Why so few hardpoints on small ships?

[Snarfbuckle]

At most we have 3 small hardpoints with the Eagle but the majority of small ships have 2 small and something larger.

next up is the AspX with 4 small as a medium ship.
Why not a small ship with X6 small hardpoints for that fun flexibility?
Yes, a lot of people want the bigger guns but I would prefer at least some ships with an excessive amount of smaller caliber weapons.

 

[Kingston@#]

boredom has seriously kicked in

 

[Bryan K]

At most we have 3 small hardpoints with the Eagle but the majority of small ships have 2 small and something larger.

next up is the AspX with 4 small as a medium ship.
Why not a small ship with X6 small hardpoints for that fun flexibility?
Yes, a lot of people want the bigger guns but I would prefer at least some ships with an excessive amount of smaller caliber weapons.

You could always roll the window down and shoot spitballs at your enemy. You'd achieve a similar level of damage as the four small burst lasers on my Asp X.

 

[Mendaharin Tusca]

Personally I generally don't have an issue with the number of hardpoints.. their PLACEMENT on the other hand tend to be rather... questionable, far from logical nor efficient.

 

[Bryan K]

Personally I generally don't have an issue with the number of hardpoints.. their PLACEMENT on the other hand tend to be rather... questionable, far from logical nor efficient.

I would've liked to have seen the Eagle with hardpoints under the wings like its namesake. It'd be nice to see seeker missiles deployed the old-fashioned way.

 

[Snarfbuckle]

You could always roll the window down and shoot spitballs at your enemy. You'd achieve a similar level of damage as the four small burst lasers on my Asp X.

I tend to use quad beams and dual pack launchers on my combat Asp and that worked well.

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I would've liked to have seen the Eagle with hardpoints under the wings like its namesake. It'd be nice to see seeker missiles deployed the old-fashioned way.

And perhaps ships with weapon limited hard points but MORE.

An eagle with 2 extra small hardpoints under the wings but limited to missile launchers.

 

[Bryan K]

I tend to use quad beams and dual pack launchers on my combat Asp and that worked well.

Might try that. Quad gimbaled bursts and dual gimbaled cannons seems to be a poor choice. Haven't tried engineering them, though. It may be retired, but I still like my ships to have a decent punch, just in case I need them again.

 

[Snarfbuckle]

boredom has seriously kicked in

Well, small ships are FUN but while larger ships have plenty of small AND larger hardpoints small ships are mainly limited to FEW.

The only small ship with LOTS of hardpoints is the Cobra mkIV and even that feels...few.

When adding the AspS they made it slow but WHY remove hardpoints at all. Hell, I would have liked it with X6 small as a nimble but slow defensive fighter against other small fighters.

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Might try that. Quad gimbaled bursts and dual gimbaled cannons seems to be a poor choice. Haven't tried engineering them, though. It may be retired, but I still like my ships to have a decent punch, just in case I need them again.

Be warned, capacitor will have issues with quad beams so engineering is adviced.

My beef is also that few hardpoints limits tactical flexibility.

A Sidewinder could easily have 4 hardpoints but with only 2 you have awful firepower if you take different kind of weapons.

 

[Cmdr Lucca1985]

Power innit

But seriously isnt it to do with balance...

Putting six guns on a Viper mk 3 would make it far too difficult to beat. It would be fast nimble and far to easy for it to bead all six weapons (imagined with a thermal shock mod) on the target. You'd have Corvettes being two shotted by a wing of two vipers which would annihilate the incentive to rank up on the ships at all making us all Jem hadar lightship users

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

…
Why not a small ship with X6 small hardpoints for that fun flexibility?
….

Inconsistent combat development. Ships weren't designed with Engineers in mind and without the special effect meta.

Just wait a few months, FD will have to redesign combat and ships in the near future to save the game.

 

[fitzsteve]

Hardpoints is all to do with power vs balance and compromise on some ships. For example the AspX has 4 small and 2 medium (not just 4 as mentioned) Imagine an Eagle with 6 hardpoints, it would be pretty lethal assuming it had the power capacity to drive them.

Even the FDL only has 4 medium and 1 huge. Personally I prefer the Python as it's 3 large and 2 medium have the perfect placement. I really hate the Large HP placement on the FAS it's the main reason I just wont use one.

I do feel the Vulture could have another HP, maybe 1 medium (or 2 small) in addition to it's two large, although it already a very capable ship for it's price range.

 

[Snarfbuckle]

Power innit

But seriously isnt it to do with balance...

Putting six guns on a Viper mk 3 would make it far too difficult to beat. It would be fast nimble and far to easy for it to bead all six weapons (imagined with a thermal shock mod) on the target you'd have Corvettes being two shotted by a wing of two vipers which would annihilate the incentive to rank up on the ships at all making us all Jem hadar lightship users

Depends on how you do it.

And how is a Viper mk 3 with X6 small weapons overpowered against LARGER ships compared to it's regular X2 medium and X2 small? you would do overall more damage but have weapons that are less useful against larger targets due to weapon size VS larger ships. The Viper would be a worse threat against other small ships than larger ships since it has few drawbacks being a pure combat ship with good speed AND tank.

The AspS for example is DAMN slow, moderate shields and is a medium sized ship. It has the same hardpoints as a Cobra mkIII. What it has is maneuverability. Changing 2 mediums to 4 small to get X6 small mounts would not be overpowered with a S4 power distributor. It also weights LESS than a Cobra mkIII.

So having smaller hardpoints would make some ships more focused against smaller ships due to loss of damage against larger.

As for actual SMALL ships one could have:

Imperial Eagle with X4 small instead of X2 small and X1 Medium (Two nacelle guns instead of one top mounted)

Adder that replace top mount with X2 extra small

Diamondback Scout with X6 small instead of X2 small and X2 mediums (the soft hull and relatively few optional internals makes it a bit squishy compared to the Viper)

 

[Cmdr Lucca1985]

Depends on how you do it.

And how is a Viper mk 3 with X6 small weapons overpowered against LARGER ships compared to it's regular X2 medium and X2 small? you would do overall more damage but have weapons that are less useful against larger targets due to weapon size VS larger ships. The Viper would be a worse threat against other small ships than larger ships since it has few drawbacks being a pure combat ship with good speed AND tank.

The AspS for example is DAMN slow, moderate shields and is a medium sized ship. It has the same hardpoints as a Cobra mkIII. What it has is maneuverability. Changing 2 mediums to 4 small to get X6 small mounts would not be overpowered with a S4 power distributor. It also weights LESS than a Cobra mkIII.

So having smaller hardpoints would make some ships more focused against smaller ships due to loss of damage against larger.

As for actual SMALL ships one could have:

Imperial Eagle with X4 small instead of X2 small and X1 Medium (Two nacelle guns instead of one top mounted)

Adder that replace top mount with X2 extra small

Diamondback Scout with X6 small instead of X2 small and X2 mediums (the soft hull and relatively few optional internals makes it a bit squishy compared to the Viper)

I didnt define weapon size.

I made a point to use a mod because of the similar effect of the special effects.

Its unlikely that a pilot with an OP fighter class would only attack small ships and small ships only the likelyhood is they'd go for gold and start interdicting pythons and corvettes knowing they could dodge and deliver

I dont think "the honour system" is going to dissuade them

You give an eagle a viper or a cobra or a diamond back Scout more weapons they become OP and start to become feasible choices when taking on the bigger ships due to their superior maneuverability and ability to deliver more focused and decisive hits.

You cant just rug sweep that because it doesnt agree with your hypothesis

 

[Snarfbuckle]

I didnt define weapon size.

I dont think "the honour system" is going to dissuade them

You cant just rug sweep that because it doesnt agree with your hypothesis

- Weapon size is one of the main points of the thread - SMALL guns, and they HAVE reduced damage against larger vessels
- Honor has nothing to do with it but rather weapon efficiency against larger targets
- When did i sweep it under the rug? I merely responded to your post.

As for weapon effects, yes, some of them like Scramble Spectrum can proc more times with more weapons but there is a time limit on those effects as well so that part I DO agree with since it gives a pilot more options to stack such weapons.

But weapon sizes would indeed affect it when attacking a larger target like Corvettes.

Small pulse does 2 damage every 4 second = 0.5 DPS
Medium pulse does 3 damage every 3.6 seconds = 0.83 DPS

1 DPS vs 0.83 DPS.

Against a large ship we get 0.3 DPS vs 0.5 due to the 60% damage reduction for small guns and 30% for medium.
So 2 small guns would indeed be able to apply a special effect twice but do 60% of a medium sized weapon COMBINED.

And it's hardly something that is not done today with Vipers using twin small torpedoes with cascade effect and twin medium lasers.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

There are probably a number of reasons.

- Space, where can you fit these weapons. Look at a sidewinder- not much space there. Remember we need space for powerplants, engines and cargo.

- Power. Small ships can only have so much power. You put 4-6 small weapons on it, and it wouldn't have the power. You would need to reduce the size of the PP to fit.

We have one small powerful fighter and that is the Vulture, but even that is much bigger then the eagles and sidewinders and not what I would call small.

 

[Snarfbuckle]

There are probably a number of reasons.

- Space, where can you fit these weapons. Look at a sidewinder- not much space there. Remember we need space for powerplants, engines and cargo.

- Power. Small ships can only have so much power. You put 4-6 small weapons on it, and it wouldn't have the power. You would need to reduce the size of the PP to fit.

We have one small powerful fighter and that is the Vulture, but even that is much bigger then the eagles and sidewinders and not what I would call small.

- Space I completely agree with but so far we have not seen actual evidence of how much space internal modules take up if any. I mean, by that logic ALL modules must be represented by actual internal space in the ship WITH interior and I really dont think they have gone to that depth since we have not really SEEN any interior shots except cockpit.

The models must on the other hand have actual HARPOINTS modeled so it's difficult to do on current ships without making different models.

Power is an issue on ALL ships and even more so with engineers but even there we have options with overcharged powerplant.

Sure, an A classed Sidewinder will not manage it when having a A classed booster and S2 SCB but that's part of outfitting and making sacrifices for what you want the build to do.
http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=A018,FBR0FBR0,CEg0DBw0,9on0A3w0AJY0AZA0AnE0B0s0BGU0BWQ0,,7O207dg0

A fully engineered Sidewinder with max generator AND more power hungry modules only reach 62% power capacity.
http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=A018,...fBH60BWQ0,,7O2Gq7KupDQb7iUhhXWoPccqpDgqpDkqpD

Even with one overcharged booster we only reach 70%
http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=A018,...fBH60BWQ0,,7O2Gq7KupDQb7iUhhXWoPccqpDgqpDkqpD

So there is plenty of space for a sidewinder to have 4 small mounts. Besides, the Imperial Courier, a ship a mere 10 tonnes heavier have X3 medium guns and far heavier modules so I'm pretty sure we could have sidewinder sized ships with plenty of hardpoints.

 

[Rakaposhi]

Why so few hardpoints on small ships?

Is it because the ships are small?

 

[imski]

The ships have actually been modelled. Whilst all the art assets may not be there, they have all been designed with certain amounts of internal space.

However since we're flying in vacuum there's no reason you couldn't hang extra weapons off the hull, but when we do get atmo that would likely impair what little lift the ships can generate.

 

[Snarfbuckle]

Is it because the ships are small?

Not really.

Adder is 35 tonne hull
iCourier is a 35 tonne hull

One has 2 small and 1 medium and the other has X3 medium.

AND the imperial courier also has:
-More utility
-More optional
-Larger core modules

 

[Deleted member 38366]

Don't know how useful it would be to have i.e. 4,5 or even 6 Weapons - tied to a Class 1/2/3 Power Distributor

A Stock (A-Grade) Cobra Mk.IV already has severe difficulties sustaining fire from its 5 Hardpoints when using rather Distributor-friendly Weapons. Adding more Hardpoints it can't support anyway wouldn't help it.