Why I Wanted Ship Interiors

[DemiserofD]

Your post is still based on a misreading of mine. And your argument is still a silly straw man.

No one ever implied CMDRs would leave their seat in combat.

And yes, developing ship interiors would involve playtime away from the pilot's chair. Another random observation that is in no germane.

Lol.
Well, lets have a look at the OP, shall we?

Let me run down to the engine room as red lights flash and my Verity repeats "Powerplant meltdown imminent - manual override required." Let me take a stroll to engineering and fabricate some PVP ammo. Most of all, let me get into a hatchbreaker limpit, launch myself at an enemy ship, and storm their bridge, guns blazing.

So in about 30 seconds I've already found one person who wants at least two ways of leaving the helm mid-combat. And that's not even getting into the problems of boarding a solo ship and forcing the defending captain to get out of his seat to fight off the intruder.

Unless you're proposing that players would seriously have enough multicrewmates to do these things. Given the failure of multicrew thus far, I'd find that...unlikely, at best.

And last of all,

captain doesn't leave the steering wheel in clutch situations in any of these type of games

Defining 'clutch' to literally mean 'any time the captain doesn't leave the chair, but ignoring all the times he does leave the chair, despite the fact that if you are leaving the chair, it's for a critical reason like fighting off an intruder', doesn't prove a point. It doesn't prove anything, in fact, other than the fact that you're trying to use silly linguistic tricks to argue dishonestly.

Get that business out of here.

 

[Dartay]

Lol.
Well, lets have a look at the OP, shall we?


So in about 30 seconds I've already found one person who wants at least two ways of leaving the helm mid-combat. And that's not even getting into the problems of boarding a solo ship and forcing the defending captain to get out of his seat to fight off the intruder.

Unless you're proposing that players would seriously have enough multicrewmates to do these things. Given the failure of multicrew thus far, I'd find that...unlikely, at best.

And last of all,




Defining 'clutch' to literally mean 'any time the captain doesn't leave the chair, but ignoring all the times he does leave the chair, despite the fact that if you are leaving the chair, it's for a critical reason like fighting off an intruder', doesn't prove a point. It doesn't prove anything, in fact, other than the fact that you're trying to use silly linguistic tricks to argue dishonestly.

Get that business out of here.

Not anywhere did anyone imply erasing current ED gameplay, or copypasting SoT unto ED. All of the OP examples you mention could (and should) be limited to a 'Seatbelt lights off' type state e.g. a safe orbit.

Your post makes no sense and your strawmanning is dishonest.

 

[Jibroni Gibironi]

That's not a very good example. We run the ISS with a handful of people because we can't afford to put 250 up there, not because we don't want to. If something serious breaks on the ISS, we have a team of thousands working to figure out how to fix it, to construct the right parts to do so, etc.

As far as size is concerned, the most modern example would probably be the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constellation-class_frigate , which is a modern navy ship roughly the same size as an Anaconda. It has a crew of about 200 people.

The main difference between a navy ship and an airliner is the ship can turn its engines off and it wont sink. That gives it sustainability where airplanes have none. That means that a navy ship needs to be prepared to fight for prolonged periods and repair itself, while an airplane is meant to return to base. If an airplane is damaged mid-flight, you're not going to be able to patch it up, good as new; you switch to a backup or duct tape it together and hope it holds until the mission is over.

You're talking size. That frigate you linked weighs almost 8,000 tons. A space ship designed like an Anaconda would drop like a brick as soon as it meets even a light atmosphere weighing that much. Its not just the length I'm referring to. And no, a space ship, when in atmospheric flight can't just turn off its engines. You're comparing apples to oranges, something designed to sail on water versus something designed to FLY, both in space and planetside. And if a navy sea vessel gets damaged enough, its returning to base just like any airplane. Also, even in airplanes, if something serious breaks you have dozens on the ground telling them what to do. And sometimes they can fix it good as new. If they can't, they order replacements. That's how this works.

 

[Jibroni Gibironi]

Friendly warning,, I have yet to see a back and forth with @DemiserofD come to an end. Embark on the Neverending Journey at your risk.

o7

Well, not like we have much else to talk about since the game is an utter disaster.

 

[DemiserofD]

Not anywhere did anyone imply erasing current ED gameplay, or copypasting SoT unto ED.

Have any of ya'll played Sea of Thieves? That was, in essence, my dream for this game.

 

[djadjok]

That being said - these games all have some sort of crafting/base building (and have more detailed/complex storage/inventory). If Elite even had interiors they'd probably be pretty static with the only options being cosmetics.

I'm not so sure now that the "base building" is not something reserved for us already in Odyssey engine (while I must admit I do oppose to that idea in ED universe).

I'm staring to be aware that - contrary to Horizons - there are quite a few assets that are procedurally distributed/placed during generation phase of a settlement, and that's not only concerns "essentials" like interactive objects. Some apparently "static" decorations could be also involved (and I do not speak here about just writings/pictograms/screens)

Just by pure coincidence - for quite different discussion - I've created an image of the floor plan of one of the buildings interiors overlayed with an Anaconda profile. Hope I have't messed up the dimensions/scales. That one could be useful for this thread....

USUAL DISCLAIMER: The image below contain the map of the in-game asset. Don't look under the spoiler if you think that this can spoil your in-game experience.

Spoiler

 

[Gunther_Bladderburst]

Let me do a 5 minutes walk along a corridor everytime I want to fuel scoop. Let me be buggered to go fix a problem deep in the ship at inconvenient moments. Let me take a stroll along the bridge… 3 times before I get bored. This will take months of men hours to do but hey I’ll have one stroll before I get bored… because we all know that just walking never gets boring.

Remember the long strolls from point A to point B? Remember the very long elevator rides to camouflage loading? Well I want that because even though in other games it’s tedious, THIS TIME it will be very fun.

I want to fix ship components with either quick time events or watching a 10 seconds animation every time. It will never get old.

Gud darnit I want to walk in ships. I don’t want new content, I want to make every activity a chore. Remember how it was great in Silent Hunter 5? Let’s do that again! Walking from point a to b!

 

[Dartay]

Again, taking details OP didn't specify, filling them out in the dumbest way you can imagine, and then basing your entire argument around them is a boring and transparent trick.

It's also getting very repetitive.

 

[Bobbydylan]

Just because DBOBE says the ships are being designed with interiors in mind doesn't mean it actually happened down the line. Scaling on several ships pretty much confirms they weren't.

You clearly know more about it than the director of the company. I trust you.

 

[Peacebringer]

How can interiors make any sense in that game?

• you could sleep somewhere
• you could manage your warehouse
• you could repair some modules manually
• you could invade ships
• you could steal modules, goods, data and materials from ships
• you could walk around your SRV and watch your suits
• you could prepare a virtual coffee with foamed milk
• you could talk to crew members

All this does not make sense during a fight, but could be entertaining during long explorer travels. Especially for huge ships this could be large. Just imagine a carrier ship! This would be a complete city, not just an "interior". And yes, FDev could create complete new missions on-foot in stations, carriers or other capital ships. Imagine you could enter a generations ship and find cryo capsules, search for life and wander in an organic-mechanic sci-fi environment!

But as you can see, all this opens a gate into much, much work.

For now, it is not bad to just look around in your cockpit.

 

[Andarni]

...... Um, no dude, not just small vessels. This also applies to airliners. I know better than you, because I used to be a flight dispatcher for an air freight company. They ALWAYS came with at least one mechanic.



.....You're still making the same mistake the O.P is making by comparing what is required to operate a sea vessel to an aircraft. A better comparison would be something like the International Space Station. It doesn't require 250 people to operate it, just a handful. Nor would it require 250 people to operate an Anaconda, because you are grossly over estimating the true size of it. Its no where near as big as as a Navy ship. Most navy ships are over 1,000 feet long with the smallest being north of 750 feet, especially air craft carriers. The anaconda is barely 500 feet long. Naval ships also weigh hundreds of thousands of tons pal. And the average Frigate Naval vessel weighs thousands of tons more than an Anaconda. If the Anaconda really is as big overall as a legit naval vessel, the damn thing wouldn't even be able to get off the ground. ....The captain, First Officer and maybe two or three mechanics would be all you'd need to operate it at the most. So like I said, we need to start critically thinking through our idea's and getting our facts straight if we want FDEV to take our idea's about ship interior gameplay seriously.

Source: https://media.giphy.com/media/h36vh423PiV9K/giphy.gif

I'm sorry but I have absolutely no idea about what you are talking about. The Federal corvette EMPTY hull weights 900 tonnes, it can fit up to 600 tonnes of cargo plus around 1000 tonnes only in internal compartments, thats 2500 tonnes only with cargo and internal components. The Admiral Gorshkov-class frigate has a displacement of 4500 tonnes with standard outfitting, cargo, components and crew taken into account. In meters an Admiral Gorshkov-class frigate ship mesures 135m x16m x aprox 10m (4,5m draught), the Federal Corvette is 167.8m x 87.2m x 28.3m, the Federal Corvette is actually WAY bigger in volume than a AG Class frigate. 210 crew has the AG Class Frigate. What is the mistake again? Maybe you also need to start thinking about your ideas to start being taken seriously .

 

[cheesenbiscuits]

Let me do a 5 minutes walk along a corridor everytime I want to fuel scoop. Let me be buggered to go fix a problem deep in the ship at inconvenient moments. Let me take a stroll along the bridge… 3 times before I get bored. This will take months of men hours to do but hey I’ll have one stroll before I get bored… because we all know that just walking never gets boring.

Remember the long strolls from point A to point B? Remember the very long elevator rides to camouflage loading? Well I want that because even though in other games it’s tedious, THIS TIME it will be very fun.

I want to fix ship components with either quick time events or watching a 10 seconds animation every time. It will never get old.

Gud darnit I want to walk in ships. I don’t want new content, I want to make every activity a chore. Remember how it was great in Silent Hunter 5? Let’s do that again! Walking from point a to b!

Seeing you prefer a "fade to black" to "save time",would you prefer the SRV transition to revert to "fade to black"?
Ignoring all the fidelity that could come with interiors,the actual base requirement is to put in those transitions in,with respect to saving time ,the Sidewinder has an emergency exit and its main entrance is directly behind the pilot so quick access technically shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Jibroni Gibironi]

I'm sorry but I have absolutely no idea about what you are talking about. The Federal corvette EMPTY hull weights 900 tonnes, it can fit up to 600 tonnes of cargo plus around 1000 tonnes only in internal compartments, thats 2500 tonnes only with cargo and internal components. The Admiral Gorshkov-class frigate has a displacement of 4500 tonnes with standard outfitting, cargo, components and crew taken into account. In meters an Admiral Gorshkov-class frigate ship mesures 135m x16m x aprox 10m (4,5m draught), the Federal Corvette is 167.8m x 87.2m x 28.3m, the Federal Corvette is actually WAY bigger in volume than a AG Class frigate. 210 crew has the AG Class Frigate. What is the mistake again? Maybe you also need to start thinking about your ideas to start being taken seriously .

......Um...consider your source, and think about your last sentence, then come back once you've thought it through.

 

[Jibroni Gibironi]

How can interiors make any sense in that game?

• you could sleep somewhere
• you could manage your warehouse
• you could repair some modules manually
• you could invade ships
• you could steal modules, goods, data and materials from ships
• you could walk around your SRV and watch your suits
• you could prepare a virtual coffee with foamed milk
• you could talk to crew members

All this does not make sense during a fight, but could be entertaining during long explorer travels. Especially for huge ships this could be large. Just imagine a carrier ship! This would be a complete city, not just an "interior". And yes, FDev could create complete new missions on-foot in stations, carriers or other capital ships. Imagine you could enter a generations ship and find cryo capsules, search for life and wander in an organic-mechanic sci-fi environment!

But as you can see, all this opens a gate into much, much work.

For now, it is not bad to just look around in your cockpit.

you could sleep somewhere

Why?

you could manage your warehouse

Warehouse? You mean cargo bay?

you could repair some modules manually

It would certainly help to have a mechanic on your crew, that way you don't have to fork over money to do it. It'd be helpful if he could "clean" the module as well to make it legal again.

you could invade ships

Ok...why?

you could steal modules, goods, data and materials from ships

Well, I recall you already being able to do that so.

you could walk around your SRV and watch your suits

The game is already enough of a bore fest, don't need more added to it.

you could prepare a virtual coffee with foamed milk

Why?

you could talk to crew members

But....for what purpose? What does it achieve?

 

[Andarni]

......Um...consider your source, and think about your last sentence, then come back once you've thought it through.

Excuse me but it is considered bad manner to have someone discussing numbers and replying without making clear your counter argument so, until you explain what you dont agree with, I will assume you have grossly understimated sizes and weights in Elite Dangerous and that, for all we know, big ships in Elite are way more similar to frigate class navy ships than any airplane. Have a nice day.

 

[Jibroni Gibironi]

Let me do a 5 minutes walk along a corridor everytime I want to fuel scoop. Let me be buggered to go fix a problem deep in the ship at inconvenient moments. Let me take a stroll along the bridge… 3 times before I get bored. This will take months of men hours to do but hey I’ll have one stroll before I get bored… because we all know that just walking never gets boring.

Remember the long strolls from point A to point B? Remember the very long elevator rides to camouflage loading? Well I want that because even though in other games it’s tedious, THIS TIME it will be very fun.

I want to fix ship components with either quick time events or watching a 10 seconds animation every time. It will never get old.

Gud darnit I want to walk in ships. I don’t want new content, I want to make every activity a chore. Remember how it was great in Silent Hunter 5? Let’s do that again! Walking from point a to b!

I totally get what you are saying. I was only offering the mechanic gameplay as an option, as literally the ONLY reason why you'd want to leave the cockpit. And at that, it won't be you anyway if you aren't in the mechanic role so. You have people pretending that what are essentially aircraft will require hundreds of people to operate when that is not at all the case.

 

[Jibroni Gibironi]

Excuse me but it is considered bad manner to have someone discussing numbers and replying without making clear your counter argument so, until you explain what you dont agree with, I will assume you have grossly understimated sizes and weights in Elite Dangerous and that, for all we know, big ships in Elite are way more similar to frigate class navy ships than any airplane. Have a nice day.

Source: https://media.giphy.com/media/l4HnKwiJJaJQB04Zq/giphy.gif


Dude, you asked me what the MISTAKE was. The Federal Corvette only requires three people max to actually safely operate. The AG Class frigate, a SEA VESSEL, requires over 200 people to operate. I made it very clear that they are NOT the same type of machines at all, and you just proved my point. Sea vessels require more, because they don't work like machines that fly. Totally different machines. Meanwhile, we have the O.P using Sea of Thieves to get his idea's from, a game that not only has ZERO to do with aerodynamic gameplay, but takes place at a time so long ago they didn't even have real toilets. ...

 

[Jace Harriman]

this is gameplay, but a lot of the gameplay is already in the game in some easier form, from the pilot's seat. So... it's just making something more complicated so that people can do it with their hands, I guess? In a space ship that can be equipped with systems that allow it to fix itself?

You can install a module that allows your ship to land itself. Doesn't stop a lot of players from preferring the manual alternative. Maybe it's faster. Maybe you'd prefer to actively be doing something rather than passively waiting. Maybe you want/need that module slot for something else as part of your build. All that logic could just as easily apply to manual repairs vs limpets.

Besides, it's not like a little redundancy is gonna hurt anyone. We're able to interact with Engineers both on foot and from our cockpit, and the world hasn't ended. Probably not that big a deal.

 

[Gunther_Bladderburst]

Seeing you prefer a "fade to black" to "save time",would you prefer the SRV transition to revert to "fade to black"?
Ignoring all the fidelity that could come with interiors,the actual base requirement is to put in those transitions in,with respect to saving time ,the Sidewinder has an emergency exit and its main entrance is directly behind the pilot so quick access technically shouldn't be an issue.

Any fade to black is preferable to endlessly walking again and again from point a to b in a sterile environment where nothing happens. But you all seem to conveniently forget that.

People also do not grasp how much work is required. Even if a static door is modelled at the back of this or that, it’s another thing to make it workable first person.

« oh yeah but the door of the sidewinder makes it easy. » Yeah assuming that it’s easy… the door on the starting ship that everybody dumps as soon as they can, nowadays after around 2 hours of gameplay.

 

[Mark Zero]

You can install a module that allows your ship to land itself. Doesn't stop a lot of players from preferring the manual alternative. Maybe it's faster. Maybe you'd prefer to actively be doing something rather than passively waiting. Maybe you want/need that module slot for something else as part of your build. All that logic could just as easily apply to manual repairs vs limpets.

Besides, it's not like a little redundancy is gonna hurt anyone. We're able to interact with Engineers both on foot and from our cockpit, and the world hasn't ended. Probably not that big a deal.

Fair points. But I guess what I'm getting at is that acting like the game is broken, unplayable, and garbage just because you fix your ship from a holographic panel instead of by walking up to a hole in the hull and welding it shut is kind of a disingenuous temper tantrum.

I can see the potential benefit of that gameplay loop, of course. Having a ship interior could mean that combat brings the added risk of hull breach attacks de-pressurizing the ship in a similar way to having your canopy cracked. Maybe folks would enjoy the idea of having to retreat from combat to conduct manual repairs on an internal hull breach, or a component whose integrity was compromised by a railgun shot. Of course... if you're away from your pilot's seat to do that, and the guy shooting at you has an FSD Wake Scanner... well... enjoy your gameplay at the rebuy screen, I guess?

I get the potential. But I feel that acting like Elite is some broken, non-functional insult of a game whose developers personally lied to you over that gameplay loop not being present is pretty dishonest. Especially since right now for many people, Elite is a broken, non-functional insult of a game because of performance issues, lack of optimization, and bad UI/UX design.