Why I and many others will rarely play open

[Amanojaku]

Much like meeting a trader that doesn't engage cloak the instant you open comms. It's the most vicious of circles.

I can't even pull behind someone in SC, and give them a friendly o7 without them disappearing. The other night it was a shieldless Beluga. I was in Cubeo. We're both pledged to Princess Waifu. We're both headed towards Medupe City. I give the CMDR a o7, drop in the station right after the Beluga, and the Beluga was gone. lul

I even had a 50 million credit wing mission I just solo'd and was going to share it with them. I do that quite often when I get missions like that actually. I'll be sitting in dock, tell a random to join my wing real quick so I can share a mission with them, and STILL... half of them go "poof".

It's like... WHY ARE YOU IN OPEN?!

 

[Kira Mikamy]

why volunteer mod doesnt play and know the game mechanic? this is hilarious to see a lawyer defend the game and not a player.

If one is in any way interested in combat, yes, if not then not so much.

so why a group of 3 low skill player can do better than a one single skilled player, for example for win a conflict zone? why the number should be the solution key in this game and not the ability and the skill of each cmdrs? especially when we involved in the game bgs and powerplay, because the other activities are good to play in solo and open, but the one who make competition trough player have no sense to be played in the "easy" way of solo.
How can i counter attack a group of 3 players doing cz against my faction? using bot of course. this is what happens at the moment in the game, regular or not, this is what happens.
And NOBODY care about botting, cheating, exploiting. NOBODY.

 

[VR Lucian Arkright]

why volunteer mod doesnt play and know the game mechanic? this is hilarious to see a lawyer defend the game and not a player.

so why a group of 3 low skill player can do better than a one single skilled player, for example for win a conflict zone? why the number should be the solution key in this game and not the ability and the skill of each cmdrs? especially when we involved in the game bgs and powerplay, because the other activities are good to play in solo and open, but the one who make competition trough player have no sense to be played in the "easy" way of solo.
How can i counter attack a group of 3 players doing cz against my faction? using bot of course. this is what happens at the moment in the game, regular or not, this is what happens.

Quantity has a quality all of it's own.

 

[Kira Mikamy]

Quantity has a quality all of it's own.

yeah, the money for bought the game. this is the Quality fdev need.

 

[Thimeus]

so why a group of 3 low skill player can do better than a one single skilled player, for example for win a conflict zone?

Just like real life

why the number should be the solution key in this game and not the ability and the skill of each cmdrs? especially when we involved in the game bgs and powerplay, because the other activities are good to play in solo and open, but the one who make competition trough player have no sense to be played in the "easy" way of solo.
How can i counter attack a group of 3 players doing cz against my faction? using bot of course. this is what happens at the moment in the game, regular or not, this is what happens.
And NOBODY care about botting, cheating, exploiting. NOBODY.

You can counter them by playing with friends. That is why the player in my squardon are playing open only. If someone has a problem, we can easy see if someone else is in range to help.

 

[Kira Mikamy]

Just like real life



You can counter them by playing with friends. That is why the player in my squardon are playing open only. If someone has a problem, we can easy see if someone else is in range to help.

how i can know how many are they? and what if for each one of they, they have 3 bot account? what if they cheating? cheats works as always at the moment!
i have lot of friends fortunally, but not always so much and i think is ridicolous have to farm and grind like an idiots all days to stay at the same level of some bot. i have to use bot too, in solo. thats hilarious
In real life number make difference only in certain situation,

 

[Robert Maynard]

why volunteer mod doesnt play and know the game mechanic? this is hilarious to see a lawyer defend the game and not a player.

There's no requirement for any player to engage in any game feature that they choose not to engage in - and PvP is very much an optional aspect of the game as other players are optional in this game while very player enjoys the privilege of experiencing and affecting the shared galaxy. While participating in threads, moderators enjoy the same privilege to express their opinions as other forum users do and are subject to the same forum rules. I was a backer / player long before I was invited to become a moderator - so my opinions were well known long before the invitation was made.

so why a group of 3 low skill player can do better than a one single skilled player, for example for win a conflict zone? why the number should be the solution key in this game and not the ability and the skill of each cmdrs? especially when we involved in the game bgs and powerplay, because the other activities are good to play in solo and open, but the one who make competition trough player have no sense to be played in the "easy" way of solo.

A skilled player will, presumably, dispatch NPCs more efficiently than players of lesser skill, however increased numbers of participants will likely win the day.

How can i counter attack a group of 3 players doing cz against my faction? using bot of course. this is what happens at the moment in the game, regular or not, this is what happens.

Using the tools available to all players, regardless of game mode, in a feature that does not require any player to engage in itsi-PvP. Not using a bot though - that is against Frontier's ToS/EULA.

And NOBODY care about botting, cheating, exploiting. NOBODY.

Botting and cheating are against Frontier's rules. What constitutes an exploit is for Frontier to determine - and affecting pan-modal game features in any game mode is not an exploit.

 

[Kira Mikamy]

There's no requirement for any player to engage in any game feature that they choose not to engage in - and PvP is very much an optional aspect of the game as other players are optional in this game while very player enjoys the privilege of experiencing and affecting the shared galaxy. I was a backer / player long before I was invited to become a moderator - so my opinions were well known long before the invitation was made.

PvP isnt necessary. the fact i see you is.
anyway, the terms PVP means "players versus player" but not player shooting other player.
in elite everything in terms of bgs or powerplay is PvP.
is the competition, PvP in elite can be made ONLY through PVE!
i win a cz killing npc, not players.
i win in powerplay killing npc or moving commodities, not killing players.
the squadron ranking is PvP and you can be the first of the rank just doing PvE activities.
this is a consolidate mechanic and works well but chease to be balanced when some features permit players to exploit it and make for his group a big advantage, just the simple old example: you can make fortification for powerplay in solo with a shield less cutter and you can carry more merit than me, so in a 1vs1 match when the one who delivered more fish in a station win, the player in solo win against me if we have the same ships, i have to fit my ships to avoid to be killed from other player so i have be forced to play solo with a shield less cutter because no one want a one way match!
Some math:
100 shield less cutter in solo vs 100 cutter with shield and 1 shield cell bank for open play (and probably cant be enough)

1 shield less cutter can carry 794 tons, they are 100 so 79.400 tons for each run
1 cutter with shield and bank can carry 666 tons assuming you use a 6a prismatic shield and a 6bank, 100 of it are 66.000 tons each run

79.400 tons vs 66.000 tons, so for a balanced match, assuming all we have the same ships, the open group need 20 more player to have the some rateo of the solo group, but also in open there the variability of beeing spotted by some humans, more lethal than npc of course.
theres not skill needed for commodity moving, so also a low tier cmdrs can make his part, and we all know the money for buy a cutter or a t9 is really easy to made at this point of the game, in our community and i think in all the others, theres daily some group of cmdrs have to share a buch of massacre mission, we have some new player make 300\500milions of cr in a day doing nothing.

Why NEVER ever doing something about that? A LITTLE LITTLE thing to make everyone happy! not open only, but damns, make the people in open have A SUPER TINY BIT advantange in terms of reward! A REALLY LITTYLE, may 5 or 10% more. why not? whats the problem aboout. can make happy the open player, and can make happy the solo player they just have to accept the fact open play is more difficult and its good to have a little little boost in terms of bgs and powerplay!

Using the tools available to all players, regardless of game mode, in a feature that does not require any player to engage in itsi-PvP. Not using a bot though - that is against Frontier's ToS/EULA.

Botting and cheating are against Frontier's rules. What constitutes an exploit is for Frontier to determine - and affecting pan-modal game features in any game mode is not an exploit.

we know that, but a cheater dont care about rules, of course.
and theres not way to report they if they do that in solo, of course, we cannot know, we have no proof.
In elite dangerous all cheaters and bot play solo, this is a well knowed fact and they still exist, we have proof of that

 

[Rubbernuke]

So central that two (soon to be three) Elite ranks are able to be gained without firing a shot in combat.

Like I should post (but am feeling lazy) EDs materials say regardless of what profession you are, you should be ready to stand and fight to defend yourself".

So, even if you are scanning plants, moving cargo or walking about you need to be combat ready. I'm not advocating for a massive uptick in general difficulty, but actually (and drastically) raise the difficulty ceiling for those who go off this central path. Powerplay (where appropriate) should be like this, with NPC agents roaming in free space that should worry the high ranking.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Solo already is harder than either of the multi-player game modes with respect to the challenge posed by NPCs - because it must be faced alone and not in a Wing.

Only Thargoids though. Human NPC ships are a doddle. Plus, the POI / SC / NAV / drop zone meta further reduces danger.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

PvP isnt necessary. the fact i see you is.
anyway, the terms PVP means "players versus player" but not player shooting other player.
in elite everything in terms of bgs or powerplay is PvP.
is the competition, PvP in elite can be made ONLY through PVE!
i win a cz killing npc, not players.
i win in powerplay killing npc or moving commodities, not killing players.
the squadron ranking is PvP and you can be the first of the rank just doing PvE activities.
this is a consolidate mechanic and works well but chease to be balanced when some features permit players to exploit it and make for his group a big advantage, just the simple old example: you can make fortification for powerplay in solo with a shield less cutter and you can carry more merit than me, so in a 1vs1 match when the one who delivered more fish in a station win, the player in solo win against me if we have the same ships, i have to fit my ships to avoid to be killed from other player so i have be forced to play solo with a shield less cutter because no one want a one way match!
Some math:
100 shield less cutter in solo vs 100 cutter with shield and 1 shield cell bank for open play (and probably cant be enough)

1 shield less cutter can carry 794 tons, they are 100 so 79.400 tons for each run
1 cutter with shield and bank can carry 666 tons assuming you use a 6a prismatic shield and a 6bank, 100 of it are 66.000 tons each run

79.400 tons vs 66.000 tons, so for a balanced match, assuming all we have the same ships, the open group need 20 more player to have the some rateo of the solo group, but also in open there the variability of beeing spotted by some humans, more lethal than npc of course.
theres not skill needed for commodity moving, so also a low tier cmdrs can make his part, and we all know the money for buy a cutter or a t9 is really easy to made at this point of the game, in our community and i think in all the others, theres daily some group of cmdrs have to share a buch of massacre mission, we have some new player make 300\500milions of cr in a day doing nothing.

Why NEVER ever doing something about that? A LITTLE LITTLE thing to make everyone happy! not open only, but damns, make the people in open have A SUPER TINY BIT advantange in terms of reward! A REALLY LITTYLE, may 5 or 10% more. why not? whats the problem aboout. can make happy the open player, and can make happy the solo player they just have to accept the fact open play is more difficult and its good to have a little little boost in terms of bgs and powerplay!

we know that, but a cheater dont care about rules, of course.
and theres not way to report they if they do that in solo, of course, we cannot know, we have no proof.
In elite dangerous all cheaters and bot play solo, this is a well knowed fact and they still exist, we have proof of that

Well what prevents you from taking advantage of all those supposed advantages of solo mode?

 

[Rubbernuke]

I don't mind it being easy for people who fly around just trading or whatever, but like...

If you go around getting wanted you should have bounty hunters after you. And they should scale to the size of your bounty. And yes, the scale should go into "hey, you know those wing assassination targets? The engineered FDLs that bring a party of engineered vultures? Your bounty is into the hundreds of millions so we're just going to skip the vultures, replace them with more of those FDLs, and have them come after you no matter what you're flying. No warnings in supercruise either, you'll be minding your own business in a signal source and these dudes will just drop on you from time to time. Get a bounty in the billions? You're going to have cutters with FDL escorts. You're going to be minding your own business mining and never be sure, even half an hour into the instance, whether this gank wing of NPCs is going to come for you. They're going to bring stealthboats too. One minute nothing, next minute you're getting the INCOMING TORPEDO warning and a pair of diamondbacks are next to you that you never knew were there. They're reverbs as well. Get dunked on."

Seriously, the upper end of the bounty hunter scale should be downright unfair in terms of the gear they bring to the party. Nothing cheaty like ATR and their reverb lasers, nothing that isn't available to players, just...
Once your bounty gets that high, they should be as dangerous as players.
I'm not talking "a couple of murders for some massacre mission" for this, I'm talking bounties in the hundreds of millons, the kinds you can only get through serious ganking or BGS mass-murder. A price that big on your head, and you should be looking over your shoulder wherever you go.

And I'm saying this as a dude who's primary occupation in the game is crime.

Indeed- you should be feeling fear if you are a nutter in ED from NPCs.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Like I should post (but am feeling lazy) EDs materials say regardless of what profession you are, you should be ready to stand and fight to defend yourself".

Indeed - noting that defending oneself from NPCs and players can seem to almost be a different game entirely - and that NPCs follow Frontier's rules of engagement whereas players don't.

So, even if you are scanning plants, moving cargo or walking about you need to be combat ready.

.... or ready to evade such combat.

I'm not advocating for a massive uptick in general difficulty, but actually (and drastically) raise the difficulty ceiling for those who go off this central path.

Significantly greater optional NPC challenge is already available in-game.

Powerplay (where appropriate) should be like this, with NPC agents roaming in free space that should worry the high ranking.

Indeed.

 

[Northpin]

In real life number make difference only in certain situation,

Ofc it does.
And this game, that happens in your real life, is one of those certain situation where numbers matters.

How can i counter attack a group of 3 players doing cz against my faction? using bot of course. this is what happens at the moment in the game, regular or not, this is what happens.
And NOBODY care about botting, cheating, exploiting. NOBODY.

I lost, they must be cheating

 

[Robert Maynard]

PvP isnt necessary. the fact i see you is.

Players don't see players who choose not to play with them.

anyway, the terms PVP means "players versus player" but not player shooting other player.
in elite everything in terms of bgs or powerplay is PvP.
is the competition, PvP in elite can be made ONLY through PVE!
i win a cz killing npc, not players.
i win in powerplay killing npc or moving commodities, not killing players.
the squadron ranking is PvP and you can be the first of the rank just doing PvE activities.

Indirect asynchronous PvP, otherwise termed the shared galaxy that we all affect and experience, is a part of everyone's game, whether they consciously engage in it or not.

Why NEVER ever doing something about that? A LITTLE LITTLE thing to make everyone happy! not open only, but damns, make the people in open have A SUPER TINY BIT advantange in terms of reward! A REALLY LITTYLE, may 5 or 10% more. why not? whats the problem aboout. can make happy the open player, and can make happy the solo player they just have to accept the fact open play is more difficult and its good to have a little little boost in terms of bgs and powerplay!

I doubt that many of those seeking Open only would be content with a 5% to 10% bonus for their actions in Open compared to the actions of players in Solo and Private Groups. Then there's the inconvenient parallel between reducing players in Solo and Private Groups effects on the game and the punishment meted out to players who break Frontier's rules, i.e. the shadowban server - where the player's effect on the game is removed completely.

we know that, but a cheater dont care about rules, of course.
and theres not way to report they if they do that in solo, of course, we cannot know, we have no proof.
In elite dangerous all cheaters and bot play solo, this is a well knowed fact and they still exist, we have proof of that

If there is proof, submit it to Customer Support for them to deal with. It may be that what is considered to be "proof" by some isn't actually proof that anything untoward occurred.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Significantly greater optional NPC challenge is already available in-game.

I respect you too much to post a laughter_reaction.gif meme to this, but the challenge curve is woeful in ED in regard to many areas. Its shockingly poor when it should (and could, quite easily) fit together and push back against players.

Indeed - noting that defending oneself from NPCs and players can seem to almost be a different game entirely - and that NPCs follow Frontier's rules of engagement whereas players don't.

.... or ready to evade such combat.

But the danger has to be there- everyone has engineering now, so the case for even top end ships having mild engineering is to me, over. Pirate lords should be like CZ captains, generals fly ships that an actual ranking officer would fly. Neither change would effect the new people, but would make top end Elite missions less of a button mash facetank session.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I respect you too much to post a laughter_reaction.gif meme to this, but the challenge curve is woeful in ED in regard to many areas. Its shockingly poor when it should (and could, quite easily) fit together and push back against players.

I didn't mention a curve - simply that greater challenges are available.

But the danger has to be there- everyone has engineering now, so the case for even top end ships having mild engineering is to me, over. Pirate lords should be like CZ captains, generals fly ships that an actual ranking officer would fly. Neither change would effect the new people, but would make top end Elite missions less of a button mash facetank session.

Everyone has access to engineering, yes - how much the player-base in general has engineered their ships or even how many / few engineers they have unlocked is known only to Frontier. Noting that all new players start the game with no engineers unlocked and that the challenge posed by the game in general is set taking all players into account - and half of them are at or below median skill - also, I doubt that the NPC challenge is set assuming that players fly around in combat ships, due to the other roles,

 

[Rubbernuke]

I didn't mention a curve - simply that greater challenges are available.

Only Thargoid interceptors are anywhere near a challenge- everything else tops out far too early elsewhere. Its got to the point people simply farm and farm and farm, when Elite rank NPCs should strike a chord of fear in most people.

Everyone has access to engineering, yes - how much the player-base in general has engineered their ships or even how many / few engineers they have unlocked is known only to Frontier. Noting that all new players start the game with no engineers unlocked and that the challenge posed by the game in general is set taking all players into account - and half of them are at or below median skill - also, I doubt that the NPC challenge is set assuming that players fly around in combat ships, due to the other roles,

If a player takes on an Elite rank NPC its on them, the challenge faced is for them to decide. Its not an automatic right that any player can take on any NPC and expect to win.

 

[Robert Maynard]

If a player takes on an Elite rank NPC its on them, the challenge faced is for them to decide. Its not an automatic right that any player can take on any NPC and expect to win.

It's up to Frontier to decide how many will be excluded from such content based on their control of NPC challenge.

 

[Matt_BLJH]

To increase the challenge for NPCs I would give them less armour, but more capacity to inflict damage, like a one man Spec Ops wing. The challenge with CZ Captains is not one of survival, but outstripping the shields and SCBs in order to actually kill them. They are such a borefest I never even go near them now.