why no real motion controller support? It is so easy to develop

crabo0om

C
For real, why do i have to install vJoy & EDVRC to play your game with motion controllers and huzzle around for 3 days in a row just to make it work on Quest 2?
These days VR Motion Controller implementation is so damn easy to make, the groundwork of it is already there, you just need to implement these fkn controllers, a throttle and a gear. What is so difficult on it that you didn´t implement that for your game? I really don´t get it. You´ve implemented VR support but the cheapest version of it someone can develop, that´s kind of a shame i would say. Just get your s togther, hire a dev that can code it and it will be done in less than 2 weeks, up and working. I can do that if you want and pay a good price, or do it yourself, but do it!!!!! It´s aweful to play it without motion controllers in VR and the EDVRC Mod is too difficult for players to manage and get it working.
 
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Frank

Frank
It's worse than that. Some of us pro-VR pilots are anti-motion-control. Some of them like me, have tried motion control piloting in No Man's Sky and found it horrendous. Others have a HOTAS setup placed exactly like the one they see in their virtual cockpit, and they are enjoying the Rubber Hand Illusion
 

Arioch

Arioch
NMS is not a very good example of a virtual HOTAS - the stick has a huge dead zone and feels very spongy, and the throttle is either stop, forward, or fast.

If you want to know what a good virtual HOTAS feels like, play VTOL VR. It has fantastic fidelity and it’s pretty much like using my t16000m, just without the spring. Holding the motion controllers in the air is indeed a bit silly, which is why I rest mine on a small beanbag (for the stick) or a cushion (for the throttle).

With Elite and all the secondary controls you could probably do a decent copy of the default game pad setup - 9 buttons, dpad, twin sticks versus 8 buttons (though losing 2 to “grab” the virtual HOTAS), twin sticks, virtual stick&throttle. You’d then have to consider the holo panels - interact with them with a virtual laser pointer or make them touch screens? These vary in size and distance over Elite’s many ships so that could be a lot of work.

Personally, I can’t see it happening in anything less than a full-VR expansion - and I’m not expecting that to happen any time soon 😁
 

crabo0om

C
Helmut Grokenberger said:
Serious question: How am I supposed to pilot my ship with motion controllers? They have nowhere near enough buttons for all ship functions. Also, waving your hand in the air to mimic a control stick is... silly.
Click to expand...
Just look at the mod named VR Cockpit for ED. There you can see how it could be omplemented and it is very great like this, every controll is there. You can freely place virtual holo buttons everywhere you like wich control the different things. But it is veeeeery tidious to setup, took me 6 days to figure out everything.
But after setting everything up it plays very well, i mean, very very well. Everyone who says it doesn´t work with motion controllers should try this out to assure oneself to the opposite (if you have no HOTAS).

And, cause some here laugh at the phrase "it is very easy". I can tell you, it is and i am not a guitar fixing dude, i am an unreal engine dev ;).
There is OpenXR wich is easy to implement in engines, have done this several times myself in unreal engine and unity. Ok yeah, the engines themself are developed by others and i am just developing with the engine, but it can not be that hard to implement it into the source code. It is open source and the devs at Frontier have build their own engine, so they should be able to implement this very quick.
What i think is they don´t have any ideas on how they should do it. Why am i thinking this? Because there´s plenty of people that say there´s not enough buttons for it and Frontier could think the same, but it is simply not true. You can just implement virtual buttons in the cockpit that one can physically press, you must not limit every control to the controller. Or, what seems to be more true, the devs are just too lazy to do it.
 
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crabo0om

C
For the lazy ones out there that aren´t able to google what VR Cockpit is, here´s an image of some of the features:

And here´s the link to the mod, wich works very well but is a pain to configure: https://github.com/dantman/elite-vr-cockpit/blob/master/GETTING-STARTED.md

You also need vJoy and, if you are playing with Quest 2 you should also intall OpenVr2Key to implement the left thumbstick, cause it is not possible without it cause of the limitation of vJoy. I am planning to make a Tutorial on how to set this up on if i find time to do it.
Bild_2022-06-20_105031456.png
 
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crabo0om

C
Helmut Grokenberger said:
So it's maybe not that easy... ;)
Click to expand...
why are you thinking this is a lot of work? The Ui Elements are already there, and it doesn´t matter if the button is a bit off or if it is behind you, cause the laser pointer would do nothing more then highlighting a clickable button and if you are on a button with it you can click, it really doesn´t matter where that button is ;)
 

BigDuke6ixx

BigDuke6ixx
Helmut Grokenberger said:
Serious question: How am I supposed to pilot my ship with motion controllers? They have nowhere near enough buttons for all ship functions. Also, waving your hand in the air to mimic a control stick is... silly.
Click to expand...
It would be silly if you did it like that but you don't do it like that. I was really against virtual controls for flying but I found it works really well in VTOL and I can get a level of precision on a par with my HOTAS.
 

Hempstead

Hempstead
crabo0om said:
Just look at the mod named VR Cockpit for ED. There you can see how it could be omplemented and it is very great like this, every controll is there. You can freely place virtual holo buttons everywhere you like wich control the different things. But it is veeeeery tidious to setup, took me 6 days to figure out everything.
But after setting everything up it plays very well, i mean, very very well. Everyone who says it doesn´t work with motion controllers should try this out to assure oneself to the opposite (if you have no HOTAS).

And, cause some here laugh at the phrase "it is very easy". I can tell you, it is and i am not a guitar fixing dude, i am an unreal engine dev ;).
There is OpenXR wich is easy to implement in engines, have done this several times myself in unreal engine and unity. Ok yeah, the engines themself are developed by others and i am just developing with the engine, but it can not be that hard to implement it into the source code. It is open source and the devs at Frontier have build their own engine, so they should be able to implement this very quick.
What i think is they don´t have any ideas on how they should do it. Why am i thinking this? Because there´s plenty of people that say there´s not enough buttons for it and Frontier could think the same, but it is simply not true. You can just implement virtual buttons in the cockpit that one can physically press, you must not limit every control to the controller. Or, what seems to be more true, the devs are just too lazy to do it.
Click to expand...
As a programmer, I say go for it. Implement one and let the better one win. Talk is cheap.

Moreover, says who that the best one always win?

One of the most difficult things in programming is not writing programs, not analyzing problems correctly, but convincing the powers to be to believe you and let you do it. If you can’t do that, you are left with garage projects. Go convince Fdev, not us. You are barking at the wrong tree!
 

crabo0om

C
Hempstead said:
As a programmer, I say go for it. Implement one and let the better one win. Talk is cheap.

Moreover, says who that the best one always win?

One of the most difficult things in programming is not writing programs, not analyzing problems correctly, but convincing the powers to be to believe you and let you do it. If you can’t do that, you are left with garage projects. Go convince Fdev, not us. You are barking at the wrong tree!
Click to expand...
I don´t want to create my own mod to make this better. What i want is that the devs do their job and implement what they are promote, cause they do say they promote VR on steam. They also say you need a gamepad or a controller but this is not VR at all, it´s only HMD support, wich is a very lazy implementation For things like this you can go and install vorpx, no need for devs to do anything if HMD support is enough. They have implemented the cheapest form of VR that we can get and that annoys me, cause they are earning a lot of money with their game and don´t give a .
 
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Arioch

Arioch
No Man's Sky is not a good example of virtual HOTAS implementation - it's like trying a knackered second-hand Thrustmaster X and then dismissing all HOTAS systems as awful 😄

I've knocked up a quick video showing NMS spongy stick and 3-speed throttle compared to the precision of VTOL VR - I'm still learning the F-35 knock-off so my acrobatic skills aren't too good as shown in the vid, but my vertical landings on moving carriers are getting better (for a future video once I've got the AP assist figured out 😅)
Source: https://youtu.be/R0jMPzhOFBQ
 

crabo0om

C
Arioch said:
No Man's Sky is not a good example of virtual HOTAS implementation - it's like trying a knackered second-hand Thrustmaster X and then dismissing all HOTAS systems as awful 😄

I've knocked up a quick video showing NMS spongy stick and 3-speed throttle compared to the precision of VTOL VR - I'm still learning the F-35 knock-off so my acrobatic skills aren't too good as shown in the vid, but my vertical landings on moving carriers are getting better (for a future video once I've got the AP assist figured out 😅)
Source: https://youtu.be/R0jMPzhOFBQ
Click to expand...
yip. NMS has a very aweful implementation of motion controllers, but at least they have one :D
 

VR Dextrovix

VR Dextrovix
NMS does have at least have full stereoscopic VR throughout the whole experience, unlike ED nowadays.

It's a shame piloting the ships is so simplistic, but for a small team to add VR support that is fully function, I tip my hat to them. I'd really only flip the finger to FD nowadays over their lack of VR development since release, it's poor and Oddity is a grey, letterboxed mess.
 
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