Wait wait wait, can someone fill me in here as I've been living under a rock. Engineers are staying the same except for the removal of engineer commodities from engineer blueprints?
Why so much hate for the Engineers?
- Thread starter Kapow
- Start date
Wait wait wait, can someone fill me in here as I've been living under a rock. Engineers are staying the same except for the removal of engineer commodities from engineer blueprints?
Nope I play in open and do CGs. Admittedly not for a while. But I used to do trade CGs in a shield less T6 in open.
They are not necessary. But they do help.
I wanted to like Engineers. I really did. I have come back to it in Beta because ... well, we only have to bring fish.
And you sit there watching the screen as these sliders move up and down, and various factors change in percentages .... and there's your fix. It seems so silly, because you have no skill involved, no way of influencing the way the sliders move, you just sit and watch.
Might as well have a stack of cards, shuffled and then laid out in front of you. This must have been awful when you had to go fetch stuff and invest hours and hours to do this ! Patience, anyone?
And you sit there watching the screen as these sliders move up and down, and various factors change in percentages .... and there's your fix. It seems so silly, because you have no skill involved, no way of influencing the way the sliders move, you just sit and watch.
Might as well have a stack of cards, shuffled and then laid out in front of you. This must have been awful when you had to go fetch stuff and invest hours and hours to do this ! Patience, anyone?
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Try it now in a shielded T6 and let me know how much you loose if you do not combat log. of course you could be lucky and have bad uPnP thus not see many commanders, but when you jump into instance with 12 commanders and at least 6 are out there to pirate, then the question of engineers being optional is rather comical...
Well actually you don't need to use your brain... You just need to grind mats and press one button to wait for a roll. Exactly the opposite of what you describe.. People want content that would require a brain rather then kill it...
I honestly think that you meant it as a good troll mate
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I have never combat logged either, and yes I see lots of commanders as well. They have never got me thankfully.
See, you don't know planning. It's a grind only if you don't multitask and force yourself to grind specific mats instead of planning for more of them at once doing different tasks. I have all the engineers rank 5 and all my ships engineered, all with casual play (mostly weekends).
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Well I will take this as my final lines in this thread, i am sure to your relief.
Kapow - I do not deny that YOU, and others, do not like the engineers. But I will state that MYSELF, and others, do like the engineers. There are changes coming in the next pass, so hopefully that will allow you to enjoy them more. I feel it is a shame that you do not enjoy your Elite experience as much as I do, as I get a lot of enjoyment out of the game.
GunnerBill - I am afraid you seem to need to learn to read with more understanding of what you are actually reading. I clearly state that I have found the engineers quite enjoyable, and also that others do not. You are then saying I am wrong. I do not understand how I can be wrong here, as I know I do find the engineers enjoyable, and that I also know other people do not. Am I wrong because I stated something you disagree with? Or am I wrong because you can not argue with the fact I like the engineers, and so just use general denial as a tool to try to degenerate my valid point that some of us out there do like the engineers?
Regards.
Kapow - I do not deny that YOU, and others, do not like the engineers. But I will state that MYSELF, and others, do like the engineers. There are changes coming in the next pass, so hopefully that will allow you to enjoy them more. I feel it is a shame that you do not enjoy your Elite experience as much as I do, as I get a lot of enjoyment out of the game.
GunnerBill - I am afraid you seem to need to learn to read with more understanding of what you are actually reading. I clearly state that I have found the engineers quite enjoyable, and also that others do not. You are then saying I am wrong. I do not understand how I can be wrong here, as I know I do find the engineers enjoyable, and that I also know other people do not. Am I wrong because I stated something you disagree with? Or am I wrong because you can not argue with the fact I like the engineers, and so just use general denial as a tool to try to degenerate my valid point that some of us out there do like the engineers?
Regards.
verminstar
Banned
Simple choice...I dont see them as needed to continue to enjoy the game, hence dont stress meself over them so much. Also...it means spending time in the bubble...something I avoid doing as bubble life is not an aspect of the game I particularly enjoy. If there was some way of just buying the commodities, then happy days, but Im lazy and want everything right now...which is why Im an explorer...?
Im too laid back to care although playing completely unmodded is not without cost...playing in open is very hazardous and the gap between fully modded and a rate is what the literal g frak? Anyway...yeah unmodded means yer nothing more than target practice but out here in the black it really doesnt make that much difference. Some make the claim that explorers need mods too but thats merely their opinion...mine is I dont need them and dont see the hassle of being in the bubble that long is enough to justify the result.
Im too laid back to care although playing completely unmodded is not without cost...playing in open is very hazardous and the gap between fully modded and a rate is what the literal g frak? Anyway...yeah unmodded means yer nothing more than target practice but out here in the black it really doesnt make that much difference. Some make the claim that explorers need mods too but thats merely their opinion...mine is I dont need them and dont see the hassle of being in the bubble that long is enough to justify the result.
Ok, so you were being serious (not sure if that isn't worse )- Going on a website and selecting materials I need to then go and grind them in a planned way is still completely non engaging and highly tedious grind. I have pretty much all the mats and it wasn't the point of my post if you read it. You have completely missed my post.
How is it enjoyable or engaging (something to be cherished) to ferry over 200 gold - something we do all the time for missions. What is enjoyable or fund about ranking up with a faction I have opposed for ages..
Grinding 5 materials together still doesn't make for good gameplay... Nor for engaging gameplay and definitely not for skilled gameplay. Instead it makes for a slightly less time consuming time dump - nothing intelligent about it. And for crying out loud, relying on 3rd party tools (websites, trailer decodings ect) is not good gameplay!
No - absolutely not, a lot of us came here for Elite not Freelancer, or Privateer or Wing Commander - from my time playing a friends kickstarter Star Citizen account it felt very like WC\privateer - this is good for them cos that's what folk who are backing that game want, but not here please.
Now, I'm all for having more interesting missions and better backstory in the universe at large, but please no campaigns or character arc or any of the like - and especially no enforced "must be in a group" co-op missions - leave that to SC or others - lets just have an improved Elite.
See, i was talking about learning. You dont know learning either, you should know at least some basic few recipes, if not most of them, so you shouldn't need to go "on a website and select materials".
You say tedious, i say perseverance. I chose my words well in my first post.
3rd party tools appeared because people are unable (too lazy) to do it by themselves. I did part of the engineering with (real) pen and paper, oldschool, and it was fun.
We have cargo bays in our ships, so ferrying 200 gold is part of the game. Maybe it's not the game for you, i don't know what you and people like you expect, have it all by doing nothing?
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Sorry I nearly missed this. Your argument against engineers did not appear to be related to whether or not you enjoyed it. I obviously cannot refute your statement that you, sorry, you enjoyed enineering.
But it's this I was referring too:
And I have to admit after all that posturing with the you this and you that I did not read the rest, TL;DR if you like.
However you have not read my post, how exactly do you counter modded PA's and did FD or did FD not nerf NPC engineer mods for the reason I stated?
If you have no desire to get allied with Sirius Corp then don't bother. Marco Quent offers only lower rank versions upgrades you can get elsewhere; Hera Tani and The Dweller both offer the same upgrades and better versions than Marco Qwent - Marco is entirely optional.
Edit : To answer my own question, I guess you need Marco for access to Prof Palin for the Dirty Drives 5. So yeah.... that sucks.
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Fun for you, but if you're a minority then that literally means nothing.
Uh huh, when you have to resort to a strawman or hyperbole then it's a safe bet you're point is weak.
I personally think the engineers it literally treating the playerbase with nothing but contempt. Here; enjoy this lazy**** timesink we've created. What's that? You thought jumping through all the hoops we've demanded would get you the upgrade you wanted? Oooh, so sorry the RNG gods were against you that time - please go do it all again and come back.
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You are definitely correct in one thing - We have a very different definition of fun. Memorizing "recipes" (I still can't believe they called it that) is not fun for me, nor is writing it down blueprints in notes. Especially when I fly a space ship (I would expect the ship has a memory chip that can store more then few kb data??? )
That is what I do at work when I do my schedule, come up with logic solving scripts and when I structure my workload. I really don't want ED to my second job - I want it to be fun and engage me on a game level.. So the only thing I feel you are correct in is that we have a very different definition of Fun.
PS - Nobody I know or play with expect something for nothing, they just want to have fun doing it. Writing down notes (especially in VR) is not fun, remembering 40 recipes (unless you are cooking) is not fun. Hoping for a good roll is not fun unless you have a gambling addiction (in which case I recommend treatment). Engineers and their mechanics is something from a poorly designed mobile freemium game where you expect at any point to receive an option to spend 10 dollars to bypass RNG. If it had depth, story and skill based mechanics (I'm not talking about the ability to write down notes - that has nothing to do with piloting skill what so ever) then I expect that Engineers would have much warmer welcome.. This way it is just a lazily freemium style designed time dump that doesn't respect players time what so ever.
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I like the Engineers. They let me customize my ship to a high degree and try out unique builds that would be impossible with normal gear. It adds gameplay that didn't exist before so I now have moves I can use that were previously not possible.
It's awesome. You guys who are complaining are missing out. Yeah it's work. So is grinding money. The game needs something to work towards, and the benefits of Engineers are extremely generous. But hey, I guess some people will complain about winning the lottery because they have to drive downtown to pick up their check.
It's awesome. You guys who are complaining are missing out. Yeah it's work. So is grinding money. The game needs something to work towards, and the benefits of Engineers are extremely generous. But hey, I guess some people will complain about winning the lottery because they have to drive downtown to pick up their check.
Deleted member 38366
D
I like their Results, but not...
- how some of them are unlocked (i.e. Qwent)
- what they demand in their "Invitation" (You're invited to my place now - but bring tons of goodies before I open my door... Yeah, nice "invitation")
- some of their unlock requirements aren't even in any context to what they offer
- how they work (they're simply not Engineers as they can't and won't build to Player specifications, it's "5 Shades of RNG" instead)
- how at least some of the Materials are placed/acquired... or not (pls. don't mention "Cracked Industrial Firmware" in my vicinity )
- how the total lack of Player-selected, central Cargo storage adds yet another level of frustration
- how the total lack of P2P (Player-to-Player) Markets (Materials/Elements/Data/modded Equipment) blocks any social aspect and prevents all meaningful MMO content that would easily come from it
- how the "Mission Reward only" items add yet another RNG component on top of that RNG mountain
- how the limited distribution of even the purchasable Commodities add yet another "please make 30+ jumps" bunnyhopping Minigame
- how they created CG type Ganker hotspots on some base-level Engineer Systems
- how poorly (if at all) the ENG Bases are defending against Gankers hovering a mere 1000m above their bases, attacking one Landing Ship after another
- the combat-centric approach of almost everyting we got now (Weapons? Hundreds of Mods. Something useful for a Mining Laser, Discovery Scanner or Refinery? Nah, who needs that...)
- them tossing Game Balancing almost completely out of the Window with some whacko-level Boosts Players can easily attain (initial Thermal Shock implementation, anyone?). They should have stayed with the 30% rule on Weapons.
So in short, if I was asked how much enjoyable Gameplay I got out of making those ~1800+ RNGineer Modifications, I'd have to honestly say : Just about none.
But I "walked the walk" and did what was needed.
At least I know how to interpret "Blaze your own Trail", so I didn't have too high expectations.
They work and function, even if only on a very mechanical level. Learn how to mini-max the mechanics and you're done quicker with it.
Very solid idea (self-explanatory), the implementation leaves alot to be desired though.
Unfortunately, most of it being buried deep in the structural concepting - thus too late to easily fix at this point. But that's an old problem.
At least the havoc it caused in the balancing department forced Frontier's hand, so it's getting some tweaks.
- how some of them are unlocked (i.e. Qwent)
- what they demand in their "Invitation" (You're invited to my place now - but bring tons of goodies before I open my door... Yeah, nice "invitation")
- some of their unlock requirements aren't even in any context to what they offer
- how they work (they're simply not Engineers as they can't and won't build to Player specifications, it's "5 Shades of RNG" instead)
- how at least some of the Materials are placed/acquired... or not (pls. don't mention "Cracked Industrial Firmware" in my vicinity
)- how the total lack of Player-selected, central Cargo storage adds yet another level of frustration
- how the total lack of P2P (Player-to-Player) Markets (Materials/Elements/Data/modded Equipment) blocks any social aspect and prevents all meaningful MMO content that would easily come from it
- how the "Mission Reward only" items add yet another RNG component on top of that RNG mountain
- how the limited distribution of even the purchasable Commodities add yet another "please make 30+ jumps" bunnyhopping Minigame
- how they created CG type Ganker hotspots on some base-level Engineer Systems
- how poorly (if at all) the ENG Bases are defending against Gankers hovering a mere 1000m above their bases, attacking one Landing Ship after another
- the combat-centric approach of almost everyting we got now (Weapons? Hundreds of Mods. Something useful for a Mining Laser, Discovery Scanner or Refinery? Nah, who needs that...)
- them tossing Game Balancing almost completely out of the Window with some whacko-level Boosts Players can easily attain (initial Thermal Shock implementation, anyone?). They should have stayed with the 30% rule on Weapons.
So in short, if I was asked how much enjoyable Gameplay I got out of making those ~1800+ RNGineer Modifications, I'd have to honestly say : Just about none.
But I "walked the walk" and did what was needed.
At least I know how to interpret "Blaze your own Trail", so I didn't have too high expectations.
They work and function, even if only on a very mechanical level. Learn how to mini-max the mechanics and you're done quicker with it.
Very solid idea (self-explanatory), the implementation leaves alot to be desired though.
Unfortunately, most of it being buried deep in the structural concepting - thus too late to easily fix at this point. But that's an old problem.
At least the havoc it caused in the balancing department forced Frontier's hand, so it's getting some tweaks.
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