How? You don't need Frontier for that, it's already been created.
Why does my 34th century spaceship have no autopilot OR how do you accept the hyperjump grind?
- Thread starter sc_neo
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How? You don't need Frontier for that, it's already been created.
Everything is a slippery slope if you try hard enough. No one wants Elite to play itself, but travel is its own barrier to gameplay at times. You aren't going to convince anyone by, not only going down the rabbit hole, but driving a super car down it.
And autopilot just makes it easier for us. To code other aspects of the game.
No to any kind of autopilot for me. I'm against any kind of automation in games.
Jumping should require more skill IMO. Initiating a high wake should be like flying in the jet of a neutron star for 10 seconds.
I'm okay with wormholes, jump gates or to increase the bloody jump range, though.
Jumping should require more skill IMO. Initiating a high wake should be like flying in the jet of a neutron star for 10 seconds.
I'm okay with wormholes, jump gates or to increase the bloody jump range, though.
I don't see how them adding something that's already been done unofficially, officially, makes it easier for you to do things unofficially. The autopilot created outside of the game already does more than what I'm asking for in an autopilot...
Maybe we could have an automatic credit-generator too?
Leave the game running and it just gives you, say, Cr30m per hour?
Anybody who's in favour of an autopilot care to explain why this isn't also acceptable?
Well, they're different things. Having a computer make jumps for you until you need to refuel is far removed from just having the game toss 30M credits per hour into your account. Now if we had mechanics to support passive income, like having to build and maintain a trade empire like the X series or planetary exploitation like Eve, then we can talk about the idea and how to balance it. Of course, we can keep spiraling down the slippery slope, making absurd arguments instead of productive ones along the way, to keep in overall theme of the forum too.
Some time ago there was a suggestion for an autopilot which could automate jumping, but only for routes through systems you had already honked. Thus, it would be useful in the bubble and for returns from long trips, but not for exploring. I'm not sure I'd use it, but I thought it sounded like a good compromise.
Well, yes.
To ask for something that will remove the effort required to achieve things certainly is absurd.
Firstly, I guess you have to define what people are asking for; presumably either in-system autopilots or inter-system autopilots.
With regard to in-system autopilots, I guess that probably wouldn't be a big deal.
As long as you're still flying in regular SC then it's not going to help you avoid any hazards or achieve anything you couldn't already do.
I'm sure all the people rabidly farming passenger missions would love the idea but, frankly, if they've already got a joystick/controller with a decent centre-stop, an autopilot isn't going to give them much of an extra advantage.
As for an inter-system autopilot, I wouldn't be against the idea of it in systems that you've already explored.
Basically, you jump in and it immediately looks for the nav-buoy.
If it finds it (because you've been there before), the journey can continue.
If it doesn't find one, the ship comes to a dead stop and sits there.
There's also the issue of drawbacks to create compromise.
If you're using a DC, for example, it doesn't care about you getting scanned.
If you're smuggling contraband and you use a DC you're leaving yourself vulnerable to getting scanned and fined.
And then there's the less quantifiable drawbacks, such as docking taking longer (sometimes it puts you in a "queue" for several minutes) and the possibility of collisions or failed docking attempts too.
Even if we assume any inter-system autopilot doesn't have any bugs which cause you ship to fly into stars and melt, there needs to be some kind of drawback to using one.
Perhaps set it up so that your ship can only make 20Ly jumps regardless of it's regular jump range and set it up so your ship has to navigate to the nav-buoy in each system before making it's next jump?
That way you'd be spending a considerable time in each system between jumps, thus giving pirates, bounty-hunters or mission-related opponents a chance to interdict you.
As for an unlimited inter-system autopilot that would, effectively, allow you to get to Beagle point just by plotting a course and then leaving the game alone for a couple of days...
[video=youtube;pQlPjUSj7no]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQlPjUSj7no[/video]
Whatever, I guess you didn't read anything I've written beyond your first reply to me. I'm not explaining it again, but know you're off base in your replies to me because I didn't ask for unlimited, I didn't ask for effort less, I didn't ask for anything crazy. There is no effort in travel already. Just forget it man, for christ sake, pointless to argue with people who are responding to things you didn't say and aren't interested in any nuance beyond the OP that I didn't agree to in the first place. I'm glad you decided to put in some caveats of your own int he middle, but when you throw in the other garbage it makes it hard to be interested in continuing any constructive dialog.
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In that case, I guess I was wasting my time writing a big, long, post offering a variety of alternatives as a means of indulging in discussion.
If we're not bothering with that, put me down as a "no thanks" and shove your autopilot where the sun don't shine.
I think I already told you how far you can get without refueling.
You post made me think of a few things, the first is that is you were to allow AP in hyperspace, you would be limited to the point in the galaxy map where the last refueling star is available. That made me think of a few other things:
1. Your ship heats up with each jump so there will need to be a cooldown time to avoid damage. It may not seem like much but if you jump in quick succession without a cooldown you'll overheat so the AP will need to account for that.
2. If the ship is attacked/interdicted during cooldown it will need to auto-submit. The ship would be at the mercy of the interdictor either way but better to submit and autogenerate a message that the ship is flying under autonomous control.
3. Any anomaly like dropping into a neutron star, white dwarf, or between close binary systems might damage or overheat the ship during cooldown or the end of the jump and require dropping to normal space, possibly into some failsafe mode.
4. In any case like these or other emergency situations, the ship will need to raise a significant alarm to the pilot so that they can resume full control.
5. AP in hyperspace would only be allowed from system to systems you have already visited, if any point in a plotted course is an unexplored (star not scanned) or not already known system (i.e. must already be viewable on the galaxy map), AP would only function up to the last explored system. This isn't that different than most game's fast travel implementations, you can only fast travel to places you've been to.
As far as AP in-system, I'm okay with it assuming a system has a central nav beacon and the location has a beacon. The operational distance of the AP could be limited, maybe under 500,000 ls. The flight path would be in the normal shipping lane so it would be less than ideal for avoiding interdiction. Some of the same damage mitigating procedures might be needed like auto submitting to an interdiction. Although in this case an auto-eject-all cargo might prevent damage from pirates. (just kidding on this one)
Like some though, I think the AP is the wrong solution to a problem some players complain about. If travel is boring, there needs to be gameplay to make traveling the long distances engaging, not automation to allow the player to ignore the long distances. In a galaxy sized playground that gameplay is going to be hard to accomplish. I don't have any good answers here as I play ED to relax and fly around the bubble; I like the long distances, what is boring to others is calming to me. I have other games that are engaging, SkyRim, ESO, Halo, Destiny, etc., I can't just take a break, I always have to be the hero, saving the world, helping people that should be able to do things themselves but apparently are unable to do anything but wait for me to save them.
Ummm that wasn't a post offering a variety of alternatives, that was a post offering crippling ideas to make the AP unusable because you prefer to stuck a tongue at the idea. Plus you started from the position that "it is absurd" and just rolled from there. Also, Dbrn is right, if you were reading the thread you would know that those drawbacks had already been outlined, either by him, me or other posters. To reiterate: prone to failure (stops in normal space), slower - follows safety protocols (cooldowns and such), refuels slower (manages ship heat)... I don't understand that "my way or the highway" approach. Certain experiment with monkeys, ladder, bananas and cold water comes to mind. I could go to beagle point using current mechanics, but it would be a waste of time so huge, that I flat out refuse to do it under current conditions. There is no reward for this (I am sure everything in 50kLy radius is mapped lol), and the cash vs time invested is peanuts compared to the bubble. There is nothing to "discover" also. So... no, unless they flesh out exploration to make it truly worthwhile (which I highly doubt will happen with q4 update).
As to your previous question to me, Dbrn already answered to it, but I'll bite anyway. It is ridiculous that the game doesn't offer any means of passively sustaining your fleet and you're forced to do board hopping and constant "opportunity hunting". Take X-series for example. As you gain credits, you can build a fleet and do your trade remotely. Then construct a space station. And build an empire at the end. It is not realistic that a person with billions Cr in the account still has to "work" instead of taking missions for pure pleasure of doing them :> Managing that trade fleet would be a nice pastime on such long journeys. But but everyone can't have billions! Well but they do, right now, and nothing to do with all this cash. Let them build their empires, and clash with each other. Emergent content for all, even soloers, because you could at long last influence the galaxy a bit. But this is as related to autopilot as your snide question.
Why not make it like the SLF pilot! you need a crew, you need to pay them, they can perform basic tasks, like jumping from star to star.
There are no skill needed to jump from star to star, only a sadomasochistic itch that need to be scratched, there are no bonuses or advances towards other players, just like the DC, you can use it or not, I've lost some ships due to DC freaked out, but I still like the feature.
No one can honestly say jumping 800 times is fun, and it's time we make this game more interesting in it's core gameplay.
Exploration is about finding interesting places, not about smashing the jump button 800 times! I would say keep the travelling time, however give the player an option to hire an NPC helmsman to make all these boring jumps.
There are no skill needed to jump from star to star, only a sadomasochistic itch that need to be scratched, there are no bonuses or advances towards other players, just like the DC, you can use it or not, I've lost some ships due to DC freaked out, but I still like the feature.
No one can honestly say jumping 800 times is fun, and it's time we make this game more interesting in it's core gameplay.
Exploration is about finding interesting places, not about smashing the jump button 800 times! I would say keep the travelling time, however give the player an option to hire an NPC helmsman to make all these boring jumps.
How I see it. It caters to bot programmer that would make credits for them. In one of the MMO'S I have played I would run 3 games at the same time. One bot farmed food and another bot cooked while the last bot would kill NPC and farm for ore. All basic info.
Today's bot use pictures to help control the bots. We can look at Elite the compass and fuel tank and next location would be monitored. And we have a basic autopilot.
Do I want a autopilot. Only if they can stop the bots. If not no I do not want bots
How do you explore systems when the autopilot is jumping all the way? Exploration is not: going somewhere as fast as fast as possible. Its lookin for interesting places. And its part of the core gameplay.
You do realise that you're championing for wrong tool? The presence or absence of autopilot shouldn't have anything to do with bots. Also, if one is determined enough and has programming experience and time to pour into the project, it will be written anyway. 3rd party autopilot has been done already, a few times if I recall. I still would love to see it included in the game though.
As for Brian and Lysan suggestions - they have been proposed and "discussed" (it's more like shotting down, than discussing, again, monkeys, bananas, ladder, water experiment) in this thread. I like the idea of NPC crew performing piloting tasks, including cheaper ship transfer and "moving fleet" operations. I was the first to propose the safety cooldowns to keep manual jumping still viable, and buckyballing still a thing.
Whether or not FDevs implements it, it would be a good Quality of Life feature, whether one likes it or not. Because the current alternative is just atrocious.
Re-read the thread. We made a distinction between TRAVEL and EXPLORATION long ago. Yet people still confuse these two things. Our proposed autopilot can't even honk along the way.
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that is fine..... not much point having discussion forums if we all agree with everything
I play elite as a game where i get to simulate being a pilot of a space ship, so having an audiobook in the background for the more routine stuff i am fine with - just like in real life where i may have the radio on (i draw the line at audiobooks as they take a little too much concentration - i am happy to take a rebuy in a game if i switch off, less so crashing my car
)if i am doing something more intense, the book goes off.
I play ETS2 the same way, i always have a good rock radio station on.
All of that said
(btw i didnt mention jumpgates either - however now you mention it, IF FD decided that enough is enough it is time to allow automatic travel to some key systems in the game - lets say colonia for discussions sake.... IF the choice was select destination then log out for 10 hrs OR have a jump gate, for arguments sake from 2 points one near sol, one near colonia powered by a neutron star at each end, combined with a long term (say up to 6 month) community goal to build the gates at both sides....
I would take the jump game, and write it into the lore.... because there is gameplay potential there..... with missions to continually upkeep the gates, as well as onces to try to damage them, or small possibility of miss jumps which dump us randomly somewhere between the 2 if the gates are in less than tip top condition (so best have a fuel scoop when using just in case)
far better than select destination then log out and go to bed (imo)
To stop people using it all the time they could even write in to the lore that the pilots get a wacking great dose of radiation doing it, and that continual exposure will cause harm, so medically we have to wait X number of months before using it again.
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The problem is you are so narrow minded. It funny. I'm looking at current bots. If autopilot added People who controls bots has one less thing they have to worry about and they can work on other parts of the bot programs. But you don't see this as a issue.