PvP Why PvP is not popular in Elite Dangerous?

[Robert Maynard]

That's a bit subjective.

I would suggest that while some players are untroubled by others seeking to engage them in combat, the number of posts, over the years, bemoaning the fact that the OP had been destroyed as the unwilling target of another player points to a lack of peaceful coexistence.

My commander has 3.5 years without being killed or killing another PF member. Most of that time has been spent in open.

.... now that's subjective.

 

[Han_Zen]

I would suggest that while some players are untroubled by others seeking to engage them in combat, the number of posts, over the years, bemoaning the fact that the OP had been destroyed as the unwilling target of another player points to a lack of peaceful coexistence.



.... now that's subjective.

My experience is very subjective. It's the only first hand experience I have.

All I'm saying is that if you want to peacefully coexist with predators, you have acknowledge them. If you pretend that they are not there, they will kill you.

Coexistence always involves adapting. If predators evolve to kill more effectively but the prey on principal refuses to evolve for survival, the coexistence will not be peaceful.

Those PvEer that chose to adapt can coexist with PvP players in open. That's all I'm saying.

 

[AbsinthSvK]

The problem is right there in your reply. Coexisting. That just doesn't seem to be the case. Not that I'd know since I am a Soloist.

I am a Soloist because I do not want to play with other people ever. Not now, not in the past nor in the future. Nothing to do with 'hating' PvP, just total disinterest.

So I would say that you are incorrect and the division into modes is totally necessary.

I'm not the only one who thinks that way either, which is nice for me.

then players like you should be cut off from open mode influence, and dont play shadow play for other players! Play with your own sand when you are not interesting in galaxy with peoples.

Separate modes completely or make one coexistence mode. Already said in this thread i dont need to make another discussion to you, just read posts. Plenty of good posts there and you just once more time wrote about your introvert problems (funny is you are on forum with REAL PEOPLE). Also im very confident to say players on this forum are not majority of people and said "solo" players are "majority" is wrong. I think majority of players will welcome player interaction changes even when they dont go in this forum and said: HEY, IM HAPPY WITH THAT!

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

My experience is very subjective. It's the only first hand experience I have.

All I'm saying is that if you want to peacefully coexist with predators, you have acknowledge them. If you pretend that they are not there, they will kill you.

Coexistence always involves adapting. If predators evolve to kill more effectively but the prey on principal refuses to evolve for survival, the coexistence will not be peaceful.

Those PvEer that chose to adapt can coexist with PvP players in open. That's all I'm saying.

I don't adapt well, so my solution has been to do the opposite of acknowledging them. And I'm not talking about pirates, but about the pewmatons which don't fit in my Elite Universe. I treat them like that message you get in some games. "You have been playing for some time, please take a break". These fellers provide that service. Upon pew, there will be coffee and cigarettes break.

This lad's not for turning.

 

[Robert Maynard]

My experience is very subjective. It's the only first hand experience I have.

Of course.

All I'm saying is that if you want to peacefully coexist with predators, you have acknowledge them. If you pretend that they are not there, they will kill you.

Coexistence always involves adapting. If predators evolve to kill more effectively but the prey on principal refuses to evolve for survival, the coexistence will not be peaceful.

Those PvEer that chose to adapt can coexist with PvP players in open. That's all I'm saying.

Indeed.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

then players like you should be cut off from open mode influence, and dont play shadow play for other players! Play with your own sand when you are not interesting in galaxy with peoples.

Separate modes completely or make one coexistence mode. Already said in this thread i dont need to make another discussion to you, just read posts. Plenty of good posts there and you just once more time write about you introvert problems (funny is you are on forum with REAL PEOPLE). Also im very confident to say players on this forum are not majority of people and said "solo" players are "majority" is wrong. I think majority of players will welcome player interaction changes even when they dont go in this forum and said: HEY IM HAPPY WITH THAT!

So IF this is such a big deal for you, why buy the game?
Do you not see how when a product it sold advertising certain features, IF the devs want to keep any form of loyalty for any future purchases they cant just do a bait and switch?

the modes as well as the shared BGS where everyone plays a part were advertised features since the very start.... I am not saying you are wrong for wanting those features... i AM saying you are wrong for demanding them in an already established game.

forgetting everything else (there is nothing which would make me agree that it is ok to bait and switch in a game unless FD are gonna offer full refunds) but what abotu the xbox silver and psn standard players who bought the game knowing they can do competitive PvE without paying for subs? . screw them i guess?

 

[Robert Maynard]

then players like you should be cut off from open mode influence, and dont play shadow play for other players! Play with your own sand when you are not interesting in galaxy with peoples.

Playing this game, i.e. influencing the BGS, PowerPlay, CGs, etc., does not require any player to engage in PvP - no matter how much some players might wish differently.

Frontier pitched the game based on the three game modes influencing a single shared galaxy state over five years ago and the advertising material on the official site still mentions the fact that *every* player affects the game.

Every player either backed or bought the game on that basis.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

plus there is this...

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...e-29-01-2015?p=1658799&viewfull=1#post1658799

legally can FD bait and switch? sure, i guess....... but morally should they? I would say not without offering FULL refunds to those who it ruins the game for.

but i know the naysayers wont let silly little things like facts get in the way

 

[AbsinthSvK]

So IF this is such a big deal for you, why buy the game?

honestly, i dont know. I just like spaceships and see open mode in this game. Solo mode are good and i played it for hours but get repetitive pretty quickly, then i look at open and see only mess.
[video=youtube;EUN6KP__ozM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUN6KP__ozM[/video]

 

[Scrat]

I'm fine with PvP but I want to have it on a level playing field. Thats why I would love CQC if there were more players but playing mostly solo/Moebius outside of CQC. Playing 1 on 1 or 2 by 2 in similar ship classes is a lot of fun. Being attacked by 4 people flying alone in a trade ship not so much.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I'm fine with PvP but I want to have it on a level playing field. Thats why I would love CQC if there were more players but playing mostly solo/Moebius outside of CQC. Playing 1 on 1 or 2 by 2 in similar ship classes is a lot of fun. Being attacked by 4 people flying alone in a trade ship not so much.

CQC is great..... it needs more content tho (for me that content is not bringing in our engineerd death boats, tho if that was an extra mode why not.......) but imo it needs more maps, inc some planetary surface stuff, option to create lobbies as well as npc bots for when not enough are playing.

gears of war did this superbly.... it has a player only mode OR a drop in drop out mode... both offer exactly the same features and progression, one means the serious PvPers always get meat sacks, the other means the rest of the players get into a game on demand and the game fills up with humans as it goes on replacing the bots, and is always fully populated with combatants.

 

[Han_Zen]

I don't adapt well, so my solution has been to do the opposite of acknowledging them. And I'm not talking about pirates, but about the pewmatons which don't fit in my Elite Universe. I treat them like that message you get in some games. "You have been playing for some time, please take a break". These fellers provide that service. Upon pew, there will be coffee and cigarettes break.

This lad's not for turning.

That's also a valid zombie escape plan.

 

[Azreh Helas]

I like cooperation more than I like PvP. Simply put, doing joint things whether it's in multi crew or in a wing is so much more fun than anything PvP has to offer.

 

[NeilF]

sorry but this seems odd.

1: considering the attacker is basically the deciding factor here and the trend seems to be to attack those where very little is risked (or at least the problematic 'pvp' is about that), yeah, attacker isn't really 'risking' much. And yeah, there aren't things 'motivating' PvP, because Elite is not based around PvP, it is not a PvP game, it is a PvE game, where you 'can' attack others, but the game itself does not care, the only value is the one that the fighters find from fighting other players, to the game itself npcs and players doesn't really matter. Heck with 3.0 we are getting the first ever separation of players and npc's when it comes to showing trade routes, allowing to see npc or player routes.
2: ....no, you are effectively saying "those not wanting to participate in PvP are killing PvP"? and no that's not how it works, you can't lose what never was there, and forcing people will just make them leave entirely?
3: don't go after people that tend to do that, the trend seems to be situations again where attacker chooses a weak target, and in that case, what else can they do, they clearly aren't enjoying being at the mercy of someone who enjoys overpowering others? in real PvP where both parties are involved and there's actually a risk of losing to both? yeah I don't think those people combat log, and if they do........yeah, dunno.

What you've mentioned here is highlighting an important matter... The game does nothing to promote interesting consensual PvP, and does little to diswade mindless/pointless non-consensual PvP.

ie: If you're flying around in an exploration ship, what possible interest is there for in you being interdicted and destroyed for the nothing more than the other CMDR's entertainment? Sure, if you doing a trade CG and being pirated there's a solid reason, but simply interdicted and destroyed for the lolz? No...

So the game desperately needs to offer accessible meaningful PvP mechanics in OPEN. This could be as simple as periodic OPEN only CGs. It could then built on with missions to further orchestrate it (eg: missions to steal cargo from CMDRs delivering to the CG). Indeed, the game could even orchestrate a couple of "hot spots" via the BGS to promote traders to go to areas in OPEN, and offer missions to pirates to steal their cargo etc etc.

With 3.0 we start to see the beginnings of some penalties for "unwanted" PvP. Now we need some mechanics to orchestrate and reward PvP for those interested in taking part.

 

[GunnerBill]

What you've mentioned here is highlighting an important matter... The game does nothing to promote interesting consensual PvP, and does little to diswade mindless/pointless non-consensual PvP.

ie: If you flying around in an exploration ship, what possible interest is there in you being interdicted and destroyed for the nothing more than the other CMDRs entertainment? Sure, if you doing a trade CG and being pirated there's a solid reason, but simply interdicted and destroyed for the lolz? No...

So the game desperately needs to offer accessible meaningful PvP mechanics in OPEN. This could be as simple as OPEN only CGs. It could then built on with missions to further orchestrate it (eg: missions to steal cargo from CMDRs delivering to the CG). Indeed, the game could even orchestrate a couple of "hot spots" via the BGS to promote traders to go to areas in OPEN, and offer missions to pirates to steal their cargo etc etc.

With 3.0 we start to see the beginnings of some penalties for "unwanted" PvP. Now we need some mechanics to orchestrate and reward PvP for those interested in taking part.

OPEN only CG? Yes, a good idea. Perhaps make the CG system a entire open area CZ and to participate the CMDR is required to sign for one side or the other. Credit can only be earned if you are signed. Unsigned CMDRs do not appear in Open?

 

[NeilF]

OPEN only CG? Yes, a good idea. Perhaps make the CG system a entire open area CZ and to participate the CMDR is required to sign for one side or the other. Credit can only be earned if you are signed. Unsigned CMDRs do not appear in Open?

Indeed, have sides you sign up to and that's it. ie: You cannot sign up to both. And then it's simply a matter of how involved FD came make the scenarios as regards offering PvP?

Delivering/stealing cargo?

Escorting convoys through an asteroid field/attacking the convoys?

Bring CQC type gameplay into the core game at the very least as tours of duty where you holo-me into a ship/location. Again missions/CGs could offer PvP in the core game.

...and of course these sort of mechanics can then be leveraged into Powerplay as well potentially?



But the moment the game can offer just a couple of dedicated "hot spots" via the BGS and/or CGs where PvP (legal or not) is orchestrated... Great!

 

[MarkAusten]

then players like you should be cut off from open mode influence, and dont play shadow play for other players! Play with your own sand when you are not interesting in galaxy with peoples.

That would be really great and I'd love that to be the case. Offline solo mode like the original Elite. Marvellous! Would you arrange that for us Soloists, please. Thank you.

Of course that would not answer the OP's question. Remove the Soloists to their own separate mode and you would still have the problem of players not liking PvP for the reason stated many times in this thread and others before it. And in FDev's own words it is the majority of players not engaging in PvP.

(funny is you are on forum with REAL PEOPLE).

Very true, but I'm NOT PLAYING WITH REAL PEOPLE ON THE FORUMS (see, I can shout just as loudly as you can).

The correct proportion of Solo, Group and Open players in the game is unknown outside of FDev but that really doesn't matter since they all play the same game.

Elite, however much you would prefer otherwise, is not individual modes but three with a shared Universe. There's no getting around that and if you want to discuss that you should head on over to the Hotel California thread where is is discussed in much fine detail.

This thread is about PvP and despite not playing in anything but Solo (reasons given above) I can comment on what I consider to be an error in your post. Which I did.

One of the problems, as I see it, is players not being able to coexist with other players in Open for one reason or another. The most oft stated reason is gankers, griefers call them what you will. That "mindless, shoot everything in sight for no other reason than it exists" is not coexisting.

 

[frostypaw]

Most of these "solve pvp with more pvp!" dreams rely on that being what people want rather than the possibility what they want is to stomp on easy targets. I fear this might be a little hopeful.

but, as soon as Frontier go near powerplay as an entity with respect to C&P to try and ensure it remains viable - the "how dare you support pvp!?" incredulity kicks in.

Eh? Where has this happened?

I'm sure I just saw the exact opposite and people supporting the new C+P mechanisms giving exceptions for powerplay.

 

[Zeeman]

For me, I think PvP in ED is too hard just to even have competitive gear. If I play Halo, or COD - sure, certain weapons give me an advantage - a better scope, faster rate of fire, suppressed muzzle, grenade launcher - whatever, but no matter what weapon you have, if I get a clean shot at your head with the lowest pistol, or walk up behind you and smack you int her back of the head - you're dead. Skill is a bigger factor than your equipment - though better gear helps.

In ED, if I don't have 2000MJ of shields, reverb cascade rails, high yield engineered shells, long range advanced PA's (etc) and G5 dirty drives, I may as well not turn up. It's not about skill anymore. And, to be honest, a 45 minute shield draining match is not really much fun. I'm not saying the best guys aren't skilled, they most certainly are, but turn up in a mere A-rated FDL, and they are toast, regardless.

We have a good PvP option (CQC), if they would ditch the bonus stuff, it would be even better, but seeing as it's not part of the main game... Why bother?

Would be awesome if wars could only be fought in faction supplied SLF's. You launch from the cap ship and go! Pick your load out poison (much like CQC) and let your skills determine your kills.

Z...

 

[AbsinthSvK]

One of the problems, as I see it, is players not being able to coexist with other players in Open for one reason or another. The most oft stated reason is gankers, griefers call them what you will. That "mindless, shoot everything in sight for no other reason than it exists" is not coexisting.

not being able coexisting because game doesn't support it, all your reasons should be fixed when they add proper game mechanics. Gankers, griefers, mindless shooting exists because game allow it.

I would be happy even with removing solo mode and add pvp arenas around galaxy where only players can be killed. But its only dream because they never do that. Most of negative reviews on this game contain complains about empty map and repetitive game play, even when play a lot of people but they are hidden. Thats counterproductive isnt?