PvP Why PvP is not popular in Elite Dangerous?

[CMDR EDGEL0RD]

Can you verify your 99% stat? I'd accept that a lot of them are either trying it for the first time or seasoned players that know what to expect and enjoy the extra challenge a player blockade provides.

People try things, some find they like it & do more, and some (you argue many) discover that they don't.

I used to, I did quite a few CGs including the battle of Lugh, the original Hutton run, the Sothis Gold run & many others. The Hutton run was my first really fun & memorable CG, going up against the Code after an hour and a half of flight, that was IIRC the only time I ever double-tapped my J key. The Sothis Gold run was initially just a bit of a laugh for me, I spent a couple of evenings distracting the Code in an unarmed Cobra, carrying 16 tonnes at a time. They chose to blockade with Cobras which made the thrill of the chase fun for a wider range of skillsets. In the end though I wanted the CG to succeed (it was the first really distant CG IIRC and takeup was very low) so me and maybe a dozen other Cmdrs loaded up trade condas with gold in the bubble & shipped it out there to get it past level 1.

Eventually I got bored of it & did other things. I occasionally still do trade CGs in my Cobra, but it's no longer the fastest thing around and the weapon disparity has increased considerably - to be fair the blockaders are better organised and more familiar with likely tactics, they are too good so my survival chances, flying the way I like to fly, are lower. I mean no disrespect to the Code, they were the true pioneers and helped to establish the rules of engagement now commonly seen.

Imagine that Hutton run CG in Solo. It would be dull as hell, why would anyone do that? It was Open or nothing. I tried a run in Mobius and helped unload a Conda, it was worthy and I felt like part of a team, but it was more of a chore than actual fun.

The reward for playing in open is (or has the potential to be) the unpredictable encounters with other players. Constant harassment and people wanting to fight isn't unpredictable, it's the worst kind of predictability. But some love it and fair play to them, if I want to join in I know where to find that kind of play.

Its pointless man, you arguing with people who dont understand the game, that hardly go to open (if ever), dont do PvP, dont understand how to build a ship for survival or attack and are interested in this game being a mandane expirience with no challenges and PvP used for mining salt.

Any dimwit with 0 IQ points can see the unbalance with the modes, they know it, they argue for the sake of the argument. They are SOLO players who will have no effect on them if OPEN will have an incentive. They are scared of being left behind and their safespot bubble Mobius will become an empty space.

It is called hypocricy.

Sure, when you value expirience of the game more than credits, you go open. I do not argue with that. But cases of people actually choosing that is about 1%. Sure, some can tear shirts on their chest to show "open only or no balls" tatoo there, but they are hypocrites as well. Human choses efficiency over expirience in most cases. Take voleyboom or any other exploit, for instance. And analyse causes of outrage.

 

[frostypaw]

Its pointless man, you arguing with people who dont understand the game, that hardly go to open (if ever), dont do PvP, dont understand how to build a ship for survival or attack and are interested in this game being a mandane expirience with no challenges and PvP used for mining salt.

This is simply untrue and has been refuted many times through this thread. It's just bitter and pathetic - if you want progress this is the opposite way to go about it.

 

[Riverside]

It is called hypocricy.

Sure, when you value expirience of the game more than credits, you go open. I do not argue with that. But cases of people actually choosing that is about 1%. Sure, some can tear shirts on their chest to show "open only or no balls" tatoo there, but they are hypocrites as well. Human choses efficiency over expirience in most cases. Take voleyboom or any other exploit, for instance. And analyse causes of outrage.

You make a decent point about efficiency, just as with a PvPer complaining about engineering 'grind' but doing it anyway. I don't like the idea of Power Play modules and the work involved in getting them (and that you get to keep them after leaving & pledging to an enemy power), so I don't do it. None of my ships have prismatics or any of the other stuff. I concede that someone who was prepared to put the effort in will have more effective shields etc.

Your analogy works across many play styles. I just do the things I enjoy, with people I enjoy playing with. Which is probably no different from ALGOMATIC or several others here.

 

[CMDR EDGEL0RD]

You make a decent point about efficiency, just as with a PvPer complaining about engineering 'grind' but doing it anyway. I don't like the idea of Power Play modules and the work involved in getting them (and that you get to keep them after leaving & pledging to an enemy power), so I don't do it. None of my ships have prismatics or any of the other stuff. I concede that someone who was prepared to put the effort in will have more effective shields etc.

Your analogy works across many play styles. I just do the things I enjoy, with people I enjoy playing with. Which is probably no different from ALGOMATIC or several others here.

So, every time you want to have fun in this game, when you actually want to have yourself a challenge to overcome, you have to either compromise your efficiency or straight up sacrifice your progress. This is not just about PvP and PvE, this is about this game overall.
Every time you take a risk, you are either act or have nothing to lose. And especially nothing to gain, you are waging something against nothing.

This is the worst thing about this game. This is what I despise about this game.
No way in hell this is a symptom of a good game design. This is pure nonsence and I had never came across bull like this in any other game.

And you like it and want to protect it?


And I might add that other player only can provide highest possible challenge in any game.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

I have a video. It’s for the PvPers here.

[video=youtube_share;cfHAiIq-Yeo]https://youtu.be/cfHAiIq-Yeo[/video]

 

[Prole 217]

If the intent is to incentivise pvp why apply the incentive to one mode?

Pvp can happen in pg as well as open, such as the pvp hub i am guessing so why should they be left out if its really an incentive to pvp?

Applying an incentive to a mode where pvp is not guaranteed to happen is the same easy button many rabid pvpers accuse others of wanting.

I can see no reason for a game wide mode incentive. The possibility of being attacked is not a risk that deserves a reward, the attack on the other hand might be worth one.

If the intention is to bring more players to a specific mode, that incentive would need to be achievable at least enough to offset re buys and still make some kind of profit, otherwise nobody, except the players who liked the interaction would ever stick around.

If you wish it to be risk related for a true risk/reward type of incentive ship builds as well as pilot ability would also need to be thrown into the mix. Anything else is disingenuous, and asking for an easy cash cow.

At least that is how I see the situation.

So the question is what is your inention and is there a solution that can be applied for the betterment of the game rather than cause it harm.

To be honest, I doubt the majority of salt miners would change their spots so to say regardless of any mechanic added to the game. On the other hand some probably would.

 

[CMDR EDGEL0RD]

I can see no reason for a game wide mode incentive. The possibility of being attacked is not a risk that deserves a reward, the attack on the other hand might be worth one.

For crack sakes, can you guys just admit that I'm right and let me work?

I stopped reading after that line. It is a game, and any risk should be rewarded.
You can create a PG with a single mouse click. I have a PG for myself for boardflipping.
And I am not talking about any monetary gains above 5-10%. Such exploit. Even 3% more reward/better RNG chances is enough to move Solo from performance meta.
I am talking about 50% for pp though.

 

[Mohrgan]

For cracks sakes, can you guys just admit that I'm right and let me work?

I stopped reading after that line.
You can create a PG with a single mouse click. I have a PG for myself for boardflipping.
And I am not talking about any monetary gains above 5-10%. Such exploit. Even 3% more reward/better RNG chances is enough to move Solo from performance meta.
I am talking about 50% for pp though.

So, 3%, in your eyes, is enough of a difference for all of this fuss? Wow, that's kind of surprising.

The idea that actual PvP should be what's rewarded, rather than just offering bait, doesn't make sense to you? Why would you want players that avoid PvP, but in open, be rewarded more than those that avoid PvP, in another mode? Don't you think that people would risk more direct fights if there was something in it for them? It is quite suspicious that the only thing that would satisfy is a blue ribbon, and extra credits for logging in to open. Regardless of the actual threat faced.

It makes one wonder.

 

[CMDR EDGEL0RD]

So, 3%, in your eyes, is enough of a difference for all of this fuss? Wow, that's kind of surprising.

The idea that actual PvP should be what's rewarded, rather than just offering bait, doesn't make sense to you? Why would you want players that avoid PvP, but in open, be rewarded more than those that avoid PvP, in another mode? Don't you think that people would risk more direct fights if there was something in it for them? It is quite suspicious that the only thing that would satisfy is a blue ribbon, and extra credits for logging in to open. Regardless of the actual threat faced.

It makes one wonder.

I was talking about risks. Avoiding PvP in open takes more skill and more investments. And completely unnecesary, though yelds way more fun.

"I am a best trader in the galaxy. All those NPC dumbwits can get no tasty cargo from me".

Does not this situation makes game void a bit?

 

[AbsinthSvK]

I was talking about risks. Avoiding PvP in open takes more skill and more investments. And completely unnecesary, though yelds way more fun.

with instance exploits, logging exploits, ect its impossible to make any pvp serious. This game is fundamentally against serious pvp, the end. You can cry, you can wrote whole book about pvp in this forum but when i dont see huge update about this problem, firstly solving net-code for example, normal pvp is out of range.

 

[Mohrgan]

I was talking about risks. Avoiding PvP in open takes more skill and more investments. And completely unnecesary, though yelds way more fun.

"I am a best trader in the galaxy. All those NPC dumbwits can get no tasty cargo from me".

Does not this situation makes game void a bit?

Open offers the chance for extra risk, it is not a guarantee. Engaging in PvP is a guaranteed extra risk.

Some myth about why people choose to play in Solo/PG is not enough justification to offer an incentive to log into open. Especially when it is recognized that open isn't a huge gank-fest. Engaging another player over an objective is exactly the reason a player should be rewarded. I play, any game, to be entertained.

For me, that means puttering about making my favored faction happy. For you, it might be the thrill you get out of facing another Commander. I get that. I spend nearly a year playing with a PvP oriented Player Group. I got full tags for PvP, and it's Auxiliary (PvE). I just don't enjoy it anymore, for many reasons. The game is designed to facilitate a myriad of play styles, and interests. All we have to do is accept that, and get on with what we, individually, enjoy in the game. Play and let play. Simple.

 

[Prole 217]

Open offers the chance for extra risk, it is not a guarantee. Engaging in PvP is a guaranteed extra risk.

Some myth about why people choose to play in Solo/PG is not enough justification to offer an incentive to log into open. Especially when it is recognized that open isn't a huge gank-fest. Engaging another player over an objective is exactly the reason a player should be rewarded. I play, any game, to be entertained.

For me, that means puttering about making my favored faction happy. For you, it might be the thrill you get out of facing another Commander. I get that. I spend nearly a year playing with a PvP oriented Player Group. I got full tags for PvP, and it's Auxiliary (PvE). I just don't enjoy it anymore, for many reasons. The game is designed to facilitate a myriad of play styles, and interests. All we have to do is accept that, and get on with what we, individually, enjoy in the game. Play and let play. Simple.

It seems pretty simple to me that they do not want to give people a reason to pvp, they just want more targets or an easy button so all of their actions are more important than anyone else's.

If it were about risk/reward there wouldn't be a cry against rewarding actual pvp and not the mode.

As far as PP goes its the same thing, if more pvp is wanted why not make pvp actions have some kind of direct affect rather than a secondary or tertiary one?

As it was said there are far too many ways the matchmaker, instancing, and network code lets a mode bonus be an easy button.

 

[jasonbarron]

It seems pretty simple to me that they do not want to give people a reason to pvp, they just want more targets or an easy button so all of their actions are more important than anyone else's.

If it were about risk/reward there wouldn't be a cry against rewarding actual pvp and not the mode.

As far as PP goes its the same thing, if more pvp is wanted why not make pvp actions have some kind of direct affect rather than a secondary or tertiary one?

As it was said there are far too many ways the matchmaker, instancing, and network code lets a mode bonus be an easy button.

Router jiggering and similar arguments are simply a distraction for you guys, a wall of technical noise to hide the truth behind.

When you first appeared in the sub it was under the appearance of seeking knowledge. I knew at that point that was disingenuous of you, but subsequent posts have reinforced that opinion.

 

[Han_Zen]

It seems pretty simple to me that they do not want to give people a reason to pvp, they just want more targets or an easy button so all of their actions are more important than anyone else's.

If it were about risk/reward there wouldn't be a cry against rewarding actual pvp and not the mode.

As far as PP goes its the same thing, if more pvp is wanted why not make pvp actions have some kind of direct affect rather than a secondary or tertiary one?

As it was said there are far too many ways the matchmaker, instancing, and network code lets a mode bonus be an easy button.

Instancing and matchmaking tricks, like wing switching are already in use. We don’t need more of that silly stuff.

I still think removing the privilege players have over NPCs, is the only way to make the modes equal.

As long as the game lets players be knights and keep NPCs as peasants, it’s never going to work.
I’ve been in open in the bubble for a while now. My last player contact was the 20th. I don’t think I deserve a bonus for that.

 

[Mohrgan]

Router jiggering and similar arguments are simply a distraction for you guys, a wall of technical noise to hide the truth behind.

When you first appeared in the sub it was under the appearance of seeking knowledge. I knew at that point that was disingenuous of you, but subsequent posts have reinforced that opinion.

Confirmation bias. I don't go for Boogeyman arguments much, but the notion that a feature or suggestion is exploitable is a valid issue. It's used on a variety of topics.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

Instancing and matchmaking tricks, like wing switching are already in use. We don’t need more of that silly stuff.

I still think removing the privilege players have over NPCs, is the only way to make the modes equal.

As long as the game lets players be knights and keep NPCs as peasants, it’s never going to work.
I’ve been in open in the bubble for a while now. My last player contact was the 20th. I don’t think I deserve a bonus for that.

If PvP will ever have content it will concentrate around few systems so you will be guaranteed encounters with other players, unless you like cheating and rigging your router, but even so, majority will not cheat so it will be fine.

 

[Prole 217]

Router jiggering and similar arguments are simply a distraction for you guys, a wall of technical noise to hide the truth behind.

When you first appeared in the sub it was under the appearance of seeking knowledge. I knew at that point that was disingenuous of you, but subsequent posts have reinforced that opinion.

Not true at all. That you project that on to me is an issue you have.

I also asked if an diamond back explorer would be good enough since I can get that but not the aspx for the engineering stuff and nobody has replied. I did get some info on using CQC for learning flight assist off, but was advised not so much for fixed, I am taking all of that into account and trying it out, right now I am in ceos earning credits for that aspx you can find me there pretty much any day.

You say the router jiggering is a distraction, and I have stated I know nothing but what has been stated my whole experience with the router is that wps button.

You have yet to enlighten anybody on how its a better idea to apply an incentive to a whole mode rather than just the actual risk/reward aspect of pvp so the distraction seems to be coming into play there as well.

I dont care about modes at all, they are just options, i would not mind seeing pvp get some direct influence on objectives in both modes it can occur, in my mind that would mean an incentive to the act of pvp or perhaps an added mechanic or something.

You are more than welcome to have your opinions, even about me, even when they are wrong.

You seem to think I am an enemy of open or pvp, that is entirely untrue.

 

[Mohrgan]

If PvP will ever have content it will concentrate around few systems so you will be guaranteed encounters with other players, unless you like cheating and rigging your router, but even so, majority will not cheat so it will be fine.

Incentivizing open is not content. Adding a layer of reward to applicable PvP is. Why isn't the idea of rewarding PvP with influence on the BGS or PP not more appreciated, where baiting for targets open gets trotted out at every occasion?

 

[CMDR EDGEL0RD]

It seems pretty simple to me that they do not want to give people a reason to pvp, they just want more targets or an easy button so all of their actions are more important than anyone else's.

If it were about risk/reward there wouldn't be a cry against rewarding actual pvp and not the mode.

As far as PP goes its the same thing, if more pvp is wanted why not make pvp actions have some kind of direct affect rather than a secondary or tertiary one?

As it was said there are far too many ways the matchmaker, instancing, and network code lets a mode bonus be an easy button.

Where pirate is, there bounty hunters and protection appears. And what is meaningless about cargo?

And, to think about it, creating a sort of visible crime and trader layers of activity is not too hard. PvP crime commited - meter goes up, so does trade markup, up to 300%. Cargo bought/sold - trade meter goes up, thus pirates appear. And with meter prices and CG contribution do increase. Some might say that no layers needed in the light of CG existance, but it is not entirely true, as you usually CGs make you sell some underpriced stuff.

And there is a rares trade, and some pirates know trade lines there as well. But this knowledge is meaningless at the moment. Who would haul rares in Open? Right?

And for fk sakes, leave that technical problem alone. It is invalid. Solution for Clogging is in this thread as well, but I have no time atm to do research for it. Advanced p2p hacking is traceable and reportable.

Some myth about why people choose to play in Solo/PG is not enough justification to offer an incentive to log into open. Especially when it is recognized that open isn't a huge gank-fest. Engaging another player over an objective is exactly the reason a player should be rewarded. I play, any game, to be entertained.

It is not a myth. It is your denial of truth which any scientific behavioristic research proves.

Incentivizing open is not content. Adding a layer of reward to applicable PvP is. Why isn't the idea of rewarding PvP with influence on the BGS or PP not more appreciated, where baiting for targets open gets trotted out at every occasion?

And that was the start of the current theme, by the way. So you are hampering others "efforts".

 

[Mohrgan]

It is not a myth. It is your denial of truth which any scientific behavioristic research proves.

What? How would you even start to support that suggestion? 'Scientific behavioristic research'? Have your rants. I can't see anyone, especially FD, considering you a credible poster.

Making up pseudo-science right before our eyes.

Fly safe Commander. o7