Why so much hate for the Engineers?

[Commander William Diffin]

Are you want Receive payment in rng?

No. Payment in firearms please.

I love the engineers.

I only love Felicity Farseer. I want to take her on my starship and ravish her still-girlish body. Then cuddle her all night long.

But that Mmarko Quendt, I just want to shoot him in the face for being such an arrogant corporate tool. Then send the bill for the bullet to his mother.

 

[Globusdiablo]

I quit playing ED 5 months ago because of their update, I guess that's why I hate them

Good lord. Come back. Leave the grinding to the grinders.

 

[DanTheMan]

Because it was poorly thought out, poorly delivered and yet another un-asked for additional mini-game?

 

[Snarfbuckle]

Because it was poorly thought out, poorly delivered and yet another un-asked for additional mini-game?

Just like powerplay...was the same guy responsible?

I mean, it feels more like hiring a mad alchemist and not an engineer.

- THE BLOODY REQUIREMENT TO MEET THESE ECCENTRIC A-HOLES
- Really, you need 50 TONNES OF DRUGS? What the hell are you planning, the high of the millenium?
- They need exotic material collected from the ground instead of purchasing a ton of iron and just give it to him.
- I need to spend hours in an SRV collecting iron ingots instead of buying said mineral from the market (im pretty sure miners know how to get plenty of iron...)
- They need SALVAGED parts from ships instead of ordering the needed subcomponents online so I have to KILL PEOPLE to get them
- They lack the ability to record and recreate something twice with the same attributes (And these are ENGINEERS???)
- They get off if I ask them to add a specific effect instead pressing a gambling button and HOPE i get SOME effect

Engineering is a lazy RNG gambling which can be improved a LOT.

- Let us increase the odds for better rolls with more materials (reducing the negative effects by perhaps 10% per additional amount of required materials)
- Have a flat multiplier in materials if we want to ADD a special effect and not loose reputation (Say +25% for each rating so a Rating 5 special effect is +100% materials

It's not enough that I am a BETTER explorer than Professor Palin and have probably made more and longer journeys than him he ALSO require me to go and fetch bloody rare ALIEN ARTIFACTS.

And what about those rare goods.

Sure, you limited the amount we could have as cargo to limit trading I suppose as we could suddenly no longer carry more than X in the hold at once. Now I need to take a gazillion trips across the bubble just because some engineering student calls herself a master engineer and wants 40 bottles or rare wine?

What the hell girl, do you want me to take you out to dinner too?

And that's just me...

That engineer must have THE largest amount of rare wine in the entire bubble by now.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

People's main problem with Engineers is that they've been playing in an empty sandbox for so long that they forgot what real gameplay looks like.

 

[DanTheMan]

Agreed, by introducing Engineers they made it impossible to balance the NPCs for all players.

Some got the best Engineers upgrades possible and did the grind, now NPC's are like paper to them. Others didn't want the RNG Grind so stayed away from Engineers.

So what you got then was the Engineered players moaning how easy the NPCs were...

So FD buff the NPCs AI, fit sidewinders with dual plasma Accelerators, no heat damage and no ammo limits to make it harder for the engineers players.

By doing this they completely unbalanced the game for the non Engineers player's, making higher lvl NPC's almost unstoppable in a non engineered ship.

So now we start with the endless loop of nerf, buff, nerf buff meta changes FD will have to do to try and figure some way of balancing the game for all players.

Far from easy......

...and whose fault is that then? The paying customers or the developers? ;-)
Couldn't make it up could you? LOL
I wonder if it would be possible for the "matchmaking" (a laughable concept) to include a user selected aggression/difficulty level for AI and Human opponents? Like in DOOM of old?

 

[Snarfbuckle]

People's main problem with Engineers is that they've been playing in an empty sandbox for so long that they forgot what real gameplay looks like.

Gameplay does not have to be mindless grind.
What I lack with engineers is a LOGIC behind the tasks.

I get more WoW "collect X wolf teeth to get Y" feeling than rewarding gameplay.

Palin could instead of wanting X number of alien artifacts ask us to find a specific kind of world, sun, planet and collect mineral samples or something that would remind me of actual SCIENCE.

Engineers that ask me to get 50 tonnes of cocaine or commit crimes to get commonly available items gets me worried - or for that matters that they cannot simply replicate an effect easily that they have done thousand of times.

Instead of having an engineer ask for 50 bottles of wine perhaps they could ask for a dinner comprising of:

Rare Wine
Rare Food
Rare Dessert
A Rare Cigar to smoke after the food
A Rare whiskey to drink with the Cigar

Same kind of hunt but I can actually get it in ONE trip with some research.

 

[NVNM]

Same kind of hunt but I can actually get it in ONE trip with some research.

With the almost static economy, people would create to-do lists for engineers within a day or two. While I don't mind this, the devs apparently do, since it lessens the grind.

 

[Snarfbuckle]

With the almost static economy, people would create to-do lists for engineers within a day or two. While I don't mind this, the devs apparently do, since it lessens the grind.

It could easily be randomized per encounter so that no shopping list is the same.

I mean, I would find it more realistic if the Engineer that wanted 20 tonnes of hard drugs from one CMDR might now want something else like 20 tonnes of medicines to survive the binge.

 

[NVNM]

It could easily be randomized per encounter so that no shopping list is the same.

I mean, I would find it more realistic if the Engineer that wanted 20 tonnes of hard drugs from one CMDR might now want something else like 20 tonnes of medicines to survive the binge.

True, but as long as the places that sell these commodities aren't also randomized (and that's hard since the economy is only updated sporadically) you'd still be able to make a "quickest way to get X for engineer Y this week" list. It also makes the system close to the daily quest grind other games have, which is just awful.

 

[Snarfbuckle]

True, but as long as the places that sell these commodities aren't also randomized (and that's hard since the economy is only updated sporadically) you'd still be able to make a "quickest way to get X for engineer Y this week" list. It also makes the system close to the daily quest grind other games have, which is just awful.

Which is basically no difference today where you just pick route and check how many times you must do it.

They could even call in a favor and ask us to go to X system and do a job (any job) for Y faction.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

I don't have an issue with Engineers.
I don't favor one faction over another, I don't support one power over another.
I out for the credits, and I don't care who's they were as long as they end up mine.

I'm not a huge fan of upgrades being nearly entirely random - we do get to pick what upgrade to try for at least.
Nor am I a huge fan of only one upgrade at a time.
But that's gaming - it's not the way I'd have designed it, but it is what it is.

I don't even mind that materials, data and even commodities are needed, or that some of them are rare, as long as they can be obtained with odds better than beating the house in Vegas.

It seems a pretty common theme though, especially in games:

"This isn't exactly what I want, so I hate it and everyone else should to, let me post my hate to social media and make everyone think the way I do, because I know I'm right."

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

Gameplay does not have to be mindless grind.
What I lack with engineers is a LOGIC behind the tasks.

I get more WoW "collect X wolf teeth to get Y" feeling than rewarding gameplay.

Palin could instead of wanting X number of alien artifacts ask us to find a specific kind of world, sun, planet and collect mineral samples or something that would remind me of actual SCIENCE.

Engineers that ask me to get 50 tonnes of cocaine or commit crimes to get commonly available items gets me worried - or for that matters that they cannot simply replicate an effect easily that they have done thousand of times.

Instead of having an engineer ask for 50 bottles of wine perhaps they could ask for a dinner comprising of:

Rare Wine
Rare Food
Rare Dessert
A Rare Cigar to smoke after the food
A Rare whiskey to drink with the Cigar

Same kind of hunt but I can actually get it in ONE trip with some research.

I didn't say it was GOOD gameplay now....

I'd be all for more intuitive and detailed "introduction quests" that are tailored to each engineer, and then a lighter cost after the engineer is unlocked, but at this point it's whatever...

MMO fetch quests are the lowest common denominator choice because they're easily understood, so it was likely a design choice constrained by a lack of time to Q&A test that side of the update.