Why isn't there an ingame galaxy wide market trader/track?

[JS_Starlance]

Which is either just dumb lore, or an outright cop-out. The fact that there isn't bubble-wide market info is silly and unrealistic.

There should at least be bubble-wide EOD/SOD market reports published with the tick, with each station having real-time updated info for all markets within a smaller radius, say 50-100 Ly.

I mean, it's 2017 and we have Bloomberg for Christ's sake... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_data_vendor

I believe that if this is ever implemented and the BGS really works correctly with the resulting "perfect" market data, everything will tends to "0" or "1" (depending on your view of economics).

In this situation, would the result be everyone just scraping along for razor thin margins and thus really destroy the independent traders that all players are?

I think "imperfect" market data allows the traders the ability to maximise profits, if they are able improve on the accuracy of that data beyond what is commonly available.

In this sense, it's probably better for FD to not bother with any further development and employ the "cop-out" as pointed out above...

 

[sb413197]

Agree one million percent TS. This NEEDS to be in the core gameplay improvement update. If it isn't, there will be a lot of very upset people. Time for this game to leave alpha.

 

[Tarman]

This. FD promised this a couple of years ago, and even started discussions on what we want from an API. Then they went quiet and nothing happened...

I would like to be able to read all the data that I collect as I travel (e.g. all trade data from the space station I'm docked at), so that I can use it for my personal use (i.e. find good trades on routes that I commonly take). I know that there are some third-party tools that offer this, but I'd rather write my own that does exactly what I want.

Yes, this. If FD make ANY tool, it should be a tool that lets us do stuff to the HUD. No 100000-option on/off toggle field, but a way to create and edit more datafeeds ourselves so if you want:

or:

- you'd be able to feed yourself as much or as little data as required in a fashion that makes most sense to you and your current ship's abilities and mission. Provide a save bank of them (enough from the start please, begging for saveslots from FD even for stuff like More Than One Intricate Character Model and Basic Game Loot is like starring in Oliver Twist >___> ), and voila, everyone gets the dash they want for every ship and scenario. If we added colour change to this feature it would be pure gravy at that point, but You KNOW you want to switch to the red-primary combat config in times of danger.

I've recently been messing around with a Roccat Power Grid to use on my old phone (thanks to this thread) and it seems like that level of customization for HUD elements would add a huge chunk of functionality and personalization to the game for any player. The data is certainly there, down to ridiculous detail levels. Give us ACCESS to the data and let us decide for ourselves how much our eyes bleed.



Also, @ Vindelanos, yeah I can see what you mean, but this is also the future where we're shot to pieces in a parking bay with a hold full of passengers because of a parking violation. I don't expect too much of it as a world to begin with, so a bunch of weird draconian overrules don't bother me except from usually gameplay perspectives.

For gameplay though I would completely ditch and/or alter whatever reason they have going for market-based data running as a viable spaceman career because that is cooler than any reason not to have this. It could also add some nice permanent underpinning to the small-ship-based career portfolio, would detach "data courier" as a profession from being based almost entirely on random mission assignment, as well as create a profitable sideline for larger vessels (you can't carry "more" of it than a small ship) who need larger revenues for op costs anyway. Make a military version with a more dangerous set of courier missions involving moar risk and pew and it can assist with creating a more martial career path.

Now I almost wish I hadn't thought about all this because I really want it after imagining it. ;_____;

 

[xondk]

yet again justifying bad game design with that 'show'? software architecture is a tool, not a goal in itself.

plus there is a market tool (made by *users*) based on historical data. at some point they even went to the extreme to implement ocr to gather it ... but sorry, you were quoting some nonsense about mongodb and transactions? please continue

Sorry, but you are forgetting a few things.
1: This is not a bad 'game' design, it is at worst a user interface issue.
2: Elite has to find the balance, of what most people want because it will never be what everyone wants, that is simply impossible.

Here's the thing, what I see very often, is that people use the tools to only get the 'best' routes, this leads to rather uninspiring events happening, amongst others pirates easily find and camp those routes and then people complain about that.
The tools are great, that isn't the issue, the issue is avoiding the "i will only do the 'best' missions/traderoutes" whatever that many players seem to have, when they can basically go anywhere, currently explore a little and then find what they need, it is far from impossible. But many games of late do not seem to want, things to promote exploration, to promote you doing stuff on your own? just want a "tell me where to go to get x" situations rather then, "Lets see what is around this or this corner" which Elite seems to be aiming towards. You can go anywhere, do missions, do trades and the difference in payout is...insanely small at least in my eyes, and you get to see many interesting things that way as well.

 

[Kingtutuk]

Requesting a Market Price list when you enter a system would not be too bad, as you could in Frontier Elite 2 days. Now though you should be able to scan the Nav Beacon and get information from there regarding all stations Market Prices.
e.g= Enter System, Scan Nav Beacon (this may require defensive tactics on a players part ), A list of stations is displayed, player selects which station to view or maybe download Market Price list.
Just a thought [money].

 

[babelfisch]

While I do agree that the current situation isn't ideal, comparing prices galaxy wide wouldn't be ideal either. This comes from someone who does make profit from trading without relying on 3rd party tools.

Also please stop making it sound like it would be 'obviously such a good addition' or so 'realistic'... It isn't, you just don't like to find good trade routes yourself. Which is fine, it's a valid opinion, but it doesn't make your opinion better than mine.

Problem with galaxy wide trade data is simply that everyone would go for the single best trade route and it wouldn't require any effort (without effort there can't be gratification) apart from flying from a to b.

We can already buy trade data in a 20 ly bubble (IIRC?), how about it also shows the prices? Or how about we get some tools to remember the prices of the last visited stations? Would that be a compromise trade-off (pun intended)?

 

[Crank Larson]

While I do agree that the current situation isn't ideal, comparing prices galaxy wide wouldn't be ideal either. This comes from someone who does make profit from trading without relying on 3rd party tools.

I agree. I also don't usually use the third party tools, simply because I can make more profit without them. I do use them when I am looking for a specific commodity (though if I could extract and store the market data from systems I've visited, I would no longer have to use them for that).

 

[askavir]

Although I wouldn't mind better trading tools, I also don't think the game should simply hand me over the top trade route.

I would like to see something like the community-based trading sites functionality builtin into the game: the game would remember the prices from the last time you visited a station, and update them when you visited again, but no more than that.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

I think a good compromise would be one similar to the exploration data mechanic, i.e. As players visit markets, they passively collect data and pass it on to subsequent markets that they visit. The data for each market would be independent of the tick, and could have a last update indicator, designating for the player the age of the market data. To help maintain cleanliness, data older than 3 days could be purged at the tick.

That's just an idea...

 

[CAPT. Ho Chi Minge]

something something i win button , finding the routes is part of the fun ... a couple of posts ive seen from players who actually like this type of trade play.

@Tarman .. that 2nd screenie would be amazing if all the bells and whistles worked and told you different information about the environment around you. many plus ones , hope eventually that the cockpit becomes similar to this.

FD please make this happen , pwetty pwetty pweez....

 

[Ralph Vargr]

Look what happened when the third party dev's went on strike, and then tell me that Frontier isn't relying on them to make the game playable.

 

[Deareim]

Because grind and it would be nice.

Use tc mk II.

 

[zinzaemon]

Don't know about anyone else, but when I moved into an area, I used to screenshot and collate local system data out of game (like trade info for example).
I don't do this anymore because I'm not fracking insane and really prefer to play the game rather than plan to play the game..
I gather there are 3rd party apps that can do this but whichever way you cut it, I cannot see any reason why I should have to do this outside of the game interface and have pretty much given up on trading because of it.

I see no reason why we can't have a non-combat utility, like say...a trade computer...that stores market info of visited systems as a snapshot to create a rough history of prices (i.e no live updates until revisiting system, so market fluctuations could still be a factor) Even this feels incredibly antiquated, but would be an infinitely better experience than what I was largely forced into doing before.

Let's face it. Earning Cr is a total non-issue in this game so you do something for the enjoyment of it. Trading could be a fun mini-game, but not for me in it's current implementation.

 

[TheSisko]

There has to be more than min-max to trading.

If I was to apply Elite Trading Logic to say, my desire to buy a 4K TV later this year, the only place I'd buy it from would be the cheapest, everything and everyone else would be irrelevant.

When I do decide to buy a 4K TV, it would be down to stuff like what brand is it, do I get special discounts with it, do I get anything else with it, would me buying from that seller entitle me to any loyalty points for that market, etc.

Off the top of my head, you could have System A selling Beer for cheap, but wait! System B is going to throw in 1 ton of Animal Meat for every 10 tons of Beer purchased! If I was going to an outbreak system, that would make me think that System B maybe the better seller. Maybe not. But at least it would give me something to think about other than "that's the cheapest, here I come System A!!"

You could even have Trade Embargos for systems at war. In short there's loads of ways to make trading more interesting, lets hope FD follow through in 3.0.

 

[Spacecat]

This is why I pretty much stopped doing commodity source and return missions. Too annoying flying around randomly searching, even with the trade route info, it always took forever to find anything.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I'll tell you why.

Go read The Dark Wheel. Read about how the protangonists traded.

The devs want people discovering prices by visiting systems. Not sitting looking at numbers without moving. They want people taking risks on trades. Seeking out profitable routes for themselves.

One reason its so hard to make a trade killings is because everyone can just look up the most profitable routes via their favourite tool and any highly profitable routes are quickly killed. Basically people are being rewarded for looking at generated trade opportunities instead of using their noggin to sniff out good trade routes.

I guess the real trade experts don't run tools that pipe into public databases, and sniff out routes away from core systems in the attempt to find good routes before the hoi poloi arrive to destroy the profits.

 

[Grisnir]

I'll tell you why.

Go read The Dark Wheel. Read about how the protangonists traded.

The devs want people discovering prices by visiting systems. Not sitting looking at numbers without moving. They want people taking risks on trades. Seeking out profitable routes for themselves.

One reason its so hard to make a trade killings is because everyone can just look up the most profitable routes via their favourite tool and any highly profitable routes are quickly killed. Basically people are being rewarded for looking at generated trade opportunities instead of using their noggin to sniff out good trade routes.

I guess the real trade experts don't run tools that pipe into public databases, and sniff out routes away from core systems in the attempt to find good routes before the hoi poloi arrive to destroy the profits.

i think most people don't like to poking around in the dark, and the trade infos in game are useless (those funny colorful lines) and even applying logic doesn't work sometimes. and for myself, i like cold hard numbers and pricelists
but you don't get those ingame without wasting a lot of time

 

[insanephoton]

I'll tell you why.

Go read The Dark Wheel. Read about how the protangonists traded.

The devs want people discovering prices by visiting systems. Not sitting looking at numbers without moving. They want people taking risks on trades. Seeking out profitable routes for themselves.

One reason its so hard to make a trade killings is because everyone can just look up the most profitable routes via their favourite tool and any highly profitable routes are quickly killed. Basically people are being rewarded for looking at generated trade opportunities instead of using their noggin to sniff out good trade routes.

I guess the real trade experts don't run tools that pipe into public databases, and sniff out routes away from core systems in the attempt to find good routes before the hoi poloi arrive to destroy the profits.

How much of 'The Dark Wheel' is still canon? Holo-me rather makes a mockery of the lore. In a universe where you can have trans-galactic real time transmission of a full colour hologram representation of a person such that that they are able to remotely control a fighter from the other side of the galaxy it's difficult to believe that anyone could control the flow of trade data. Anyway the easiest way to make a killing by trading is stock up on meds and look for notices of outbreaks. Not that trading is anywhere near the quickest way to make money.

 

[duckofdeath]

The unknown data for stations you're currently not parked at is one of the core mechanics of the whole game. It makes little sense, yes, but so does maximum boost speed, 7 km scan range for a 80 ton sensor, ships melting from heat when boosting but flies cool as an ice cube within the corona of a star...
It's a game. It's not a real life simulation. The game has rules set to work along a lot of other game rules.
Another game related example, chess... Why on earth is the horse jumping to the side every fliuching time it moves? And why is the queen the deadliest combatant in the battle? Because a game needs a few easily defined rules. You not knowing for certain if you're making a big profit or not before you dock, even though you can read GalNet news in real time from Beagle Point, is part of this game.

 

[Darkfyre99]

Which is either just dumb lore, or an outright cop-out. The fact that there isn't bubble-wide market info is silly and unrealistic.

There should at least be bubble-wide EOD/SOD market reports published with the tick, with each station having real-time updated info for all markets within a smaller radius, say 50-100 Ly.

I mean, it's 2017 and we have Bloomberg for Christ's sake... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_data_vendor

Of course, Bloomberg doesn't have to worry about criminal cartel bombing their offices, killing their reporters, and putting bounties on their stockholders, simply to maximize the profits they make by shortchanging those who supply them, and overcharging the people they supply. Add in short sighted corporate states and corrupt politicians, who also benefit from preserving the status quo, and you get the Elite Universe of 3303.