Modes Why I choose to play in Open instead of Solo.

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Totally agree with you Algo.

I just find it odd that certain old hand PvE Zealots (Not Wargfoot, btw as they seem to be fresh out of the box) who post here tell us why open only mechanics can't work because of 'router fiddling', yet would and do promote mode locking for 'gweeefers'.

I think its safe to say at this point they are trolls.

Not worth the time or effort arguing with them anymore. It was fun for a while, literally taking a dump on every excuse they had.

My only issue is im surprised it was allowed to happen. But thats not our fault for trying to legitimately play the game on fair grounds.

 

[Jockey79]

If ports X,Y,Z aren't available then you cannot log into the game.

So people in hotels would be excluded as well then?
And on certain mobile devices, it won't allow too much traffic through.

Nice how you think some people are more entitled to play than others.

 

[Jockey79]

Open fans need to justify why someone should lower his general security settings.

Because they want to feel special so it seems, as it's not to help improve gameplay for them.

 

[Wargfoot]

So people in hotels would be excluded as well then?
And on certain mobile devices, it won't allow too much traffic through.

Nice how you think some people are more entitled to play than others.

Yes.
Also set the game to exclude minorities that make me uncomfortable, people who disagree with my political views, and hot chicks that won't date me.

^---- I decided to be in your wing as you fire up the FSD for a quick jump to the "Crap I Never Said" system.

 

[Goose4291]

Please stop spreading fake news. What you call 'router fiddling' are some basic standard router settings for anyone who takes care about the security of his system. For many routers it would mean you have to 'fiddle' with the settings to make it properly work in Open to begin with. That is not to justify anything, Open fans need to justify why someone should lower his general security settings. It's rather a structural issue caused by the peer to peer nature of the game and basically FD to be blamed for, not the users.

If you guys who are circular agreeing to each other would understand what I'm saying, you also would understand that and why FD can't (and don't want to) do anything about what you call "cheating".

Yes. Because posts like the one below weren't regularly thrown around like confetti here when OOPP was tabled.

I don't do PP, but if I did, and it became Open only, I would make adjustments to my router to block other players.

FLASH TOPIC: Powerplay Proposal - Elite: Dangerous PvE - Mobius

elitepve.com

Or one from yourself.

Yawn. Age old topic that usually ends with someone mentioning the simple fact that due to the P2P structure of the game it's pretty easy to play in 'pseudo Open'. Just requires some trivial router fiddling that isn't traceable. Even if you would go so far and remove all modes and only leave a 'unified Open' for all: As long as it's P2P no dice to lock any activities to Open, at least not in the way the OP has in mind. Everybody who wants would still be able to play Solo while it still would look like he's playing in Open. That's already possible right now but since there's no reason to do so I doubt anyone would be so daft and actually do that. But as soon as there is a reason I guarantee you that many player will make use of it.

Hate to be the party pooper but long story short, since there're no signs of FD ever moving away from P2P:
//thread

In case you wonder what these 'router fiddling' might be, I certainly wouldn't reveal any details here. The simple fact that some people with certain routers even need to explicitly change some settings to even see some humans at all should ring a bell to you...

 

[Mouse]

I think its safe to say at this point they are trolls.

Not worth the time or effort arguing with them anymore. It was fun for a while, literally taking a dump on every excuse they had.

My only issue is im surprised it was allowed to happen. But thats not our fault for trying to legitimately play the game on fair grounds.

The game can be legitimately played on fair ground. You know who set the rules for what is fair? FDev... They set rules that allow all to play. Just because you can't have an advantage doesn't make it unfair. I don't have one either.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Totally agree with you Algo.

I just find it odd that certain old hand PvE Zealots (Not Wargfoot, btw as they seem to be fresh out of the box) who post here tell us why open only mechanics can't work because of 'router fiddling', yet would and do promote mode locking for 'gweeefers'.

Router fiddling is a consideration, its not a lynchpin point. Please don't try and make out that its a key reason.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I think its safe to say at this point they are trolls.

Not worth the time or effort arguing with them anymore. It was fun for a while, literally taking a dump on every excuse they had.

My only issue is im surprised it was allowed to happen. But thats not our fault for trying to legitimately play the game on fair grounds.

Oh, we name calling now?

Ok, i think anyone who advocates open only powerplay is a troll.

That good?

 

[Saool]

Of course you are allowed your option. Unless you do something to break the forum rules no one can stop you having your opinion.

That won't stop people from having a pop at it however, but that's because everyone else gets there opinion too.

 

[Mouse]

Oh, we name calling now?

Ok, i think anyone who advocates open only powerplay is a troll.

That good?

Aunt don't sink to that level. You are actually better than that. It is sad that some want to call those who want the game to live up to it's promises as trolls, but ignore the Bull.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Aunt don't sink to that level. You are actually better than that. It is sad that some want to call those who want the game to live up to it's promises as trolls, but ignore the Bull.

Don't worry, i'm not sinking to that level, i'm simply making a point that its possible to debate without labelling people or casting aspersions on their intent.

 

[Captain Willard]

I'm happy he plays open.
I have nothing to offer in open, so I play solo and private group.

 

[Morbad]

Regarding features being stalled to account for cheaters...I agree this is undesireable in principle, but I also think the ease of cheating and the degree of control over who one can be instanced with in Open are a fundamental aspects of the game that cannot be ignored.

The game needs more robust mechanisms to identify and deter cheating, and would need to revamp other mechanisms that can easily be abused to dictate instancing, before significant Open-only content would be viable. Yes, certain aspects could be made Open only now, and a significant portion of players would not go out of their way to game the networking system or block lists, but many would, and making rules that one has no ability or desire to enforce just undermines confidence in the game.

The chilling effect of these shoddy mechansims and lax enforcement is already palpable enough in the game we have now, where Open is wholly optional.

But more to the point of your question: I'm not willing to create a potential security hole just for such a weak implementation of PvP that Open is.

There isn't much in the way of a potential security hole here.

I have several ports forwarded for ED, nothing listens on these ports except ED and it's highly unlikely ED can do anything harmful with anything it may receive.

 

[Chaparral]

I have seen chat messages from multiple modes in popular locations. Can someone elaborate on the scope of this chat overlay feature? Are all instances of say Shinrarta chat going to appear within everyone's chat window within Shin? Does blocking restrict cross mode chat messages? Is it possible to color code the mode the chat message originated in? If I post within solo, will Open players see it? If this cross mode chat is robust, the pve socialization seekers could pretty much stop worrying about no PVE open since they could meet new folks without pvp exposure. I would appreciate any details on cross mode chat properties.

 

[Morbad]

System chat and direct messages are coss-mode, the others are not. Everyone in Shinrarta can talk to everyone else in Shinrarta via System chat. Blocking does restrict cross mode chat.

I don't know of any in-game way to tell what mode someone in system chat is in.

 

[Darkfyre99]

I have seen chat messages from multiple modes in popular locations. Can someone elaborate on the scope of this chat overlay feature? Are all instances of say Shinrarta chat going to appear within everyone's chat window within Shin? Does blocking restrict cross mode chat messages? Is it possible to color code the mode the chat message originated in? If I post within solo, will Open players see it? If this cross mode chat is robust, the pve socialization seekers could pretty much stop worrying about no PVE open since they could meet new folks without pvp exposure. I would appreciate any details on cross mode chat properties.

Some time ago, Frontier implemented System Wide chat, so that everyone that is in a system, regardless of instance, would be able to communicate with each other. For example, if I'm in an Open instance here in North America, I'll still be able to communicate with someone who's in an Open instance in Europe, even though we won't be instanced together due to latency. I'll also be able to communicate with someone in Australia who's also in Open but not instanced with either of us thanks to latency, anyone who's in Solo or Private Groups, and even people who may be on the surface of planets, in other stations, or in Supercruise.

 

[Goose4291]

You quoted a very old post from me and from a time where I wasn't fully aware what consequences not using port forwarding or UPnP actually has (or has not). Meanwhile I know better (read my most recent description again if in doubt) and I don't feel sorry for being able to learn. At least I improve while you seem to immune to any sort of learning.

Perhaps if you're so capable of learning, you should try to add reading comprehension instead of weaksauce insults to your arsenal then?

In my original post I was saying that any attempt to introduce mode locking for griefers would, if we were to take the anti-change brigades comments at face value, face the same issues open only powerplay faces in that regard.

In my second post I then said I found it odd that certain people who yell 'OPEN POWERPLAY CANT WORK BECAUSE OF ROUTER FIDDLING' were among those who seem to be the first proponents in any suggestion to Mode lock real life murderers... sorry, people who engage in PvP, into open so white hats can hunt them down .

The point is, when it comes to 'router fiddling' then we seem to talk about two very different conceptions. What you or some others have in mind is something that I even didn't consider as in the current situation it would make absolutely no sense. Why would anyone go through the hassle if there's nothing to gain? It will be a totally different situation though once their will be certain incentives or advantages for playing in Open. In this case it would indeed be cheating and FD's responsibility to identify these cheats without blaming false positives like some totally legit router setting as mine could look like.

But let alone these obvious (and as of now academic) cheats for a moment. If you understand what playing with or without open ports actually means, you would understand that it's affecting the probability of meeting other commanders which is something entirely else than blocking. Now think twice if you really want to introduce some sort of reward for playing in Open based on some unknown probabilities...

I fully agree, we are talking cross-purpose, as I'm talking about the Frontear forum consensus hypocrisy regarding this particular bone of contention, whereas you're talking about the actual mechanics of the issue.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

IF we are going into reasons not to implement something, then i must say, my experience in Open over the last few days has been particularly bad. Not because of griefers, but because of FPS. Maybe its on my end, or just the nature of the beast with P2P and getting instanced with people on potato connections, but i've been suffering terrible FPS drops.

I think even the most ardent PvPer would agree that being in a PvP situation at 25 FPS is not fun.

Not saying it should be a blocker to making PPOO (or is it OOPP? I forget), but its certainly a consideration.

 

[Darkfyre99]

IF we are going into reasons not to implement something, then i must say, my experience in Open over the last few days has been particularly bad. Not because of griefers, but because of FPS. Maybe its on my end, or just the nature of the beast with P2P and getting instanced with people on potato connections, but i've been suffering terrible FPS drops.

I think even the most ardent PvPer would agree that being in a PvP situation at 25 FPS is not fun.

Not saying it should be a blocker to making PPOO (or is it OOPP? I forget), but its certainly a consideration.

It's PPOO if you're opposed to it, OOPP if you're in favor.

My chief concern about Open Only anything is that I like the current state of Open: it's fun to play in, and most of the people who would make it not fun are not present, because most of the players who have no interest in any form of PvP are playing in other modes. It's hard to pretend you're a mighty PvPer when even players like me don't consider you a major threat, and the actual PvPers would swat you like a gnat.

As for PPOO in particular... my stance has always been the same: due to the way instancing "works" in this game, I don't think it will solve the problems in Powerplay it purportedly supposed to solve, and it will create more problems than it will solve. The networking in this game is not designed for the kind OO advocates desire, and until Frontier Developments is willing to go with a client/server networking solution, it never will be.

 

[Bigmaec]

It's POOP if you're opposed to it, OOPP if you're in favor.

FTFY