Modes Why does PvP in open even exist ???

[Jockey79]

PowerPlay is competitive, and part of competition is about intercepting opponents.

But you already know this.

Point is, right now, Solo players are indeed having huge impact on PowerPlay. I agree with you here: It's also precisely that, why they deserve no trophy. Because they're taking all the rewards for absolutely no risk. That's bad game design anywhere, be it sports, board games, or computer platforms.

2 players on opposite teams trying to fill PvE buckets is a competitive system, one that does not rely on being able to smack your opponent.
My kids sports day is competitive and no one gets to smack anyone else.

Competitive does not mean "pew pew".
Is PP competitive, yes. But it does not even reward PvP, so those PvE players in Solo are doing more work towards the goal than you are in Open with PvP.
So they deserve all the rewards and people slacking off in Open deserve a time out.

If you want the only content Frontier have ever made that rewards competitive PvP, i'll direct your attention to CQC.
No place for PvE there, no Solo Mode either.

Why do you have to call every opinion you don't agree with "outright wrong", "rubbish", "insane" ect.
You wonder why people lose their cool with you.
It is very difficult to stay calm when having arguments with you. You are very rude sir.

All your arguments are based on how the game is right now and these people are trying to express the way they would like to see it changed. Our opinions on how we would like to see the game improved are not "outright wrong", they're just opinions dude. You don't have to be so rude, you can simply just disagree.

My arguments are based on how the game was marketed before you could buy it, how it was developed and how it was sold. Which is exactly what you bought.
Everyone being able to play all the content, regardless of mode or platform was a deliberate design choice and by buying the game you accept that choice.
Otherwise, why buy it if you don't like it?

Frontier pitched, developed and made the mode system, on purpose. I see PvP'ers coming here saying it's broken when it is working exactly how it was intended so they are are factually wrong.
What is broken is the sense of entitlement PvP'ers are showing because they bought the wrong game. This one was never made for forced PvP, it always has been optional and you knew this before buying it.
Star Citizen is a forced PvP space game, EVE-Online is a forced PvP space game, why not go and play a game you'll actually enjoy knowing everyone is right there with you?

Trying to morph this into one of them is not only pointless (due to technical reasons), but it is insulting and rude to those of us who have been here from the start and enjoy the game as it was marketed, designed and sold.

And even when I tried to extend an olive branch to you 24 hours ago, you went right back to your foot stamping and demanding people not be allowed content if they are in Solo / PGs.
People only have to go back a page or two to see that.

 

[Jockey79]

Lol, you whining about 'rude posts'! Oh, the irony!
Jockey's been very nice to you, despite you repeatedly being excessively rude to him.

When I see the type of bias & projection, which you for example exhibit a lot, I sometimes call it out.
And this is one example where you started the 'calling people out', projecting your own rudeness to Jockey. Such hypocrisy.

Thanks, but he is not self aware.
You seen me try yesterday, it was futile.

PvP'er cannot understand why PvE'ers, in a PvE mode can play PvE content and demands it stops.

That line right there, applies to any mixed mode game I've ever played.
Same story, same arguments, same lack of self awareness.

What's really funny if you get the time, head over to Naval Action forums.
It's just like Elite: Dangerous, but without the mode system - so an Open Only version of Elite, but on water in ships.
Guess what the biggest complaints were last time I was there....
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

Spoiler

PvP'ers not able to get PvP because the gaming world is too big and they cannot find people to pirate etc (cannot find those pesky PvE'ers who invaded their PvP game)...... and it's not even as big as Elite!!
They don't have 400 billion places to go LMAO
"Open Only" really solves everything doesn't it LMAO

 

[Deleted member 110222]

2 players on opposite teams trying to fill PvE buckets is a competitive system, one that does not rely on being able to smack your opponent.
My kids sports day is competitive and no one gets to smack anyone else.

Competitive does not mean "pew pew".
Is PP competitive, yes. But it does not even reward PvP, so those PvE players in Solo are doing more work towards the goal than you are in Open with PvP.
So they deserve all the rewards and people slacking off in Open deserve a time out.

If you want the only content Frontier have ever made that rewards competitive PvP, i'll direct your attention to CQC.
No place for PvE there, no Solo Mode either.



My arguments are based on how the game was marketed before you could buy it, how it was developed and how it was sold. Which is exactly what you bought.
Everyone being able to play all the content, regardless of mode or platform was a deliberate design choice and by buying the game you accept that choice.
Otherwise, why buy it if you don't like it?

Frontier pitched, developed and made the mode system, on purpose. I see PvP'ers coming here saying it's broken when it is working exactly how it was intended so they are are factually wrong.
What is broken is the sense of entitlement PvP'ers are showing because they bought the wrong game. This one was never made for forced PvP, it always has been optional and you knew this before buying it.
Star Citizen is a forced PvP space game, EVE-Online is a forced PvP space game, why not go and play a game you'll actually enjoy knowing everyone is right there with you?

Trying to morph this into one of them is not only pointless (due to technical reasons), but it is insulting and rude to those of us who have been here from the start and enjoy the game as it was marketed, designed and sold.

And even when I tried to extend an olive branch to you 24 hours ago, you went right back to your foot stamping and demanding people not be allowed content if they are in Solo / PGs.
People only have to go back a page or two to see that.

Actually it does reward PvP.

Every PowerPlay transport I blow up is a hindrance to the opposition, and helps my faction by grace of slowing the opposition. Not all rewards are credits.

 

[Jockey79]

Actually it does reward PvP.

Every PowerPlay transport I blow up is a hindrance to the opposition, and helps my faction by grace of slowing the opposition. Not all rewards are credits.

And how much time have you wasted looking for one person to kill?

You're doing nothing to help advance your side, in the hopes they have less people pushing PvE.
And each time you stop that one person, their skill gets better and will learn to avoid you, until you're failing to stop them - so now you're doing nothing and they still manage to dock.

PvP in PP is self defeating. You're doing less towards helping your power than those fast haulers moving stuff about.

And we've not even touched that due to instancing there will be folks you'll never see to stop, plus the block feature, plus folks with no morals who understand networking / Zone Alarm.
PvP is the least effective method to defend in PP.

And Frontier actually had the cheek to say it was PvP content.
Even if it was Open Only, loads of folks would still sail right by you and your mates and there is nothing you could do about it.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

And how much time have you wasted looking for one person to kill?

You're doing nothing to help advance your side, in the hopes they have less people pushing PvE.
And each time you stop that one person, their skill gets better and will learn to avoid you, until you're failing to stop them - so now you're doing nothing and they still manage to dock.

PvP in PP is self defeating. You're doing less towards helping your power than those fast haulers moving stuff about.

And we've not even touched that due to instancing there will be folks you'll never see to stop, plus the block feature, plus folks with no morals who understand networking / Zone Alarm.
PvP is the least effective method to defend in PP.

And Frontier actually had the cheek to say it was PvP content.
Even if it was Open Only, loads of folks would still sail right by you and your mates and there is nothing you could do about it.

Im sorry but this is the most ignorant thing youve ever said.

If you're going to throw your weight around at least have the common courtesy to know what you're talking about.

People work crime scenes and conflict zones, they also transport media.

During both of those activities its crucial you stop the other teams from completing their merit turn in. Catching them in the act, on the way to a station.

You kill them they lose their merits, you kill them they lose their cargo, they may have even paid for to fast track time.

Jockey, Do you have any experience in this game? Or do you just live on these forums telling everyone they're wrong?

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Actually it does reward PvP.

Every PowerPlay transport I blow up is a hindrance to the opposition, and helps my faction by grace of slowing the opposition. Not all rewards are credits.

You aren't gonna slow down much nobody with a kill unless they happen to be unable to pay the insurance.

 

[Jockey79]

Im sorry but this is the most ignorant thing youve ever said.

If you're going to throw your weight around at least have the common courtesy to know what you're talking about.

People work crime scenes and conflict zones, they also transport media.

During both of those activities its crucial you stop the other teams from completing their merit turn in. Catching them in the act, on the way to a station.

You kill them they lose their merits, you kill them they lose their cargo, they may have even paid for to fast track time.

Jockey, Do you have any experience in this game? Or do you just live on these forums telling everyone they're wrong?

Clearly I know more about the game and the technical side than you.
Because a chimp could play open mode and never, ever be pulled over or kill by someone they didn't want to interact with.

PvP is 100% optional, so PvP attacking or defending is the least useful arguments or ideas within the game for the BGS, CGs, PMFs or PP.
And even if someone isn't paying attention and you kill them once through their own complacency, you'll only see them again if they let you.

Plus do you not watch the YouTube channels of your own friends?
All those tutorials on how to stay alive without any real effort.
Your own mates keep banging on how easy it is to avoid PvP in Open.

So your wasting time with PvP while folks are handing in merits all around you.
And you claim to know how it works. lol!

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Clearly I know more about the game and the technical side than you.
Because a chimp could play open mode and never, ever be pulled over or kill by someone they didn't want to interact with.

PvP is 100% optional, so PvP attacking or defending is the least useful arguments or ideas within the game for the BGS, CGs, PMFs or PP.
And even if someone isn't paying attention and you kill them once through their own complacency, you'll only see them again if they let you.

Plus do you not watch the YouTube channels of your own friends?
All those tutorials on how to stay alive without any real effort.
Your own mates keep banging on how easy it is to avoid PvP in Open.

So your wasting time with PvP while folks are handing in merits all around you.
And you claim to know how it works. lol!

Oh, well since my other post got removed.

Tell me smart guy.

How do you explain the people dying or combat logging in these videos?

[video=youtube;h-51_yw9_w8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-51_yw9_w8[/video]

[video=youtube;0oT-wUJ-oa8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oT-wUJ-oa8[/video]

Both Vettes are end game ships. Takes some time to get them and outfit them.

And yet these guys here dont follow any basic guides that my buddies put out.

Just because people have the outfitting. It doesnt mean they possess the skill.

Everyone has room to improve and adjust.

Enjoy.

 

[Jockey79]

Oh, well since my other post got removed.

Tell me smart guy.

How do you explain the people dying or combat logging in these videos?





Both Vettes are end game ships. Takes some time to get them and outfit them.

And yet these guys here dont follow any basic guides that my buddies put out.

Just because people have the outfitting. It doesnt mean they possess the skill.

Everyone has room to improve and adjust.

Enjoy.

You were not the only one to have posts removed
I thought we were being quite well behaved and polite towards each other, seems I was wrong

People combat logging are not worth my time or effort - they have a mode system, playing open to combat log should be a perma ban, end of.

As for people getting killed, what's your point?
PvP is optional, if people choose to test their skill, good on them.
If people choose to play Solo, good on them.
that's the whole point behind the mode system, I can play all content of the game with or without real people shooting at me.

And while I agree people have room to improve, I'd have to prefix that with "some" people have room to improve.
Some are just lost causes and will never get better

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Clearly I know more about the game and the technical side than you.
Because a chimp could play open mode and never, ever be pulled over or kill by someone they didn't want to interact with.

PvP is 100% optional, so PvP attacking or defending is the least useful arguments or ideas within the game for the BGS, CGs, PMFs or PP.
And even if someone isn't paying attention and you kill them once through their own complacency, you'll only see them again if they let you.

Plus do you not watch the YouTube channels of your own friends?
All those tutorials on how to stay alive without any real effort.
Your own mates keep banging on how easy it is to avoid PvP in Open.

So your wasting time with PvP while folks are handing in merits all around you.
And you claim to know how it works. lol!

That's a specious argument.
Less effective /= not at all effective.
That's like saying if you can't fly a Cutter/T9, don't bother.

Especially since many of the Cmdrs in question don't know how to escape, apparently.

 

[Rampant]

You were not the only one to have posts removed
I thought we were being quite well behaved and polite towards each other, seems I was wrong

People combat logging are not worth my time or effort - they have a mode system, playing open to combat log should be a perma ban, end of.

As for people getting killed, what's your point?
PvP is optional, if people choose to test their skill, good on them.
If people choose to play Solo, good on them.
that's the whole point behind the mode system, I can play all content of the game with or without real people shooting at me.

And while I agree people have room to improve, I'd have to prefix that with "some" people have room to improve.
Some are just lost causes and will never get better

When you say "lost causes" I wonder whether you are imagining *player incompetence* or *player just not interested or motivated*?+

 

[Sylveria]

Everyone has room to improve and adjust.

Except for you, apparently.

Instead of "adjusting" you keep repeating the same soapbox rhetoric about how everything needs to change to suit your personal needs.

Irony defined.

You refuse to use the mechanics already in place to "defend", and simply demand it all be changed because you don't want to do it that way- yet insist that others should be engaging in direct PvP activity to defend themselves. Hypocritical much?

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

You were not the only one to have posts removed
I thought we were being quite well behaved and polite towards each other, seems I was wrong

People combat logging are not worth my time or effort - they have a mode system, playing open to combat log should be a perma ban, end of.

As for people getting killed, what's your point?
PvP is optional, if people choose to test their skill, good on them.
If people choose to play Solo, good on them.
that's the whole point behind the mode system, I can play all content of the game with or without real people shooting at me.

And while I agree people have room to improve, I'd have to prefix that with "some" people have room to improve.
Some are just lost causes and will never get better

No problem with the modes system. Some modes need proper gameplay mechanics though.

Honestly back to what I was saying before.

This has been about perception.

Rather than this being about who wants to live or die in video game activities.

The restrictions were because of the technology that was available to them at the time.

I firmly believe it was never about people's feelings, playstyle or options.

This was simply about what Fdev was capable of. Fdev as a company has been growing. Its pretty cool to watch and follow their story.

Ive said this many times before, But during their 24 hr broadcast for christmas. Braben was on talking about their growth and upcoming capabilities and technology that's available.

What wasnt possible for them then. Is possible for them now.

The developers are pretty dang awesome and have built the game based on those limitations.

When crime and punishment was reworked and when powerplay was mentioned. Its been quite clear the direction this would be going.

Im excited for it, because that game was built long ago. But held back.

I have a pretty good feeling this is the calm before the storm.

This game is about to take off. Even without open only content. Because the next expansion is around the corner.

But with it, the action, the stories and the teamwork will be fun.

Hopefully more than a screenshot simulator.

I've always known this. I've just been having fun with you guys here.

People take things so personal for some reason. Even I was subjected to it by some mobius guys when I first started. Remember just because I started to PVP. I was no longer morally recognizable.

For some reason people feelings in this game are super exploitable. Its given me the chance to be a bad guy. Without actually being a bad guy IRL.

Its given me the chance to basically create a character. That 90s kid.

But, after some threats for simple gameplay. I kind of got a little upset about it.

Im frustrated with people like you and Maynard and Agony Aunt not understanding the game after so long.

And maybe you do, for all I know some of these guys are having fun. Just like I am.

At any rate, I dont really believe you had your birthday ruined. I like giving people a hard time.

And I think you knew what you were doing there as well.

Perception is a wonderful thing. I've had a lot of fun with it. It seems like others have too in this Lull.

Void Opals are pretty dank. Hope you're making them millions. Mining has been really worth it. Credit sinks are on the way.

Cant wait for PVP to honestly be fun. Instead of the toxic salt fest it is now. Im not saying it wont be salty anymore. Because its going to be. Ill make sure of it.

It just wont be a "grief" anymore. At least people will understand why they are being attacked.

That's all I ever wanted. But when people started getting emotional because they didn't understand the game or the same person felt griefed after 3 years I found that to be rather odd and frustrating.

So instead I've learned to have fun with it. This has been my game.

Cant wait until they finally balance some of this stuff. There are layers of this game people haven't even seen yet.

Like wing comps and conflict zones. Farming and attacking at the same time. Aggro tables and and legit crime and punishment being used outside of "punishing the greifer".

I sincerely hope you were having fun just like I have been and aren't too invested in the actual outcome here.

As I said when I first came here 2 years ago I said the Hotel California is gonna burn to the ground. But its not because of people like Me or Maj. Its just because of what was available for Fdev to do at that time.

Everyone wants PVP to mean something more than mindless killing. But unfortunately that's what we have.

And thats why it will change.

Anyways dude, always fun screwing around here and in the game.

o7 Cmdr

 

[Jockey79]

When you say "lost causes" I wonder whether you are imagining *player incompetence* or *player just not interested or motivated*?+

Neither.

In the games I've played where I've been a PvP'er and in some where it was a PvE only game, every now and then you meet a "special person"

Someone who wants / claims / tries to be the best the game has to offer in the area they are playing (aka "best" PvP'er or "best" PvE'er)
Yet no matter how much they play, no matter how hard they try, no matter the effort they put in... they never improve, they never get better at it - they are a lost cause.

Kind of like when someone joins the forums in 2017, whines that people can play Solo/PG despite it being a design choice from 2012 and in 2019 they are still whining exactly the same way that people can use Solo/PG.

Some folks are just a lost cause.


(Disclaimer: This post is heavily laden with sarcasm and "gentle" prodding - I'm in no way insulting or being mean to any other forum member. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, despite it being wrong )

 

[m0rl0ck]

The only thing thats wrong with pvp in ED is the engineers. Remove the engineers, everyone has a level playing field, problem solved.

 

[Jockey79]

No problem with the modes system. Some modes need proper gameplay mechanics though.

Honestly back to what I was saying before.

This has been about perception.

Rather than this being about who wants to live or die in video game activities.

The restrictions were because of the technology that was available to them at the time.

I firmly believe it was never about people's feelings, playstyle or options.

This was simply about what Fdev was capable of. Fdev as a company has been growing. Its pretty cool to watch and follow their story.

Ive said this many times before, But during their 24 hr broadcast for christmas. Braben was on talking about their growth and upcoming capabilities and technology that's available.

What wasnt possible for them then. Is possible for them now.

The developers are pretty dang awesome and have built the game based on those limitations.

When crime and punishment was reworked and when powerplay was mentioned. Its been quite clear the direction this would be going.

Im excited for it, because that game was built long ago. But held back.

I have a pretty good feeling this is the calm before the storm.

This game is about to take off. Even without open only content. Because the next expansion is around the corner.

But with it, the action, the stories and the teamwork will be fun.

Hopefully more than a screenshot simulator.

I've always known this. I've just been having fun with you guys here.

People take things so personal for some reason. Even I was subjected to it by some mobius guys when I first started. Remember just because I started to PVP. I was no longer morally recognizable.



For some reason people feelings in this game are super exploitable. Its given me the chance to be a bad guy. Without actually being a bad guy IRL.

Its given me the chance to basically create a character. That 90s kid.

But, after some threats for simple gameplay. I kind of got a little upset about it.

Im frustrated with people like you and Maynard and Agony Aunt not understanding the game after so long.

And maybe you do, for all I know some of these guys are having fun. Just like I am.

At any rate, I dont really believe you had your birthday ruined. I like giving people a hard time.

And I think you knew what you were doing there as well.

Perception is a wonderful thing. I've had a lot of fun with it. It seems like others have too in this Lull.

Void Opals are pretty dank. Hope you're making them millions. Mining has been really worth it. Credit sinks are on the way.

Cant wait for PVP to honestly be fun. Instead of the toxic salt fest it is now. Im not saying it wont be salty anymore. Because its going to be. Ill make sure of it.

It just wont be a "grief" anymore. At least people will understand why they are being attacked.

That's all I ever wanted. But when people started getting emotional because they didn't understand the game or the same person felt griefed after 3 years I found that to be rather odd and frustrating.

So instead I've learned to have fun with it. This has been my game.

Cant wait until they finally balance some of this stuff. There are layers of this game people haven't even seen yet.

Like wing comps and conflict zones. Farming and attacking at the same time. Aggro tables and and legit crime and punishment being used outside of "punishing the greifer".

I sincerely hope you were having fun just like I have been and aren't too invested in the actual outcome here.

As I said when I first came here 2 years ago I said the Hotel California is gonna burn to the ground. But its not because of people like Me or Maj. Its just because of what was available for Fdev to do at that time.

Everyone wants PVP to mean something more than mindless killing. But unfortunately that's what we have.

And thats why it will change.

Anyways dude, always fun screwing around here and in the game.

o7 Cmdr

...

...

...

Have you never been taught what a paragraph is? Geez.

This is actually hurting my eyes.... though I'm not 100% sober right now, so some the blame for that could be on me.

So for now, I'll bid you good night.
And I'll have a crack at a real answer tomorrow.
Though I'll be in a bad mood and hungover. So don't expect me to be nice
And I know I'll be in a bad mood because I'll be hungover with a wife... who's going to moan at me for being hungover.

Night bud, take care.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

...

...

...

Have you never been taught what a paragraph is? Geez.

This is actually hurting my eyes.... though I'm not 100% sober right now, so some the blame for that could be on me.

So for now, I'll bid you good night.
And I'll have a crack at a real answer tomorrow.
Though I'll be in a bad mood and hungover. So don't expect me to be nice
And I know I'll be in a bad mood because I'll be hungover with a wife... who's going to moan at me for being hungover.

Night bud, take care.

Paragraphs are just sentences meshed together.

My sentences are free and have plenty of elbow space. Also wrote this on a phone. Its hard to tell what it looks like. Good lord thats bad haha.

Gnite sweet cheeks.

 

[Rampant]

Everyone wants PVP to mean something more than mindless killing. But unfortunately that's what we have.

See, here's where we have an issue.

It isn't the fact that PvP combat doesn't already "mean something", because, actually it already does mean something. In game, that is...

...the *problem*, my friend, is the sect of players who keep saying the things you've just written. And that, in my view, is the real problem here.

We have players saying that "if there was more PvP content, then they wouldn't gank and grief weaker players", which we *know* to be untrue. Regardless of the volume of PvP combat content those players would still gank and grief. It's just a cheese excuse for what they actually *want* to in game. I actually firmly believe that there would be *more* ganking and griefing, by design, and with forethought and planning, if the game was changed to fit with some of these player's suggestions for more "PvP content".

Then we have those that evangelise about changing the game in general, and changing the mode system in particular, and often wanting it to be more like Eve, or simply more like a first person shooter arena game (from the safety of their uber-engineered, combat-optimised combat vessel.)(And their wing...)

There's a LOT more I could continue typing out...

In sum, the problem isn't with the game. The problem is, in general, with the PvP combat type player who want to leverage a change in the game for nobody's benefit but their own. Don't misunderstand that comment and return with some false indignation. I didn't say that all PvP combat type players evangelise about change for their own benefit. I'm saying that those PvP combat type players that *do* evangelise about change (which would turn out to benefit nobody but that small subset of evangelists) are making this into an issue that shouldn't really be an issue if we are to consider the majority instead.

Hopefully explained well enough and not too controversial.

Slàinte Mhath

Mark H

 

[Morbad]

PvP in PP is self defeating. You're doing less towards helping your power than those fast haulers moving stuff about.

PvP is one of the only ways my CMDR can influence PP as he will never pledge to any power.

Even if it was Open Only, loads of folks would still sail right by you and your mates and there is nothing you could do about it.

Just like any blockade. Even during the peak of the Battle of the Atlantic, during the golden age of the U-boat, something north of 80% of allied shipping made it through.

You don't need to stop everyone, just enough to tip the scales.

 

[Jockey79]

PvP is one of the only ways my CMDR can influence PP as he will never pledge to any power.

You can find and kill PP NPCs faster than you can humans, which also males it more efficient.

Just like any blockade. Even during the peak of the Battle of the Atlantic, during the golden age of the U-boat, something north of 80% of allied shipping made it through.

You don't need to stop everyone, just enough to tip the scales.

You'd tip the scales faster by joining in and doing the PvE work.