Why Space Legs?

True. But I doubt EDs flight mechanics will suddenly suck if they add space legs. Fdev aren't going to change something that's great already.

I agree.

But an FPS added on top might not even be possible let alone of a similar standard to ED's flight. NMS&SC have both and can't really do either to a level that matches more dedicated one or the other games from a decade ago let alone ED's current market leading flight example.

Obviously SC is a game from almost a decade ago now so we can't expect too much of it.

The holy grail (that we all want and can pull in 300 million) of well integrated flight/feet/space might not be possible to do. If it is possible FDEV are probably the people to do it, since they've already nailed flight where nobody else has come even close.
 
I agree.

But an FPS added on top might not even be possible let alone of a similar standard to ED's flight. NMS&SC have both and can't really do either to a level that matches more dedicated one or the other games from a decade ago let alone ED's current market leading flight example.
I don't expect it to match a dedicated FPS as I don't expect it to be a FPS. It will be its own thing.

Obviously SC is a game from almost a decade ago now so we can't expect too much of it.
I agree.

The holy grail (that we all want and can pull in 300 million) of well integrated flight/feet/space might not be possible to do. If it is possible FDEV are probably the people to do it, since they've already nailed flight where nobody else has come even close.
True. Let's hope they do.
 
I don't expect it to match a dedicated FPS as I don't expect it to be a FPS. It will be its own thing.

It'll probably have FPS elements. It obviously doesn't need to match things like COD, but it does need to be above the most basic level of delivery instead of an NMS style shooter from the early 90's. Which isn't a concern either given the way FDEV do things. The only concern is "can it be done at all".

True. Let's hope they do.

Wait and see, right now we don't even know if it is feet yet. Nice if it happens, but not a loss if it doesn't just a bonus elsewhere.
 
It'll probably have FPS elements. It obviously doesn't need to match things like COD, but it does need to be above the most basic level of delivery instead of an NMS style shooter from the early 90's. Which isn't a concern either given the way FDEV do things. The only concern is "can it be done at all".
Well, if it can't be done, I'm sure Fdev won't be attepting it. But I see no reason why it cant.

Wait and see, right now we don't even know if it is feet yet. Nice if it happens, but not a loss if it doesn't just a bonus elsewhere.
Yup. As long as he expansion is good, I will get it.
 
Well then this has been very interesting.

With the oft-mentioned caveat (you know who your are!) that we shouldn't worry overmuch until we see the actual product, or at least, the marketing for the actual product, here's my thoughts.

It'll definitely all be optional additional gameplay. So, Yay!

If any or all of the ideas expressed so far in this thread are even close to the things FD finally deliver, I'll take it ALL for a looksee, and quite a bit of it for permanent additions to my Elite-time.

I'd still rather FD concentrated on fleshing out the base game/Horizons before embarking on such ambitious additions.

I rather suspect many of the contributors to this thread will be greatly disappointed. I hope not, I really, really do, honestly, but I think you have far higher expectations of what could be delivered versus what FD can deliver. I hope I'm wrong.

Thanks again to all contributors :D
 
Scams target people who don't know its a scam, that's why Nigerian lottery win e-mails have dreadful English in them they are deliberately weeding out the people who can immediately see it for what it is.

With SC they are weeding out people who know how much video games cost to buy.
Last time I'm going to comment on this, because I think I'll have made my point by now.

So you are against ARX then? I mean, ARX, and all game's payment methods that use a virtual middle currency between real world money and in-game money, like SWTOR does and like STO does and like Elite Dangerous does, are targeting people don't realise it's a scam.

But StigBob doesn't mind, because StigBob isn't getting scammed so StigBob doesn't care.

I see Star Citizen the same as Twitch, you can give them A LOT of money if you have lots of money to give and are that way inclined, but they're not trying to trick you by hiding what's going on. They clearly state this is how much these things will cost you.

Anyway, as I said, I'm not commenting on this again. I understand your opinion, StigBob. I just wish you could see it from my point of view as well.

I've said enough.
 
Last time I'm going to comment on this, because I think I'll have made my point by now.

So you are against ARX then? I mean, ARX, and all game's payment methods that use a virtual middle currency between real world money and in-game money, like SWTOR does and like STO does and like Elite Dangerous does, are targeting people don't realise it's a scam.

But StigBob doesn't mind, because StigBob isn't getting scammed so StigBob doesn't care.

I see Star Citizen the same as Twitch, you can give them A LOT of money if you have lots of money to give and are that way inclined, but they're not trying to trick you by hiding what's going on. They clearly state this is how much these things will cost you.

Anyway, as I said, I'm not commenting on this again. I understand your opinion, StigBob. I just wish you could see it from my point of view as well.

I've said enough.

SC is also targeted at the sort of people who don't get uppity about being kept waiting six years for the product they bought and was supposed to be delivered to them in 2014. I refunded and went elsewhere for a new astronomy scope after two weeks of excuses, got the same model elsewhere in four days. How long will you continue to wait for SC ?, given they've already cancelled your chance of a refund I think you've left it too long already.

CIG don't want "customers" like me they want people who don't track time or price or what they've said already.

ARX is great, it means I don't have to pay a sub for ED because the people who choose to buy spaceship paint do it for me. I like the freebies. FDEV were open and honest about that from the start, which I respect.
 
If only there was a why-thread about solo/open, it'd be a full house.
75d5fd7ae329aaf5ef52f36f48fcde79.jpg


Oh can't forget why multi-crew
 
Well then this has been very interesting.

With the oft-mentioned caveat (you know who your are!) that we shouldn't worry overmuch until we see the actual product, or at least, the marketing for the actual product, here's my thoughts.

It'll definitely all be optional additional gameplay. So, Yay!

If any or all of the ideas expressed so far in this thread are even close to the things FD finally deliver, I'll take it ALL for a looksee, and quite a bit of it for permanent additions to my Elite-time.

I'd still rather FD concentrated on fleshing out the base game/Horizons before embarking on such ambitious additions.

I rather suspect many of the contributors to this thread will be greatly disappointed. I hope not, I really, really do, honestly, but I think you have far higher expectations of what could be delivered versus what FD can deliver. I hope I'm wrong.

Thanks again to all contributors :D
Glad we enightened you into the potential we see in space legs :cool: and I am happy to have helped.

Now for your next forum challenge, start a thread about how you foresee FDev "fleshing out the base game/Horizons before embarking on such ambitious additions." I cannot see much, if anything more, being doable while player interaciton is constrained to scan/shoot/scoop, enlighten me. You've seen the work I've put into this thread, and my bucket list thread, and Sysmon's elaborate suggestions and exquisitely explained examples of how they would work, so we won't be accepting a tabloid-esque couple of paragraphs as an article, what I would like to see is something more like a treatise, with your suggestions (note the plural) fleshed out like sysmon's excellent contribution.

Wow that's the most times I've ever seen one person mentions someone's name in one post.
I've got a really bad habbit of multiquoting 2,3 or 4 pages of a thread at a time and replying to all the quoted messages, often times I'm replying numerous times to the same person whether in support or opposition of their expressed position, so you probably "aint seen nuthin yet" regarding recurrences of one name numerous times in one post.

Oh can't forget why multi-crew
Multicrew - Why indeed?
 
Glad we enightened you into the potential we see in space legs :cool: and I am happy to have helped.

Now for your next forum challenge, start a thread about how you foresee FDev "fleshing out the base game/Horizons before embarking on such ambitious additions." I cannot see much, if anything more, being doable while player interaciton is constrained to scan/shoot/scoop, enlighten me. You've seen the work I've put into this thread, and my bucket list thread, and Sysmon's elaborate suggestions and exquisitely explained examples of how they would work, so we won't be accepting a tabloid-esque couple of paragraphs as an article, what I would like to see is something more like a treatise, with your suggestions (note the plural) fleshed out like sysmon's excellent contribution.


I've got a really bad habbit of multiquoting 2,3 or 4 pages of a thread at a time and replying to all the quoted messages, often times I'm replying numerous times to the same person whether in support or opposition of their expressed position, so you probably "aint seen nuthin yet" regarding recurrences of one name numerous times in one post.


Multicrew - Why indeed?
Multi crew wouldnt be as bad if we could deploy both slf together. As it stands, you are correct
 
Honestly, anything that brings more immersion to the game is fine by me. If I have to walk to my ship then so be it, something new to do. All these things can be built on to make them more interesting but they need to be in the game in the first place to make any progress. I am totally fine with space legs.
 
There's a lot of debate about when or if space legs are going to be a thing and that has raised an enormous question in my mind. Why? (...) How long before that gets old? (...)
A lot of the dissatisfaction with ED seems to stem from just how long things take to achieve. (...) How does having legs do anything other than make matters even worse in that regard? (...) How do you see legs being implemented, and immersion aside, what will legs add without taking anything away?

These are my thoughts exactly.
Also, when ever I see someone say SPACE LEGS! It always reminds me of this:
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8Bi2RLiphY

It sounds like a good enough idea, until you really start thinking about it.

It also reminds me of the mob mentality in the early years of Guild Wars 2 (no idea how it is today, stopped playing that) someone would come up with an idea and if it got enough momentum on the forums the developers would implement it, regardless of how terrible it might be and if they had to take it away days after, true story.

I don't think people realize how much ED was made for macro detail. If we could get up and walk just around the landing pads we'd be welcomed to PS2 era graphics. As is you simply cannot get up and close to these assets.
So everything would have to be reworked, and that would translate in higher system specs to run the game. RIP consoles right there, although this could be a paid expansion for PC only. Even assuming all that, we are still looking at considerable time and money investment for what? People WILL get bored of it soon enough all while complaining it wasn't done right and it should have been done in this or that way.

Now before someone label me a nay sayer, here's how I think it could work, just so I can put the other side of the coin forward:

A feasible way to do it would be to from the Station Services menu select and option to go inside the station.
That would load up an area where you could walk around and see other commanders walking around. Basically black screen before you "walk out the elevator." Same to get back into your pilot seat. That right there would cut on not only walking time but also the problem of having to model the ship interiors and the landing pads nice enough for someone to walk in them an see them up close.
Once inside the station, there would be lounge areas, contacts, shops. The NPCs in these could be just standing with idle animations, so no worries about colliding with players.
These areas could be modular and be rendered like a dungeon crawler game, that would mean with relative low work (all things considering) we could have a good variety of station interiors so they wouldn't all look the same, by having a good variety of not only the geometry of these modules, but also the textures applied to them. A bar scene for example can looks massively different depending on the textures used without even changing the geometry, it can be given a dive bar look, or a sophisticated feel.
Add in windows on these instances with NPC ships coming and going and boom, lovely place to be.

On the lounge areas FDev could even put games for players to challenge each other, like darts, pool, cards where you could bet your credits and maybe even your ships! I believe this to be essential, because having simple NPC contacts to provide the services you can already get from your chair would make this whole thing a huge waste of time. Player interaction would be key and that normally boils down to shooting, which would mean Fdev would have to develop a shooter game...
Having these bar games would, from a developing point of view, be easier (in my opinion) while providing that interaction people are craving, specially when you consider they can already shoot each other's ships and turning ED into yet another shooter game would add nothing.
 
I've replied inline in orange text within the quote itself.

These are my thoughts exactly.
Also, when ever I see someone say SPACE LEGS! It always reminds me of this:
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8Bi2RLiphY

It sounds like a good enough idea, until you really start thinking about it.

It also reminds me of the mob mentality in the early years of Guild Wars 2 (no idea how it is today, stopped playing that) someone would come up with an idea and if it got enough momentum on the forums the developers would implement it, regardless of how terrible it might be and if they had to take it away days after, true story.
In many respects, I wish FDev woudl take a leaf out of that book, there have been numerous great suggestions that have been ignored and possibly even forgotten abour on this forum over the years.
I don't think people realize how much ED was made for macro detail. If we could get up and walk just around the landing pads we'd be welcomed to PS2 era graphics. As is you simply cannot get up and close to these assets.
So everything would have to be reworked, and that would translate in higher system specs to run the game. RIP consoles right there, although this could be a paid expansion for PC only. Even assuming all that, we are still looking at considerable time and money investment for what? People WILL get bored of it soon enough all while complaining it wasn't done right and it should have been done in this or that way.
Have you seen the thread about the game assets being modelled in 16k resolution of detail, and presumably downsampled to current levels of detail. Even if you caught something that looked like Quake 1 levels of detail by using the free cam just now, you would have to bare in mind that in much the same way as the pilots head is not modelled in VR, or barnacles etc are one way mirrors in those weird clipping glitches as they have no inside rendering, because you are normally tens of metres away from the landing pad corners will have been cut there to increase game performance with current hardware.

Now before someone label me a nay sayer, here's how I think it could work, just so I can put the other side of the coin forward:

A feasible way to do it would be to from the Station Services menu select and option to go inside the station.
That would load up an area where you could walk around and see other commanders walking around. Basically black screen before you "walk out the elevator." Same to get back into your pilot seat. That right there would cut on not only walking time but also the problem of having to model the ship interiors and the landing pads nice enough for someone to walk in them an see them up close.
Once inside the station, there would be lounge areas, contacts, shops. The NPCs in these could be just standing with idle animations, so no worries about colliding with players.
These areas could be modular and be rendered like a dungeon crawler game, that would mean with relative low work (all things considering) we could have a good variety of station interiors so they wouldn't all look the same, by having a good variety of not only the geometry of these modules, but also the textures applied to them. A bar scene for example can looks massively different depending on the textures used without even changing the geometry, it can be given a dive bar look, or a sophisticated feel.
Add in windows on these instances with NPC ships coming and going and boom, lovely place to be.
Sorry - but that sounds absolutely deplorable, and totally out of kilter with what FDev have suggested "legs" gameplay would entail. Just look through this thread for some of the great suggestions of what it should be and quotes of what has beenmentioned, hinted at, or alluded to by FDev. The fade to black transitions to SRV/SLF are just a place holder becaue the game doesn't allow the pilot to walk around their ship. The SLF might stay a black screen because of telpresence, its not like you need to walk to and physically climb into the fighter to fly it, and due to their lack of landing gear its not like you could use it as a mode of transport to fly to a destination. However the SRV was designed for boarding and disembarking.
On the lounge areas FDev could even put games for players to challenge each other, like darts, pool, cards where you could bet your credits and maybe even your ships! I believe this to be essential, because having simple NPC contacts to provide the services you can already get from your chair would make this whole thing a huge waste of time. Player interaction would be key and that normally boils down to shooting, which would mean Fdev would have to develop a shooter game...
Having these bar games would, from a developing point of view, be easier (in my opinion) while providing that interaction people are craving, specially when you consider they can already shoot each other's ships and turning ED into yet another shooter game would add nothing.
It is widely accepted that the missions you could get from an NPC mission giver in a quet corner of a shaddowy bar would be off the books, riskier, more rewarding, possibly including first person play. So its not going to be the case that you walk to a bar to meet an NPC to shake hands on the deliver X tonnes of survival shelters missions on the bulletin board. These would be where your relationship with BGS factions would come into play, if you were friendly enough with the blue hand mafia of hip 16852 (randomly generated names for faction and system) they might tell you that they have a chopshop in section 672D of the station where they sell stolen modules at a substantial discount. Or you might get wind of a drug dealer in a higher security area of space, like Aisling territory, where there is no black market and the commodoties such as narcotics and slaves are prohibited. The idea about playing bargames to bet credits/ships etc, while potentially interesting, who wouldn't want to win a conda in a game of cards - very han solo - while entertaining, would be very unlikely in the game as introducing gambling like that would almost certainly increase the games PEGI rating age restrictions. It would also open a mechanic for gold farming, "gimme £150 via paypal and I'll throw (as in deliberately lose, not as in host the game) a game of cards with you where you can bet on my fully engineered FDL.

Heres a link to the 16k thread I mentioned:
 
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