Why no 3rd person?

[lysan]

There is no first person in Mass Effect, does anyone know why?

Well, I'm okay with it in 3rd person, its a SP game and that is just how the game works.
I'm also okay with Witcher being 3rd person and a lot of other games.

Just not in game where you fight with other people, and that is mostly due to the game experience and the "cheating" of 3rd person.

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It genuinely surprises me just how vehemently against this some people are despite the obvious lack of any meaningful effect it would have on them. Its baffles me why anyone in their right mind would oppose more options. Sure say it's not a priority or you think it would be wasted effort but the level of often pretty unpleasant opposition purely on the ground of... honestly I don't even know. Some kind of prejudice against 3rd person view games I suppose. Maybe a general defensiveness about ED because of all the flack it gets? Fear of someone gaining some kind of advantage out of it is the only reason that holds any water but is so simply countered both in terms of its validity when so many advantages already exist (scanner, trackIR/VR) and the simplicity of avoiding it anyway (disable in open). Beyond that it seems to boil down to "No, because I (or Frontier) said so.." or "because I don't want it no one should have it"

Well that sort of reasoning hasn't worked on me for a very long time. It's issues like this that are keeping me away from ED altogether and the frankly ugly nature of sections of the community doesn't help either.

If you have played games where it matters a lot like DayZ and ArmA, you would know why. FPS will come to Elite too, hence the same effect will hit the game.

 

[Infidel Deity]

Surely a good way of bringing the 3rd person view into the game without breaking immersion, or any other kind of -ism, would be to have a camera limpet control module that controls a limpet or two with a camera for external viewing.

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Oh, my bad.

You'll see them when we get our legs. [big grin]

 

[CMDR Cillian Raynor]

i don't need 3rd person (in any type of game when given the choice i always use 1st) but could we at least make the external camera a bit LESS stupid to handle? Like i'm sure it could be made else awkward and aggravating to handle while still remaining unusable in combat. I like taking pictures.

 

[Soulstain]

I could go on. Did anyone mention that Total War doesn't offer First Person?

PS

How about this one: Why no first person in Dark Souls?!

How about you actually compare apples to apples instead of apples to oranges? Elite is suppose to be a sim. Sims have 3rd person. It's billed as a flight/space sim. I've never known one to not have 3rd person view. You want to call it a sim then it should have sim features. The tactical advantage nonsense is exactly that, nonsense. If your opponent is using 3rd person during a dogfight then it's not him with the advantage it's you. Only arcade games like warbirds use 3rd person for actual combat. Reality is this game is much more arcade than sim in almost every regard so I really don't understand the arguement!

 

[Joe Akeem]

I'm curious about another update incoming: Character Creation. I sure as hell wont spend hours finetuning my avatar because A) I'll rarely crew up with anyone and B) I can't see the glorious mug of my pilot.

In fact...I'm gonna make him an abomination so fugly his mother denounced him. Because...I can't see him, but you will. *chuckles*

 

[WeirdWizard]

If you have played games where it matters a lot like DayZ and ArmA, you would know why. FPS will come to Elite too, hence the same effect will hit the game.

Different games entirely, space has no corners. It's also pretty debatable if ED is really a PvP game or should have it's solo playability further compromised based on PvP concerns. But as I said that argument at least holds some water except it's so easy to design around. No 3rd person in open = 100% solved.

 

[Insomnia]

I could go on. Did anyone mention that Total War doesn't offer First Person?

PS

How about this one: Why no first person in Dark Souls?!

Why no first person in Fifa? Or Sim City? Or World of Warcraft... oh wait... it has first person!

 

[babelfisch]

How about you actually compare apples to apples instead of apples to oranges? Elite is suppose to be a sim. Sims have 3rd person. It's billed as a flight/space sim. I've never known one to not have 3rd person view. You want to call it a sim then it should have sim features. The tactical advantage nonsense is exactly that, nonsense. If your opponent is using 3rd person during a dogfight then it's not him with the advantage it's you. Only arcade games like warbirds use 3rd person for actual combat. Reality is this game is much more arcade than sim in almost every regard so I really don't understand the arguement!

No. It's not supposed to be a sim, I think it was Mike Evans who was very clear on that the last time we discussed it, they are creating a game not a sim. My off topic comments regarding games with one single view have more revelance to the topic than the whole Sim VS Advantages argument. I already said it 15 pages ago, the reason is a design decision, not multiplayer.

They could implement a 3rd person view, but it would be completely useless and buggy because your camera would clip all the time and the gameplay would feel completely wrong because everything they did so far is focused on a first person view. That's the reason most other developers just create one view as well. It is way easier to to guide the player through a game and just let him see what they want him to see. Skyrim for exampel has an abysmal 3rd person view and you only really can use it to look at your character, that's the case for almost all games which allow you to change between first and third person. I completely agree that FDEV should improve the debug cam, give us more and better options to see our ships, even allow us to control the ship, as long as there is no HUD. Sadly this suggestion gets derailed every time because some people feel the need to discuss 3rd person combat. They are two different requests, the first one would get lots of support from the community and even FDEV, the second one is just a waste of time.

 

[Insomnia]

No. It's not supposed to be a sim, I think it was Mike Evans who was very clear on that the last time we discussed it, they are creating a game not a sim. My off topic comments regarding games with one single view have more revelance to the topic than the whole Sim VS Advantages argument. I already said it 15 pages ago, the reason is a design decision, not multiplayer.

They could implement a 3rd person view, but it would be completely useless and buggy because your camera would clip all the time and the gameplay would feel completely wrong because everything they did so far is focused on a first person view. That's the reason most other developers just create one view as well. It is way easier to to guide the player through a game and just let him see what they want him to see. Skyrim for exampel has an abysmal 3rd person view and you only really can use it to look at your character, that's the case for almost all games which allow you to change between first and third person. I completely agree that FDEV should improve the debug cam, give us more and better options to see our ships, even allow us to control the ship, as long as there is no HUD. Sadly this suggestion gets derailed every time because some people feel the need to discuss 3rd person combat. They are two different requests, the first one would get lots of support from the community and even FDEV, the second one is just a waste of time.

I think Elite Dangerous is a sim just like Gran turismo is a sim. Not hardcore, but still a sim. Star Citizen is a game though despite its physics.

Skyrim does feature a 3rd person cam and it really suits exploration as you get a better perception of the scale. Same would apply to Elite as well imo.
A debug cam with the ability to steer. That's all I want. Steer the ship with your HOTAS in debug cam mode while orienting around your ship with your mouse.

 

[Joe Akeem]

...
A debug cam with the ability to steer. That's all I want. Steer the ship with your HOTAS in debug cam mode while orienting around your ship with your mouse.

That's all I'm asking for as well. Cinematic immersion <---- Yeah, I went there.

 

[babelfisch]

I think Elite Dangerous is a sim just like Gran turismo is a sim. Not hardcore, but still a sim. Star Citizen is a game though despite its physics.

Skyrim does feature a 3rd person cam and it really suits exploration as you get a better perception of the scale. Same would apply to Elite as well imo.
A debug cam with the ability to steer. That's all I want. Steer the ship with your HOTAS in debug cam mode while orienting around your ship with your mouse.

As said above, I think most people would agree with that since it's pretty much useless gameplay wise. Those who ask for 3rd person combat would disagree though and go on a forum rampage because the game is unplayable in 3rd person (you just can't do anything right...). It would create more heat than the AI discussion.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

i think the sim/not sim is a red herring.

FSX is a sim and has external views
iracing is a sim but doesnt have external views.

imo the lack of 3rd person is primarily 3 reasons.

1) its a design choice from the devs who want the game to be played from the CMDRs eyes
2) for being unfair to those who choose to play as the devs want it to be, but playing competitively with others who did use it.
3) taking time and resources to get it right.

Now technically only having it in solo would fix some of the issues, however if that happened then players in open would (with some justification) complain that open was being hard done by.

I am sure with careful balanicing and consideration 3rd person view COULD be supported - it would have to be with a longish cooldown between swapping so as to not destroy stealth play - but given how much actual planned content is missing from the game, imo it is unlikley the devs will spend precious time balancing a feature that they themselves do not even want in there.

As I said I no longer care if it is put in there (when I still had hope for open I was dead against it) but I think for those in open who want to play "the devs vision" would be right to be concerned about it.

 

[AztecScribe]

I would love to be able to play the game in third person. I think when VR starts being used more prevalent they should add it to counter the advantages VR gets over non VR.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

the thing with VR, advantage wise it is no better than 3 screens and trackIR, and with the added downsides of lower resolution.

however, its a valid point BUT VR enhances the vision of the devs which is to play the game from the CMDRs eyes and VR gives presence which is what FD are gunning for. Any advantage of gameplay is a side effect.

imo 3rd person detracts from the devs vision.

The entire dev cam view was an olive branch thrown from the devs after players in a similar thread 18 months ago claimed it was only for space candy and not for combat. It did not take a genius or a fortune teller to see that that "giving and inch" would not last long however.

 

[babelfisch]

I would love to be able to play the game in third person. I think when VR starts being used more prevalent they should add it to counter the advantages VR gets over non VR.

It's not that easy. They can't just put 3rd person view in there, this would requiere a major re-design of everything they did so far or it would be completely useless.

 

[Shockbot]

Because third person view in Elite would be stupid.

But a flyby camera mode would be great like in GTA V when you press "R"

 

[Privata]

But a flyby camera mode would be great like in GTA V when you press "R"

Only if its done via a drone (that takes up a module slot)

 

[Insomnia]

Only if its done via a drone (that takes up a module slot)

Why? For realism?

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

I don't really care if it's "3rd person cam" or "improved debug cam" - where is the difference anyway? External cam is external cam and the ED external cam is painful to use when you want to make cool screen shots.

 

[babelfisch]

I don't really care if it's "3rd person cam" or "improved debug cam" - where is the difference anyway? External cam is external cam and the ED external cam is painful to use when you want to make cool screen shots.

The difference is that some people want to play the whole game (combat, docking, walking around etc.) in 3rd person which requieres a very different approach than just an improved debug cam.