the typos and grammer - I'm off to play NMS - steam ID rafezetter88 https://steamcommunity.com/search/users/#text=rafezetter (no surprise there) add me if you want and we'll boogie, everyone's welcome, even you m00ka if you keep a civil tongue.)

PPS yes that's definitely me, not trolling, it'll be confirmed by my steam avatar, you might recognise it, yes that's a genuine 1984 Elite rank badge, yes it's mine.
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An honest and smart post which shows the ipocrisy which plauge this forum brought by fanboy and people in bad faith.

Virtuall rep to it.
 

Barking_Mad

Barking_Mad
Rafe Zetter said:
Would like to give you rep for this because in all other game development it's spot on....... but....... in the case of ED there was a thing called the DDF, maybe you've heard of it?

Just in case you haven't, it was an entire other section of forum where the players (backers then in reality) gave ideas and feedback on FDev's design suggestions pre-alpha and DURING THE ENTIRE ALPHA, BETA AND GAMMA STAGES.

FDev almost completely ignored all the feedback and "maybe this is a better way to do it" ideas - the majority coming from older gamers AND most importantly coders and people in the software industry.
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1) DDF was not a "give us an idea and it will make it into the game" forum. The clue is in the name "discussion forum". That said Im sure the feedback of the design was taken into account and implemented where Frontier deemed it necessary. Did stuff not make it in? Sure. Should it have done? Possibly - possibly not. Lastly,

FDev almost completely ignored all the feedback
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Unless you've gone through every post and seen where feedback was or was not taken into account it's just hyperbole. And it's a rather convoluted way of saying "they didnt ignore all the feedback."

Even when they were told point blank that certain decisions would lead to bad outcomes and the kind of bad gameplay that makes people ask for refunds, IN CAPS, repeatedly, over and over and over again - they went ahead and did it anyway as they wanted to, and it became a huge steaming fetid pile of guano as predicted - the C&P / griefing / station ramming / noob start "instant death" zone situation being one of the most obvious and FDev only took a second pass at 3 years later. (and still borked it.)

and just to twist the knife - all the DDF members had PAID £300 FOR THAT PRIVILEDGE to, and I quote "be a design DECISISON forum member" with the emphasis for most people on DECISION.
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For clarity the Design Discussion Forum

"Discussion in the DDF was closely focused on proposal documents written by Frontier staff as part of the game development process, which were then posted for discussion. Frontier have stated that all posts in the DDF were read by the development team, and developers frequently engaged in discussions and dialogue on the forum, sometimes starting polls to gauge community feeling. However, the final decision on all aspects of development remained with Frontier."
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As I said, Frontier would admit to not getting everything right. If I'd have plonked all those DDF contributions into the game, it would be wrong in many different ways. The idea that 'all they had to so was do as other people said' is a lovely piece of hindsight, but development doesn't work like that.

It's a very unfortunate but true reality that for quite a few sections of the game, FDev have demonstrated time and again that they are either bad listeners who don't take the advice from the people they are making the game for - like a car designer who insists on putting 2 different sized wheels (so you have to carry TWO spares not 1), an underpowered engine and no storage space on a car; or they are developers who utterly lacked the necessary expertise to deliver at the time (which isn't uncommon)**, BUT who've also learned very little about WHAT makes a good game and gameplay, and how to deliver that in the four years since.... and truthfully I think it's both.
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There's lots of examples of stuff in Elite that has made it into the game from feedback - but Frontier aren't beholden to explain every design choice they make.

** Hello Games were also massively guilty of this, but have learned and grown as a dev house to a point where the NEXT expansion has almost entirely wiped out the negatives from TWO years ago. By comparison ED players and followers are STILL COMPLAINING ABOUT THE SAME BROKEN MECHANICS IN THE GAME FOUR YEARS LATER.
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Hello Games didn't take any feedback when creating the game. Maybe if they'd have listened to you it wouldn't have taken 2 years to put it right.

That's how this argument works - right?
 

babelfisch

babelfisch
StuartGT said:
NMS wasn't abandoned by its creators. After the game's Aug 2016 release HG finished developing and released three major updates prior to Jul 2018's NEXT update:

  • Foundation, Nov 2016 - New game modes, base building, farming, freighters.
  • Pathfinder, Mar 2017 - Ground vehicles, base sharing, ship specialisations, weapon upgrades, graphical overhaul.
  • Atlas Rises, Aug 2017 - New 30hr story mode, new worlds, crashed freighters, a mission system, terrain editing, portals.
Meanwhile, the vast majority of the playerbase did abandon NMS. Average concurrent users From Steamchart's table:
  • Aug 2016 = 36,976
  • Sep 2016 to Jun 2018 = 1,247 (with 15 of those months having <1k concurrent average)
  • Jul 2018 = 14,554
  • Last 30 days = 37,045
The NEXT update brought many players back and new players in, reaching 46% (96,954 on 29 Jul 2018) of the launch-week's peak (212,321 on 12 Aug 2016). From that recent 97k peak, the daily peak has dropped 80% to 20k yesterday.
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Abandoned (on this forum) doesn't mean what you think it means. FDEV allegedly abandoned ED and yet they are still releasing updates for it.
 

znôrt

znôrt
ZeeWolf said:
###AMAZING FORUM POST FIX BUG LIST RELEASE 1.7 ALPHA###

1. Changed "An email" to "a forum post"
2. Added exciting bug list to email post
3. Added this line
4. Changed 1.3 to 1.4 making this the 1.5 post release
5. Clicked the save button. Fixed!!!!
6. Added a space under the title for this list
7. Made the title bold
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wut? no refactor?? :O
 

Shinji Ikari

Shinji Ikari
Genar-Hofoen said:
I'm pretty certain I remember the explanation from FDEV for the difficulty in being able to properly change HUD colours, was that the game uses various colour layers, and the layer used by the HUD was shared by other graphic parts of the game (e.g. the UI including avatar colours), and that for reasons, they are limited to using this layer, or that that layer is somehow limited.

That's just from memory - it was a dev reply post in some thread from years ago.
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This explains why when we change HUD colours the mission boards also change colour.

Stigbob said:
If you don't like ED you should stop playing it and leave the forum.
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Or ask what's going on.
 

Franc Kaos

Franc Kaos
Ian Phillips said:
...
Just wondering: how are the orbits of planets are coming along in NMS?
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Ooh, burn! :)

Barking_Mad said:
...
So in all that 2 years of time before releasing Next what exactly were HG doing? Platting fog? Cruising round the med? They were silent for a long time, something which FDev get hammered for, but now the manure in the HG garden has come up roses and their silence paid off and gamers rejoice and hail HG as the Great New Dev Kings. Huzzah! What a weird and fickle bunch gamers are.
...
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Releasing other major updates. The Next update merely turned the game into what they'd originally be promoting, inc multiplayer (no matter that Eagleboy refutes its existence), and... other stuff - still no orbital mechanics unfortunately (which leaves me disinterested in the game so not really sure why I'm defending it). I do know that in the two years they reduced the grind, improved the flight model and introduced SRVs (of different types), big cruiser ownership and base building thru three different updates, Foundation, Pathfinder & Atlas Rises (which I believe introduced a 30 ish hour plot with storylines and quests).
 

Cmdr Eagleboy

Cmdr Eagleboy
Flowey said:
Thargoids? Kickstarter or newseller features that are not here?
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If you call it a hype I have exciting new product to sell you. LEP 'suggestions' weren't Kickstarter promises and FD is so shy to talk about them that they won't even confirm openly they work on space legs and atmospherics, despite doing so.

Most of 'hype' in 'space sim' genre is done by players themselves.
 

Shinji Ikari

Shinji Ikari
Cmdr Eagleboy said:
If you call it a hype I have exciting new product to sell you. LEP 'suggestions' weren't Kickstarter promises and FD is so shy to talk about them that they won't even confirm openly they work on space legs and atmospherics, despite doing so.

Most of 'hype' in 'space sim' genre is done by players themselves.
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You don't need to promise something to cause hype, not at all.
 

Kubicide

Kubicide
Rafe Zetter said:
and neither do you, even though you try, again and again and again and again and again and again (and again, see above ^^^, oh the irony) - but maybe you should pay a bit more attention around here instead of rabidly defending everything without actually READING any of it.

Do you know WHY I've been so visibly vocal and it looks like I'm the "only one complaining" for four years?

Because all the others have left - given up, walked away from ED and FDev as a lost cause, irredeemable and forever broken. I can name one backer who has personally confirmed to me that he backed the game for MORE THAN £10,000 GBP, but he walked away 2 years ago.

There are forum members who had spent YEARS ont htis forum BEFORE the ED kickstarter talking about a 4th Elite game and how amazing that would be, with all the new game engines and computer power.

Where are they now? well, quite a few left after offlinegate, disgusted by how much they had to fight just to get a refund they were legally entitled to; the rest? Well they just drifted off one by one, usually not long after FDev released content that turned out to be shabby and half baked.

Very VERY occasionally I see them pop back and post, possibly to see if FDev have managed to redeem themselves or maybe out of pure morbid curiosity, who knows, but most of the oppostion to your fanboy club has gone.

You might beleive there are less complaints now because FDev are doing a better job, and to some exrtent that is true, you'll even see ME praise them on occasion if you dig hard enough, but you don't make somethign great by saying "that'll do" and walking off.

What you and all the other fanbois don't seem to understand is that the "complainers" are fanbois who REFUSE to accept mediocre, we are actually on the SAME SIDE fighting the SAME FIGHT, but we are the ones pushing FDev TO MAKE ED THE BEST IT CAN BE, because the Elite franchise is THE PROGENITOR, the seed from whence this genre grew, yet it is being overtaken and overshadowed by the hungry and committed, with less money and less resources and the worst part is, FDev can see this and seemingly do little.

So while you won't like this, the truth is that all the rabid fanbois who praise everything FDev does, regardless of quality, while it might make you and them feel good, you're not actually doing them any favors.

Fanbois seem to be like those schools who give out certificates to pupils JUST FOR TURNING UP TO SCHOOL - no I'm really not kidding - going to school everyday AS YOU'RE BLOODY SUPPOSED TO, gets you an "attendance certificate".

You (fanbois collectively) are also just as guilty of acting like most politicians around the world who will argue against almost everything, even when it's a good idea.

Time and again you M00ka, and eagleboy and others have displayed you don't really understand what's going on here, and what some of us are trying to acheive - however just as I came to understand that the SDC were actually doing quite a few things for reasons that escaped most peoples understanding, that were aimed at highlighting just how flawed some of the game mechanics and systems were, because nothing highlights a flaw more than shoving it in someones face, repeatedly - you too can come to understand you and I and few remainign complainers only want the same thing:

For Elite Dangerous to be what it can and should be.

Sadly I don't think even Sir David Braben thinks that way anymore. (one of the few times I've been respectful enough to use his full name and title) - I've made no secret of the fact that 1984 Elite literally saved my life, your commitment to the franchise by comparison, pales into insignificance.

(ps can't be bothered to fix the typos and grammer - I'm off to play NMS - steam ID rafezetter88 https://steamcommunity.com/search/users/#text=rafezetter (no surprise there) add me if you want and we'll boogie, everyone's welcome, even you m00ka if you keep a civil tongue.)

PPS yes that's definitely me, not trolling, it'll be confirmed by my steam avatar, you might recognise it, yes that's a genuine 1984 Elite rank badge, yes it's mine.
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Great post. Hope it sinks in for those that really need to step back and understand that the forums are full with posts of discontentment for good reasons. But this message will likely fall on deaf ears.
 
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