On the issue of roleplaying, the problem I feel there is that the roleplaying is entirely within your own head - there's nothing actually in the game to show for you playing your role. It's all a great make-believe tale, completely disconnected from the actual game we are playing; unfortunately, many players would prefer to play a game that supports their roleplaying, rather than the two incidentally being done at the same time.
Why I don't play Elite, but also - why I hope to in the future!
- Thread starter Kicks
- Start date
On the issue of roleplaying, the problem I feel there is that the roleplaying is entirely within your own head - there's nothing actually in the game to show for you playing your role. It's all a great make-believe tale, completely disconnected from the actual game we are playing; unfortunately, many players would prefer to play a game that supports their roleplaying, rather than the two incidentally being done at the same time.
This change that FD are making to make the planets reflect their elemental composition could be a platform to more exploration content. If you then have materials present that can be mined/collected based on that composition you can then create opportunities for mining. If you limit the element and it's quality and add some decent scanning mechanics you then create an opportunity for mining but also that a planet is mined out forcing players to look elsewhere.
Even if its limited to one player base per system I think it would be good if player factions were able to create their own home base and for every 10 systems controlled one new base. These bases could be developed and extended with set extensions to create bases like we see today. Make it obvious who the controlling faction of the base is. If the player base has a research tree so that after a basic pad you have to research things like extra pads or even faction organisation elements. eg specific buildings are needed for certain faction activities. Further out I would give players the opportunity to establish small mining bases. If you limit to one per system then it becomes advantageous to get there first.
Even if its limited to one player base per system I think it would be good if player factions were able to create their own home base and for every 10 systems controlled one new base. These bases could be developed and extended with set extensions to create bases like we see today. Make it obvious who the controlling faction of the base is. If the player base has a research tree so that after a basic pad you have to research things like extra pads or even faction organisation elements. eg specific buildings are needed for certain faction activities. Further out I would give players the opportunity to establish small mining bases. If you limit to one per system then it becomes advantageous to get there first.
Deleted member 38366
D
There's been alot of great ideas, but quite frequently they've been labeled "ELITE isn't that type of Game".
Which is unfortunate, as ELITE hasn't been "this type of Game" - until it was. Since modernization was obviously needed. And it went with the flow, tech and networking of course.
Things that strike me and which I strongly believe ELITE could massively benefit from :
- actual Sandbox Economy (think : Egosoft)
Have Player actions have a real, plausible and realistic impact on Economies. Create booms, flood markets, crash prices, drive other prices up. Realize that you're actually blazing a trail here - and benefit if you're smart.
Competing Players (think BGS) can have an alternative vector to make their own Faction flourish or combat another Faction.
- Planet Surfaces
Huuuuuuge Playgounds, available in near infinite amounts. BUT... all real estate currently unused. 9.9*10E99 Square km... and then some more. Unused. Boggles my mind.
A single landable moon offers enough for entire genres of Games. One. Single. Moon.
- Real-time Strategy elements
- Tower Defense elements
- FPS (Space legs, Vehicle-based or Ship-based Recon, Combat or Racing)
- Mining (from SRV/Ship-based direct drilling all the way upto building up well-defended Mining Installations)
- Exploration (that alone would fill Pages... No caves? Bollox. Construct an entry Structure with a Hangar/Pad that serves as a loading screen. Voila, you can enter a totally differently rendered underground world not depending on our Surface Shaders)
- Forward Operating Bases
Well, we have an entire Galaxy. Allow Players to construct Base in space if they wish. To preserve Server resources, make them fall apart after x months if you must. Keep it a min. of xxx LY from inhabited or otherwise lore/permit-locked space if desired.
Plenty of space without interfering with any Frontier future plans.
- Full Colonization mechanics
Allow Players or Groups to discover, claim and settle in any System they desire (restrictions as by Frontier requirements). Colonize it. Long-term project, Base- , Economy- and Security management elements coming in.
Build up your own place, support and grow it. An actual place you can call home, because it actually is. It's yours, it's your creation.
It's not like we have a shortage of Systems, right?
- Salvage
Space is big... And lots of stuff got lost.
So how about actual Salvaging. From scrap metal over Black Boxes to Equipment - all the way to patching broken/abandoned Ships, send an NPC over and tow it back home if economical.
- RPG
We got NPC Crew, right? How about they get several dozen skillsets you can build up? The better and more experienced they become, the more assistance and value they offer.
All the way upto being able to tell them exactly how to run things at the helm. Teach them how to support you in any Situation or Task.
- CQC/Simulator
Give it an additional Simulator Option that takes place in the known Universe, with the Option to operate over virtual Planets or any custom-built scenario.
Test-drive Ships, build custom or fly historical scenarios, PvP of all flavors, test your builds, compare Engineer builds, get total and complete Telemetry to afford Benchmarks on any Detail you desire to Analyze.
Basically like a public Beta where you can freely do whatever you like or want. Your own "Advanced Training".
(Can your Cutter survive 20 Grade 5 Engineered Sidewinders? Find out. How does a T10 handle under 10.5g? Find out. Want to precisely benchmark how many PAs of a certain Engineering fit a specific Power Distributor or Heat capacity? Test it. Anything. Just do it.)
-----------------------------
TL : DR
There's a crapton of things ELITE has plenty of free space for. None being mandatory - but offering Options to dig far deeper into any specific Task to get the best and most diverse experience out of it.
Considering the Alpha-level placeholder mechanics we've seen in the past, to me the Game is literally begging... screaming for such deeper and diverse stabs to massively flesh things out.
Almost like an XXL Pizza, but currently one with surprisingly sparse toppings. You know, it could use alot on top of that pizza, cheese crust and everything. The whole nine yards.
Which is unfortunate, as ELITE hasn't been "this type of Game" - until it was. Since modernization was obviously needed. And it went with the flow, tech and networking of course.
Things that strike me and which I strongly believe ELITE could massively benefit from :
- actual Sandbox Economy (think : Egosoft)
Have Player actions have a real, plausible and realistic impact on Economies. Create booms, flood markets, crash prices, drive other prices up. Realize that you're actually blazing a trail here - and benefit if you're smart.
Competing Players (think BGS) can have an alternative vector to make their own Faction flourish or combat another Faction.
- Planet Surfaces
Huuuuuuge Playgounds, available in near infinite amounts. BUT... all real estate currently unused. 9.9*10E99 Square km... and then some more. Unused. Boggles my mind.
A single landable moon offers enough for entire genres of Games. One. Single. Moon.
- Real-time Strategy elements
- Tower Defense elements
- FPS (Space legs, Vehicle-based or Ship-based Recon, Combat or Racing)
- Mining (from SRV/Ship-based direct drilling all the way upto building up well-defended Mining Installations)
- Exploration (that alone would fill Pages... No caves? Bollox. Construct an entry Structure with a Hangar/Pad that serves as a loading screen. Voila, you can enter a totally differently rendered underground world not depending on our Surface Shaders)
- Forward Operating Bases
Well, we have an entire Galaxy. Allow Players to construct Base in space if they wish. To preserve Server resources, make them fall apart after x months if you must. Keep it a min. of xxx LY from inhabited or otherwise lore/permit-locked space if desired.
Plenty of space without interfering with any Frontier future plans.
- Full Colonization mechanics
Allow Players or Groups to discover, claim and settle in any System they desire (restrictions as by Frontier requirements). Colonize it. Long-term project, Base- , Economy- and Security management elements coming in.
Build up your own place, support and grow it. An actual place you can call home, because it actually is. It's yours, it's your creation.
It's not like we have a shortage of Systems, right?
- Salvage
Space is big... And lots of stuff got lost.
So how about actual Salvaging. From scrap metal over Black Boxes to Equipment - all the way to patching broken/abandoned Ships, send an NPC over and tow it back home if economical.
- RPG
We got NPC Crew, right? How about they get several dozen skillsets you can build up? The better and more experienced they become, the more assistance and value they offer.
All the way upto being able to tell them exactly how to run things at the helm. Teach them how to support you in any Situation or Task.
- CQC/Simulator
Give it an additional Simulator Option that takes place in the known Universe, with the Option to operate over virtual Planets or any custom-built scenario.
Test-drive Ships, build custom or fly historical scenarios, PvP of all flavors, test your builds, compare Engineer builds, get total and complete Telemetry to afford Benchmarks on any Detail you desire to Analyze.
Basically like a public Beta where you can freely do whatever you like or want. Your own "Advanced Training".
(Can your Cutter survive 20 Grade 5 Engineered Sidewinders? Find out. How does a T10 handle under 10.5g? Find out. Want to precisely benchmark how many PAs of a certain Engineering fit a specific Power Distributor or Heat capacity? Test it. Anything. Just do it.)
-----------------------------
TL : DR
There's a crapton of things ELITE has plenty of free space for. None being mandatory - but offering Options to dig far deeper into any specific Task to get the best and most diverse experience out of it.
Considering the Alpha-level placeholder mechanics we've seen in the past, to me the Game is literally begging... screaming for such deeper and diverse stabs to massively flesh things out.
Almost like an XXL Pizza, but currently one with surprisingly sparse toppings. You know, it could use alot on top of that pizza, cheese crust and everything. The whole nine yards.
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Translation. You want a narrative experience that gives you a reason to do activities X, Y, and Z making a repetitive task engaging and worth doing and you want them to change from the limited P2P to Server based world to allow for greater number of players per instance.
So... yet another topic to the long line of topics already talking about the same thing.
Can we just make this a megathread already?
OP, I understand where you are coming from, I was a Wow addict for two years before moving on. My first few months playing Wow were magical and I remember them fondly. However, Wow and Elite are really not comparable.
1.Fairytale vs Simulation. Wow is a theme park type game where devs can do anything they want graphically and scientifically; Blizzard has much much more freedom than Elite Dangerous, which is primarily a simulation. Frontier actually consults and hires rigorously trained and bona fide scientists in astrophysics and astronomy. Wow was built in mind with a lot of peeps being able to play simultaneously with each other. Elite is about exploring the Milky Way as realistically as possible ... and exploration is mostly a solitary and meditative experience.
2. P2P vs Server infrastructure
3. Blizzard's budget is vastly larger compared to Frontier. Wow has a monthly subscription. If you want Wow in space, it probably means that kind of budget, that kind of infrastructure and a subscription with which to finance it all. Blizzard is a vast corporation. Compared to Blizzard, Frontier is practically Indie.
o7
1.Fairytale vs Simulation. Wow is a theme park type game where devs can do anything they want graphically and scientifically; Blizzard has much much more freedom than Elite Dangerous, which is primarily a simulation. Frontier actually consults and hires rigorously trained and bona fide scientists in astrophysics and astronomy. Wow was built in mind with a lot of peeps being able to play simultaneously with each other. Elite is about exploring the Milky Way as realistically as possible ... and exploration is mostly a solitary and meditative experience.
2. P2P vs Server infrastructure
3. Blizzard's budget is vastly larger compared to Frontier. Wow has a monthly subscription. If you want Wow in space, it probably means that kind of budget, that kind of infrastructure and a subscription with which to finance it all. Blizzard is a vast corporation. Compared to Blizzard, Frontier is practically Indie.
o7
But it is not disconnected from game. I do a mission - I do it for specific faction, mission has specific goal, it has text coming with it. It gives good base for RP. It is not completely made up.
As I said though, I understand players who doesn't 'buy' into that. We have different levels of being able to switch 'it' off.
For me, Elite is more of a toy than a game. It is a toy with game like qualities. You pick it up and play with it for a while, but the game you play is created by yourself. It would be nice if the game created itself and I could explore it and stand a chance of winning it, but the chances are that it would lose the qualities that keep me coming back.
I think making NPCs more persistent would have a far greater effect. No need for complete persistence, but at least persistent through one gameplay session (so could be stored in your computer's RAM, rather than at the server).
No more being 'chased' by the same eternally respawning NPC (in a far slower ship than you), or killing an NPC only for them to reappear apparently unscathed.
An NPC should not magically change ships (nor it's contents). And a damaged NPC ship should stay damaged.
And if they can remember you've attacked them previously, and behave appropriately, even better.
e.g. "Oh no, not you again! I'm getting out of here" (followed by NPC accelerating away from you at high speed)
e.g. "Oh, back for more are you?" (followed by NPC attacking you nearly immediately)
In theory this is what the BGS (BackGround Sim) is supposed to solve.
In theory.
In practice the effects of the BGS are mostly insignificant on players, and usually only visible on a station menu.
More obvious effects on the 'real world' would help make Elite Dangerou's universe feel alive (rather than static & unchanging).
Yes, I agree with this entirely. It seems to me to be the obvious solution to the problem of filling the vast space that Frontier have created… allow players to do at least part of the job for you. Station construction/ownership, defense and economic management would introduce all manner of strategic content to the game. Some kind of mission authoring system would allow you to recruit other players, compete with other stations/systems etc. There would need to be limits in place to prevent the emergence of monopolies, but in principle, I love the idea. After all, it’s not really plausible that multi-billionaires would still be functioning as delivery boys (unless they choose to).
I rather understand the OP, I think.
I agree with telepresence, it's just...foolish to run with that concept, and would be better off left simply unexplained.
And I also agree that at times, it feels like Fdev wants to punish players.
The way stations quickly switch to full-annihilate-you mode if you lurk too long over a landing pad.
The way being rammed while under the speed limit can still land you with fines or worse. (Though there's reason to hope 3.0 improves that situation somewhat.)
The fact that NPC crew die permanently, in spite of all the XP and credits they take up.
The way that the rank grinds, both for Pilot Federation ranks and Imperial/Federal ranks, are excessively long and primarily determined by sheer quantity of missions/kills/money achieved.
The fact Marco Qwent exists.
The fact that UA-bombing ever became a thing and still continues to be.
The fact that Powerplay requires so much effort with a return that decays over time.
And last but most importantly to me, the way that having *any* wing or crew member whatsoever reduces your XP gains by half - or worse if you have multiple wing/crew members.
It often feels like there's an archaic D&D 1980s-style dungeon master making the calls in design.
For all that, it is true at the same time that Fdev does communicate openly, listen, and adapt to its community on a level that is unmatched by anything else I've seen. Their support teams in particular are superb.
Blizzard, on the other hand...*sigh*. They know what they are doing, and they have mastered the art form of casual, easy-to-get-playing games with great sound and art design and plenty to do. I just really dislike their laissez-faire attitude towards balance, causing things such as the Overwatch Tournament to feel like little more than a marketing sham with no substance as a sport with a level playing field for all comers.
Regarding Fdev, they aren't perfect, and they never have enough time to do everything that's on The To-Do List; but they do try, they learn along with us, and I just wish I could get some more recognition of this combat XP divide problem, at the moment.
I agree with telepresence, it's just...foolish to run with that concept, and would be better off left simply unexplained.
And I also agree that at times, it feels like Fdev wants to punish players.
The way stations quickly switch to full-annihilate-you mode if you lurk too long over a landing pad.
The way being rammed while under the speed limit can still land you with fines or worse. (Though there's reason to hope 3.0 improves that situation somewhat.)
The fact that NPC crew die permanently, in spite of all the XP and credits they take up.
The way that the rank grinds, both for Pilot Federation ranks and Imperial/Federal ranks, are excessively long and primarily determined by sheer quantity of missions/kills/money achieved.
The fact Marco Qwent exists.
The fact that UA-bombing ever became a thing and still continues to be.
The fact that Powerplay requires so much effort with a return that decays over time.
And last but most importantly to me, the way that having *any* wing or crew member whatsoever reduces your XP gains by half - or worse if you have multiple wing/crew members.
It often feels like there's an archaic D&D 1980s-style dungeon master making the calls in design.
For all that, it is true at the same time that Fdev does communicate openly, listen, and adapt to its community on a level that is unmatched by anything else I've seen. Their support teams in particular are superb.
Blizzard, on the other hand...*sigh*. They know what they are doing, and they have mastered the art form of casual, easy-to-get-playing games with great sound and art design and plenty to do. I just really dislike their laissez-faire attitude towards balance, causing things such as the Overwatch Tournament to feel like little more than a marketing sham with no substance as a sport with a level playing field for all comers.
Regarding Fdev, they aren't perfect, and they never have enough time to do everything that's on The To-Do List; but they do try, they learn along with us, and I just wish I could get some more recognition of this combat XP divide problem, at the moment.
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The thing to remember, is despite "this was not intended" from Frontier, in the main, almost everything is intended.
UA bombing, I am sure, came from the realisation that CGs and so on cannot be interrupted due to Solo/ PG, coupled with the same romantic notion that the Piracy PP group came from. I'm not going to debate the merits of either.
This is simply Frontier's approach to 'shaking the tree' and creating some ways to balance the force; light and dark. Choices. However fumbled, however awkward. Frontier are dancing around the notion that there are ways to interact; not all need to be 'lawful good', if we're going with the RPG trope. Indeed, some of the most amazing games, have given leeway and potential for untoward shenanigans. They create a dynamic that can often make something really more meaningful.
But that will always need a good shepherd to manage. And it's pretty clear Frontier just can't (or won't).
There is a strong push to remove choices (eg rip out what people consider are "bad" things, like UA bombing) I think, but that very thing, choice, could be what ultimately allows Elite to eschew some of the issues and go on to become something rather special. What we do should matter. It should all matter. Should all mean something.
As a counterpoint to the OPs comments, I've recently picked up Warframe. Here's a game that's gone through a lot of the same issues Elite is now facing. It had an identity crisis. It wasn't very good at launch. However, they eventually came to understand their players, what worked, what didn't and really rebuilt the game.
It's still an epic grind; the hour counts rival Elite. Many many hundreds of hours, into the thousands. But what Warframe has done well, is nourish the player. And they stopped doing the super huge updates like Frontier; instead it's constant minor changes and improvements, that don't really 'shock' the playerbase.
Sure, there are still big updates, but mostly it's just cookies. They feed players tasty cookies, rather than trying to force feed an entire chocolate gateau. I think this is really where Frontier have struggled. They are so enamoured with these huge cake style deliveries. The problem is, you can't really consume an entire cake. It's too much. You can't really test such a thing very well either. Too much change, not enough time.
The real difference here, is that Warframe's developer, Digital Extremes, introduces new morsels that are done to a great standard. And have rare major updates. By focusing on and only releasing bite sized chunks, they can really hone the experience. Which means less shock, more awe and good times.
Frontier? Too much, it's not done to the standard they perhaps themselves would agree is where they want it and massive shock induced each time. They are an amazing team that have really just been far too overzealous with what they want to achieve. Very smart people who at times just aren't being practical. And they're still a little too disconnected from the experience they are crafting.
Sometimes, less is more. Less shotgun shake up, more focused features. More cookies, a little less cake. I'd like to think Frontier will eventually find their groove, and figure this out. I hope so. There is vast potential with Elite. Arguably, it has the potential to be one of the biggest, most amazing experiences a player can have. But right now, it's a lot of cake, and that cake is a bit undercooked, it's ingredients balance is out, and it's exhausting to try and consume.
For a very long time now, I've wanted Frontier to not try and do everything. Just do a few things. Do them exceptionally well. Nourish the player with regular rewards for their efforts.
More amazing tasty cookies, that are intoxicatingly good, a little less of the cake we're all just tired of. I really hope they eventually discover this, and try. I think the results could fundamentally shift the game from "almost" to "amazing.
UA bombing, I am sure, came from the realisation that CGs and so on cannot be interrupted due to Solo/ PG, coupled with the same romantic notion that the Piracy PP group came from. I'm not going to debate the merits of either.
This is simply Frontier's approach to 'shaking the tree' and creating some ways to balance the force; light and dark. Choices. However fumbled, however awkward. Frontier are dancing around the notion that there are ways to interact; not all need to be 'lawful good', if we're going with the RPG trope. Indeed, some of the most amazing games, have given leeway and potential for untoward shenanigans. They create a dynamic that can often make something really more meaningful.
But that will always need a good shepherd to manage. And it's pretty clear Frontier just can't (or won't).
There is a strong push to remove choices (eg rip out what people consider are "bad" things, like UA bombing) I think, but that very thing, choice, could be what ultimately allows Elite to eschew some of the issues and go on to become something rather special. What we do should matter. It should all matter. Should all mean something.
As a counterpoint to the OPs comments, I've recently picked up Warframe. Here's a game that's gone through a lot of the same issues Elite is now facing. It had an identity crisis. It wasn't very good at launch. However, they eventually came to understand their players, what worked, what didn't and really rebuilt the game.
It's still an epic grind; the hour counts rival Elite. Many many hundreds of hours, into the thousands. But what Warframe has done well, is nourish the player. And they stopped doing the super huge updates like Frontier; instead it's constant minor changes and improvements, that don't really 'shock' the playerbase.
Sure, there are still big updates, but mostly it's just cookies. They feed players tasty cookies, rather than trying to force feed an entire chocolate gateau. I think this is really where Frontier have struggled. They are so enamoured with these huge cake style deliveries. The problem is, you can't really consume an entire cake. It's too much. You can't really test such a thing very well either. Too much change, not enough time.
The real difference here, is that Warframe's developer, Digital Extremes, introduces new morsels that are done to a great standard. And have rare major updates. By focusing on and only releasing bite sized chunks, they can really hone the experience. Which means less shock, more awe and good times.
Frontier? Too much, it's not done to the standard they perhaps themselves would agree is where they want it and massive shock induced each time. They are an amazing team that have really just been far too overzealous with what they want to achieve. Very smart people who at times just aren't being practical. And they're still a little too disconnected from the experience they are crafting.
Sometimes, less is more. Less shotgun shake up, more focused features. More cookies, a little less cake. I'd like to think Frontier will eventually find their groove, and figure this out. I hope so. There is vast potential with Elite. Arguably, it has the potential to be one of the biggest, most amazing experiences a player can have. But right now, it's a lot of cake, and that cake is a bit undercooked, it's ingredients balance is out, and it's exhausting to try and consume.
For a very long time now, I've wanted Frontier to not try and do everything. Just do a few things. Do them exceptionally well. Nourish the player with regular rewards for their efforts.
More amazing tasty cookies, that are intoxicatingly good, a little less of the cake we're all just tired of. I really hope they eventually discover this, and try. I think the results could fundamentally shift the game from "almost" to "amazing.
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Fumbly and akward, indeed. The whole way UA bombing works is sketchy. It practically requires mode switching to collect enough UAs to matter. Yet, through that, one dedicated player can wreck stations whenever they feel like it, so long as a market is open.
And I still consider it a grudge against Fdev with how they diverted Jaques and all the hard work that was put into his launch away from the original destination of Beagle Point. Sure, folks have accepted Colonia now, but Beagle Point would have been so much cooler....
Choices are a good thing to have, and of course I'd like to see Elite include more options, when and where it's appropriate.
UA bombing is not at all appropriate, though. It's "bend the rules of the game for the sole sake of trolling and impeding other players". There's no personal gain from doing it. That's not the kind of "choice" we need or want.
Whew, I went through a Warframe binge myself too, until very recently. Made it to MR22 and unlocked the star chart. But....
I quit when I finally realized that DE *hates* completionists with a passion. Certainly, there no lack of things to do in that game...because almost all of it involves RNG grinding, or just straight-up grindwalls like the Daily Login Tribute system. I might dip my toes back in if I ever feel an interest in the Plains of Eidolon content, but right now, I just...don't, at all. Kinda keeping it around just if I feel the urge to play with other people, really.
That, and Warframe has the same issue Elite currently has of having power creep that's gone far off the deep end. Good thing that it's almost entirely PvE. I know they're doing a 'big' weapon balance pass soon but that's missing the point almost entirely, which is their massively flawed modding system, which in terms of design is very obviously copy+pasted from Mass Effect 1 - including all of the same flaws....
Come to think of it, their situation is quite similar to how Fdev has still missed the target regarding 'balance' and long-existing hitpoint inflation & power creep issues with update 3.0.
Nah, that's not true. Both DE and Fdev do the same thing, big updates and lots of small updates in between them. Though...it's certainly true that with Fdev it feels like they've not been making nearly as many small, QOL updates as they have in the past, which is a darn shame.
Fdev ought to have longer beta periods, I agree...but it'd help if they weren't doing things like committing to grandfathering and power creep....
I disagree about the 'done to a great standard'. Most of Warframe is still even today very unrefined and disjointed. I suppose it's a commentary on the 'horde shooter' phenomenon that the game is as successful as it is in spite of its flaws.
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I want to call this bit out, because it's important; choice isn't "only give me good options". Choice is essentially electing a consequence. You do one thing, thing A happens. You do a different thing, thing B happens. Choices have outcomes. They can have costs. Not all of them good. Elite is not a game that was ever going to be a set of mechanics where 100% only good things can be done. Whether something is appropriate comes down to each player to decide; but that doesn't include it's removal.
Is UA bombing a station (or a ship) a move? Sure. It really is. It's such a move. But Frontier did add it intentionally. Whether they got the balance between UA's and the MA required to mitigate their effects balanced? Oh god no. Of course not. But the solution there, is not to remove the mechanics; it's to recognise the balance isn't quite right, and petition Frontier to adjust the offset. So that either MA becomes a little more broadly available, or the counts required are reduced to a point where it's a little less effective as a lever.
People have a choice to UA bomb, and the choice to restore a station; two sides of the same coin. Those sorts of mechanics are very important. We can argue the execution all day long; and that's fair enough. But just removing all choices one personally doesn't approve of, is not a solution. Folks are at some point going to have to comprehend that Frontier can be best described as chaotic neutral in their approach to development. This will include moral ambiguity in choices.
The "it's not a choice I like, remove it" is no more sane than "just punish bad people". But this keeps coming up here, over and over again. And it keeps missing the point, over and over again. Seeking improvements is of course something to be encouraged. Wholesale repealing of anything that's not considered morally pure, is certainly not the same thing.
Moral ambiguity, exists as a part of the choices we make. Some choices have more extreme consequences. What's important is that they are well managed and extreme impacts contained; and that is something Frontier really needs to get a better handle on. But the developer has purposefully added choices. Some of them will be objectionable, depending on an elected play style, personal narrative or whatever one uses as an in game 'compass'. That, is 100% intentional.
We can all freely agree to disagree over the relative merits of almost anything; this does not automatically mean they should not exist, based on personal opinion.
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Anything that gets added to the game is 'intentional'. That doesn't make it a good move, nor does it mean that it's something Fdev anticipated when they designed UAs to have a corroding effect.
UA bombing is a bad move. Nothing would suffer if it were removed, beyond some sore egos. If Fdev wants to give us means to interfere with stations, there's any number of ways that would be much better and wouldn't have to involve something so janky as mode-switching to collect a hoard of magically metal-eating material that can only be combatted by a special magic type of metal (that also essentially has to be hoarded through mode-switching). Like the upcoming megaship interactions - what reason is there that couldn't be applied to normal stations and thereby give us a means of fooling around with a station's functionality that way?
I mean, isn't ollobrain's whole shtick on reddit is that he goes around UA-bombing anything he can, *just* to people off and demonstrate how broken the gimmick really is?
If this is the best "choice-creation" we can do, then yeah, I'd rather remove it and have nothing instead, until a time when Fdev can show us something better.
Though of course the point is all moot for me, so long as the combat divide issue exists.
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We can all see how Frontier have tried to pull the different threads and elements of the game together, I just don't think we're there yet. Elite needs to become more systemic and pull the different activities together to provide interesting and dynamic outcomes. My brother and I wing up to run missions often, we have npc pirates after us all the time. The fun comes when I submit to an interdiction so me, my brother and a pirate pop into an instance together. We never know if a pirate wanting my brother will drop out to join the fun too. So you've got four ships now engaging, add possible fighters and the fuzz popping by and you've got an emergent moment, where something unpredictable happens.
What I'd do for the poor pirates to say something...anything, other than "that's the ship I'm looking for, the one with the big haul" Come on Frontier, let the poor pirates use their words. I know there is a couple of other lines but it's a very static feeling when they start talking smack to you.
Obviously I've been talking about the combat fun that the game can provide to a couple of people in a wing. I want more of that in other areas. The mission updates are a good attempt at getting you to do something you weren't expecting, but its very limited. The time limits and alternate destination options are a bit too shallow to concern yourself with too much.
It will improve a lot this year I hope, but I do think there have been significant missteps in Frontiers -not easy task- of bringing the core systems together. Powerplay left me cold and planetary landings needs fleshing out.
It will get there, it just takes time. I'm still having fun, you just gotta remember to take breaks as roleplaying only gets you so far.
What I'd do for the poor pirates to say something...anything, other than "that's the ship I'm looking for, the one with the big haul"
Come on Frontier, let the poor pirates use their words. I know there is a couple of other lines but it's a very static feeling when they start talking smack to you.Obviously I've been talking about the combat fun that the game can provide to a couple of people in a wing. I want more of that in other areas. The mission updates are a good attempt at getting you to do something you weren't expecting, but its very limited. The time limits and alternate destination options are a bit too shallow to concern yourself with too much.
It will improve a lot this year I hope, but I do think there have been significant missteps in Frontiers -not easy task- of bringing the core systems together. Powerplay left me cold and planetary landings needs fleshing out.
It will get there, it just takes time. I'm still having fun, you just gotta remember to take breaks as roleplaying only gets you so far.