Why Elite will always be better than Star Citizen: Gravity - or the lack there of.

Dahill

Dahill
[VR] Golgot said:
Friend, we know next to nothing about how (or even if) EDO will work yet. It's a bit early for victory dances on that front.

If you want to just deride SC's general struggles with gravity and reality, that's totally fine though ;)

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/iadl2s
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/iadl2s/why_artificial_gravity_plates_are_silly/


https://imgur.com/am99n3U
Source: https://i.imgur.com/am99n3U.mp4


https://imgur.com/7PSGKn2
Source: https://i.imgur.com/7PSGKn2.mp4


https://imgur.com/Bx3Svkp
Source: https://i.imgur.com/Bx3Svkp.mp4


https://imgur.com/LEG4YNi
Source: https://i.imgur.com/LEG4YNi.mp4


https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/hiai5x
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/hiai5x/heavy_precipitation_in_lorville_today/
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And I thought E:D was buggy. Lmao.
I do wish Frontier would pull some corporate espionage and steal some of the artists from SC though. Not complaining about our beloved Elite, but every time I see the ships in SC I cry inside and then go stare at my orange and turquoise and blue and red holograms as I get back to my game (not alpha). I would love the best of both worlds though.
 

dannysquid

dannysquid
Gravity is something Frontier haven't really discussed with regard to space legs that seems like a can of design worms to me! I don't think could ignore it but there would presumably be a whole load of design decisions needing to be made that other games have never really bothered with. And those decisions will probably be controversial!
 

[VR] Mad Mike

[VR] Mad Mike
Ourselfish said:
Orbital, or Centrifugal gravity when interacting in 1st person, on Orbis and Coreolis stations. Would live to see, 0g at smaller stations, and when moving around the ship while in flight. Either in Odessey or later. Reactions?
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Erm .... I take it you didn't see the 2nd Odyssey video? (Unless you know something I don't - quite possible)
 

vargata

vargata
Dutchman141 said:
Imho ED will always be better in many perspectives over SC, in being a real complete game to begin with.
Sheesh I'm so glad I picked ED over SC to invest in back in the days.
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is it? didn't notice. looks like the opposite of SC, they have so many features and fail to make it a game and release it. ED was released as a game but it failed to become anymore than a spaceship flight simulator where there is nothing really to do...
 

Ozric

Volunteer Moderator
Ozric
I don't understand the title, or how you know how gravity is going to be handled in Odyssey.

Katie Byrne said:
yeah but what about high G planets? like atm a pilot can comfortably land on and drive around 9G planets - ie - an environment where they would way 9 times what they weigh on earth

EDIT - I'm fine with this btw - not complaining, i think a lot more compromises in realism should be made for the sake of gameplay tbh. but just saying,Gravity isn't treated as realistic all the time :p
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But you are in a ship, or SRV. You are not exposed to the gravity yourself, the ship/srv can have things in place to do with their construction that can mitigate it. Though if you don't have good enough thrusters, you might just be able to survive an impact on a high g planet, but you won't ever be able to leave because you can't break the pull of gravity.

Now how high g planets are going to be handled when walking around is another thing entirely, because that will have to be on hell of a strong suit to stop your body imploding :D
 

Kaocraft

Kaocraft
Ozric said:
I don't understand the title, or how you know how gravity is going to be handled in Odyssey.


But you are in a ship, or SRV. You are not exposed to the gravity yourself, the ship/srv can have things in place to do with their construction that can mitigate it. Though if you don't have good enough thrusters, you might just be able to survive an impact on a high g planet, but you won't ever be able to leave because you can't break the pull of gravity.

Now how high g planets are going to be handled when walking around is another thing entirely, because that will have to be on hell of a strong suit to stop your body imploding :D
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Pretty sure 9G doesn't cease to be a nightmare just because you're sitting in a chair. It's unlikely that walking around in 9G will be handled any better or more realistically than it is already (or let's face it even addressed at all).

Anything you can handwave with "well uh the cockpit is constructed in such a way that yadda yadda yadda" will be dealt with exactly the same way except we'll all be asked to headcanon that the suit is full of drugs and mechanical strength augmentation and pressure valves which all perfectly flawlessly coordinate their considerable forces to counteract 9G to make it so you look act and move as if you are always in 1G; and this functionality can never be altered or disrupted no matter how much damage your suit takes.

Somehow also simultaneously for some reason these powerful augmentations won't correspondingly allow you to jump 9 times as high as a normal man when you're on a 1G planet; or 90 times as high as a normal man when you're on a .1G planet; nope you will be able to hop roughly the same amount and if you want to go higher it will all be done with your jetpack which is on a cooldown timer.
 

Katie Byrne

Katie Byrne
Ozric said:
I don't understand the title, or how you know how gravity is going to be handled in Odyssey.


But you are in a ship, or SRV. You are not exposed to the gravity yourself, the ship/srv can have things in place to do with their construction that can mitigate it. Though if you don't have good enough thrusters, you might just be able to survive an impact on a high g planet, but you won't ever be able to leave because you can't break the pull of gravity.

Now how high g planets are going to be handled when walking around is another thing entirely, because that will have to be on hell of a strong suit to stop your body imploding :D
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i'd be very interrested to hear how you think gravity can be mitigated :D

and also i think you underestimate how strong a 9G force is:
Normal humans can withstand no more than 9 g's, and even that for only a few seconds. When undergoing an acceleration of 9 g's, your body feels nine times heavier than usual, blood rushes to the feet, and the heart can't pump hard enough to bring this heavier blood to the brain. Your vision narrows to a tunnel, then goes black.

If the acceleration doesn't decrease, you will pass out and finally die. The Air Force's F-16 can produce more g's than the human body can survive. We're forced to limit the acceleration of planes and spacecraft to a level humans can survive.
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a little more - just for reference

We can withstand 5 g's for only two minutes, 3 g's for only an hour.
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source:
www.scientificamerican.com

The Jump to Light Speed Is a Real Killer

Excerpt from the book The Science of Star Wars by Jeanne Cavelos
www.scientificamerican.com www.scientificamerican.com
.
 
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Ozric

Volunteer Moderator
Ozric
Kaocraft said:
Pretty sure 9G doesn't cease to be a nightmare just because you're sitting in a chair. It's unlikely that walking around in 9G will be handled any better or more realistically than it is already (or let's face it even addressed at all).

Anything you can handwave with "well uh the cockpit is constructed in such a way that yadda yadda yadda" will be dealt with exactly the same way except we'll all be asked to headcanon that the suit is full of drugs and mechanical strength augmentation and pressure valves which all perfectly flawlessly coordinate their considerable forces to counteract 9G to make it so you look act and move as if you are always in 1G; and this functionality can never be altered or disrupted no matter how much damage your suit takes.

Somehow also simultaneously for some reason these powerful augmentations won't correspondingly allow you to jump 9 times as high as a normal man when you're on a 1G planet; or 90 times as high as a normal man when you're on a .1G planet; nope you will be able to hop roughly the same amount and if you want to go higher it will all be done with your jetpack which is on a cooldown timer.
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I have no idea how they'll handle it in Odyssey, but given your thruster efficiency on both ships and SRV is already affected by the gravity of the planet, I doubt that your jumping will be the same.
Katie Byrne said:
i'd be very interrested to hear how you think gravity can be mitigated :D

and also i think you underestimate how strong a 9G force is:



a little more - just for reference
"We can withstand 5 g's for only two minutes, 3 g's for only an hour. "
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I try not to explain it, because it's a game and once you start trying to explain you have to try and justify and then it all goes wrong :)
I think that it would make more sense that while inside something you can withstand g forces more than if you were on your own. The fact that you do black/red out in the SRV and ship while under the influence of gravity, must mean that there's some base level of protection offered from the ships.

Though the last bit is interesting as I was under the impression that Astronauts on re-entry experience 4.5g for up to 15-20 minutes
 

Dutchman141

Dutchman141
vargata said:
is it? didn't notice. looks like the opposite of SC, they have so many features and fail to make it a game and release it. ED was released as a game but it failed to become anymore than a spaceship flight simulator where there is nothing really to do...
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Then my advice to you is to occupy yourself with the many many things you can do in SC, in it's enormous galaxy.
I suggest to start with exploring, participate in story driven events, mine, bounty hunting, trade, mission running, bgs play, purchase ships without real cash and engineer them to suit your needs, etc.

Because yeah SC is a finished game and ED is just a tech demo, for a considerable amount of years already.
 

Kaocraft

Kaocraft
Ozric said:
I have no idea how they'll handle it in Odyssey, but given your thruster efficiency on both ships and SRV is already affected by the gravity of the planet, I doubt that your jumping will be the same.
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I think we're pretty much saying the same thing. I'm sure you're correct that on low G planets you might be able to jump a little bit higher and it'll be more floaty than on 9G, like the difference between playing as Mario vs. Luigi in SMB2. My bet is you'll also be able to jump higher in 9.0G than a real life human can jump on Earth. And you'll be able to crouch and lie down and probably do baseball ground slides and get back up again at the same speed using the exact same animations. And then you'll John Wayne swinging-hips strut into a space saloon, and the plainclothes suitless bartender is gonna fix you a drink the exact same way, shifting his weight from leg to leg and leaning against the counter the same way in every gravity scenario. To me this is pretty much the same as ignoring gravity and handwaving it away with a goofy ad-hoc fantasy device and calling it sci-fi.

The variations in handling of the SRV between a 0.1G planet and a 9.0G planet are hilariously middle of the road. This is what I'm talking about. On a 0.1G planet you will still struggle to drive up inclines and your vehicle will still stall out, spin its wheels, tip over backwards, and go rolling uncontrollably downhill. When you thrust upwards you will not get anywhere nearly as high up as you should when you compare it to how far up you can go on a planet with much higher gravity. You go maybe 2-3 times as high as on a planet with 90 times the gravity, before your thruster cooldown timer bar depletes and then your SRV's secret-always-on-uncontrollable-downward-thrusting-gravity-simulator thrusters on the wheels start pushing you down. These amazing wheel-mounted thrusters can't be turned off even when they are to your detriment, and they never run out of power or thrust no matter what else happens. When you're on a 9.0G planet the wheel thrusters flip around and point at the ground giving you a base amount of constant upward thrust which produces no ground effect or scorching of the surrounding terrain or kicking up of dust despite outputting tremendous amounts of force at all times. They are all gimballed and superpowered and precision coordinated to flawlessly simulate the experience of driving a flimsy low-performance vehicle in a poorly designed driving game.

So yeah I think it's probably going to be, at best, a slightly more nuanced version of the way No Man's Sky handles gravity, which is by manipulating the depletion and cooldown timer on your jetpack and nothing else. The downward thrust on your jetpack will be always-on and have a limitless supply of godlike power to ensure that you accelerate downward and fall to your death on a 0.1G planet when your suit's "power" "runs" "out".

I don't see how it possibly can be anything more than this given what we've seen and heard so far, and I will be absolutely astonished if there's more to it than that.
 

vargata

vargata
Dutchman141 said:
Then my advice to you is to occupy yourself with the many many things you can do in SC, in it's enormous galaxy.
I suggest to start with exploring, participate in story driven events, mine, bounty hunting, trade, mission running, bgs play, purchase ships without real cash and engineer them to suit your needs, etc.

Because yeah SC is a finished game and ED is just a tech demo, for a considerable amount of years already.
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lacking some comprehension, right? :D I exactly said SC is the tech demo and ED is the finished game, except its lacking content... mining, exploring, bounty hunting etc are jobs, I have a real life one thank you. they are well done but they are not fun for long, maybe for 1-2 days, these are just tools to achieve aims.. but what exactly those aims are? hmmm? to have bigger and bigger ships? you can do all these things in SC and more, and this was my point. SC already has more content but its not finished, not even close, ED is finished, a playable game, but lacking content.
 

Dutchman141

Dutchman141
vargata said:
lacking some comprehension, right? :D I exactly said SC is the tech demo and ED is the finished game, except its lacking content... mining, exploring, bounty hunting etc are jobs, I have a real life one thank you. they are well done but they are not fun for long, maybe for 1-2 days, these are just tools to achieve aims.. but what exactly those aims are? hmmm? to have bigger and bigger ships? you can do all these things in SC and more, and this was my point. SC already has more content but its not finished, not even close, ED is finished, a playable game, but lacking content.
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I agree that ED lacks a certain depth but I've never experienced it as a job, I do the things that are fun to me, the whole concept of playing games actually is having fun.
Experiencing ED as a job or grind is dependent on what you make of it imho, when I'm forced to grind I simply don't commit myself to those activities.
I've got over 3000 hours in ED and only a few of those were a grind, getting the Cutter, the rest consisted only of things I see as having fun.

Once SC becomes a finished game I'll compare the two and see which does what best, untill that day ED outperforms SC in almost every aspect imho.
 

Mole HD

Mole HD
I play both, sad to say I actually like both of them for completely different reasons.

As for comparisons, there is none except they both contain pixel spaceships.
 

vargata

vargata
Dutchman141 said:
I agree that ED lacks a certain depth but I've never experienced it as a job, I do the things that are fun to me, the whole concept of playing games actually is having fun.
Experiencing ED as a job or grind is dependent on what you make of it imho, when I'm forced to grind I simply don't commit myself to those activities.
I've got over 3000 hours in ED and only a few of those were a grind, getting the Cutter, the rest consisted only of things I see as having fun.

Once SC becomes a finished game I'll compare the two and see which does what best, untill that day ED outperforms SC in almost every aspect imho.
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I honestly think SC will NEVER be finished and properly released, just as ED will never be filled with content because that's not important today. people will pay for it, people will buy the meaningless dlc-s and while it pays, there is no reason making it good, its enough to just keep making it... the player's fantasy about what the game COULD be is just as much part of the marketing as its real shape is... sadly
 
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