Why the animals aren't the stars of the game - and what needs to be done about it

[Mkau]

Would be cool if the tiker would actually play with rocks we put into the habitat, like climb on them etc. That would also make building more meaningful. At the moment, the animals do not care if you put all the plants in one corner and build a flat habitat in a boring shape.

Just simple things like a tiger being more fond of climbing on rocks to sleep on them,clean itself or to get a better viewing point would already help strengthening the immersion/bond.

Same goes for how the group sizes/animal number in one enclosure is currently preset.For example you can have the whole map as one enclosure and if you have 7 instead of 6 zebras,the zebras' welfare is going to get down,they will start going crazy,fighting and injurying each other and maybe even die.
That system really needs a new calculation method.

 

[NZFanatic]

I think it's worth noting that there has been a dev response to the coat variation in animals, but the response was basically "we are looking into it but it's difficult to do". Personally I don't fully understand why - they already have coat variation in the form of what the game calls 'albinos', which are already tied to genetics, so adding more variation should be doable.

 

[horse14t]

I'm a Zoo Tycoon player and I played Planet Zoo for a few weeks but now I have no motive to play it anymore and have actually gone back to playing/modding Zoo Tycoon 2.
In ZT2 there's a Status tab that tells you what the animal is doing and emoticons that pop up once they've completed an action that makes them happy, sad, angry, or fulfills a need they have.
Also, if you click on an animal's Status tab and then close out and switch to following another animal, the animal menu will still be on the Status tab and not the default Needs tab! I find it frustrating in PZ that if I want to check two animals genetics I have to examine the first animal's genetic percentages, memorize them and then go to the second animal and click through the tabs to get back to the genetics tab and then back to first to make sure I remember their genetics right etc. It's tedious and draining... The whole game is after awhile...

For me, in PZ I got tired of building and micromanaging constantly and animals are boring to watch with them just running around aimlessly all the time except when the Keeper comes to feed, with very little interaction.
PZ just feels more like a chore with little pay off to me. It's just work, work, work with very little 'fun' in it after awhile.

In ZT2 though, even though all animals of a species are coded the same, the random behaviour generator made the animals seem like they had more personality. Some individuals would play more, fight more, climb more, sleep more, hunt/kill more, play in water or eat more, etc. Not to mention variants like the rare two King Cheetah variants and the slightly more common White Tiger which also added something special when 'bonding' to the animals. I still remember building an Ethiopian Wolf habitat with a friend years ago and a wolf that we named Swiftkill went around murdering every other female in the pack to the point where we named her the queen of the pack because no other wolf we threw in there could kill her.

ZT2 is an old game, yes but it has so much charm and simplicity, and personality to it that I feel PZ is lacking at the moment. I don't give a frick about what my vendors are doing or what thing is broken or what dumb thing guests are complaining about because they have nothing better to do; I want to see my animals actually do things and take care of them and give them families and a happy life.. But if I do that, oh your first offspring is a boy, well to bad they're sold or separated from you as soon as they grow up because fighting! A girl? To bad, she'll never be able to have babies because inbreeding! Sandbox mode? You can turn all that off but then there's even less to watch your animals do because everything will always be fine!

Another thing, I know it's unrealistic but in ZT2 an animal that was prone to killing others of their species, like wolves and bears would NEVER touch their offspring and even continue being peaceful with them when they grew up (They also don't mate with them...). I've seen my parent animals still play and call and interact with their full grown babies or adult siblings helping take care of their baby siblings etc.

I agree that there needs to be more emphasis on the animals rather than building... And don't get me wrong, I love building stuff, but with so little pay off for it, after awhile I just go "What's the point? The only ones that care are the guests... The animals couldn't care less..."

 

[paul78]

Huh I don’t notice zt2 having a random behavior generator? The only difference I see is the nursing capability and the lions pick up their cub. Don’t get me wrong zt2 is great but I find the animals more interesting in planet zoo actually.

 

[horse14t]

Huh I don’t notice zt2 having a random behavior generator? The only difference I see is the nursing capability and the lions pick up their cub. Don’t get me wrong zt2 is great but I find the animals more interesting in planet zoo actually.

I call it that but basically, animals will do different things depending on needs, what's available, species, and the amount of other animals in an enclosure. For example, their Enrichment need is low... Depending on what the RNG rolls they could choose to pick up a toy, hit a toy, climb a rock or tree, look at something, investigate something, sniff something, play with/chase another animal, hunt a live food enrichment, etc. Just with some animals, they tend to hit the same solution to the need more often then others, creating an illusion of a proper personality. Just about every behaviour can be interrupted too by other things, such as placing a new item near them or an animal calling to them.

The RNG also determines who wins the fights to the death and what passive behaviours will play, such as a bird cleaning it's feathers, walking around or flying. Some behaviours can be a bit more rare than others.

Also, if you put a new item in an exhibit they're not familiar with the animals will come to investigate the new item, one might even use it right away while others will go back to whatever they were doing before.

Another thing is, got an animal with no one to socialize with? No problem, the animal will call to another animal, in a different, but close habitat to fulfill it! Doesn't even have to be the same species! For example I've seen a lone lion call to a polar bear before. Sometimes the other animal even replies back, or if it's a prey animal flee!

Another thing is that in ZT2 you can have 'miscarriages' as if an animal is going to give birth or is building a nest; if that animal gets interrupted before giving birth/laying their eggs (for example an animal happens to call or play chase them in that moment) it'll cancel the 'About to give birth' or 'Building a nest' behaviour and the pregnancy meter will reset. Therefor, no babies produced. You'll have to wait until they get pregnant again once the animal's fertility resets. (Yes there is a timer for every species in the coding for when they can get pregnant again after they have a miscarriage or their babies grow up.)

The amount of little details like that are what really pull me into the game more at the moment compared to PZ.

 

[Dinocanid]

I agree wholeheartedly with the OP, at the moment the animals just lack life (even though they're meant to be the main focus). Nowadays I don't even bother watching the animals, as they don't do anything except walk around the exhibit or use the singular playing animation with their offspring. Adults between species don't interact at all besides fighting and mating from what I've seen, they just act as if the others don't even exist.

I'm not a fan of making elaborate builds, I'm happy with just downloading stuff from the workshop and plopping them down wherever. I want to bond and really care about the animals in my zoo, and although the animations are beautifully done the animals just aren't memorable. Each individual of a species will act (and most of the time look), exactly the same as the last one, so at this point I don't even feel a need to watch my animals anymore. Most of my gameplay now consists of hovering above the zoo at max speed and replacing, managing the animal population as needed. The only time I really look in an enclosure is if I've never seen the albino version of that animal before.

I believe the game still has room to grow and gain new mechanics to make things even better, I'm just commenting on how the game is currently. I know people have said time again not to compare PZ to Zt2 or WP, but it's pretty hard not to. Does the game have to be exactly like these? No, PZ is it's own game. However, I believe it should take inspiration from those games. These comparisons are made because there's things that those other games did well, which would make PZ even better in the long run. More interactions between animals would make thing 10x better, even if it seems small. For example, grooming and playing with other adults, moving as a herd, mothers nursing their offspring (or males regurgitating for their offspring), eggs, sleeping in a pile together, calling to each other, color variations, etc. These are all things Zt2 had years ago, and it made these animals feel alive. Having them here would do the same thing.

 

[paul78]

@horse14t huh I guess I never really noticed. One of the things that bugged me most after playing zoo tycoon 2013 and now planet zoo is the awful animations in zt2. I mean the bears seem to have a awkward bounce to them. I used to want the RR remake lion more than anything but ever waiting yrs and yrs that gets kind of tiring. I’m more then happy with planet zoo’s lion. The community dwindled massively over the years also. We’ll have fun with zt2 heck I’m so hooked on this game I could never go back lol.

 

[horse14t]

@horse14t huh I guess I never really noticed. One of the things that bugged me most after playing zoo tycoon 2013 and now planet zoo is the awful animations in zt2. I mean the bears seem to have a awkward bounce to them. I used to want the RR remake lion more than anything but ever waiting yrs and yrs that gets kind of tiring. I’m more then happy with planet zoo’s lion. The community dwindled massively over the years also. We’ll have fun with zt2 heck I’m so hooked on this game I could never go back lol.

Lol, well the AD team just released a teaser for the lion on Christmas:
https://thezt2roundtable.com/aurora-designs-project-updates-t19295-s4760.html
They say the head isn't quite ready but it's getting close (finally)
That and they released the Meerkat back in April 2019:
RR Meerkat Release!
Personally though I don't play with RR, at least while it's not complete and has various bugs.

I remember a time when it was thought impossible to create new animations for ZT2. Now people can create new animations with ease given enough patience and practice. AD Is even making animations for their remakes.
People have made new animations for things like pterosaurs, sauropods, and snakes. Don't know about bears though.
Then again the game is 16 years old and back then 3D computer gaming was still relatively new so I can forgive the animations and some of the clunkiness. So long as it doesn't affect game play to much. I.E. Crashes or something similar.
The Vanilla Grizzly is ugly as heck though I will agree! So much so that the design team I'm with made a Vanilla-style remake of it:
Grizzly Remake
I do plan on tweeking the skin a bit to make it a bit better though... Eventually.

 

[paul78]

Yeah I did see it actually. Looks nice so far. Only real question is when will it finally be released lol. I’ll check it out when it’s finished. Don’t get me wrong I’ve always appreciated what AD has done for every one but I’ve completely moved on from the game even before PZ came out really. I know progress slowed way down after Hendrix retired as I think he was the glue that held the team together. Now I’ve heard rumors he’s doing stuff for this game now.

 

[horse14t]

Yeah I did see it actually. Looks nice so far. Only real question is when will it finally be released lol. I’ll check it out when it’s finished. Don’t get me wrong I’ve always appreciated what AD has done for every one but I’ve completely moved on from the game even before PZ came out really. I know progress slowed way down after Hendrix retired as I think he was the glue that held the team together. Now I’ve heard rumors he’s doing stuff for this game now.

Yeah HENDRIX retiring was a big blow unfortunately. And yes, he is working in the PZ modding community. I'm in a couple of Discord servers with him in it. He's developing modding tools for PZ and helping decode the game files.

 

[NZFanatic]

Part of wishes there was still an active modding community for the original Zoo Tycoon (or Complete Collection, I guess). The simplicity of that game was a ton of fun, but the only real drawback was the lack of variety in buildings mostly and a few unrealistic things like the White Bengal Tiger and Black Leopard being separate animals from their non-mutant counterparts (as well them being classed as endangered).

I always fantasised of adding hundreds of new animals to the OG Zoo Tycoon. Tons of antelope, bears, big cats, and so on. I once used the APE to convert the black rhinoceros into a white rhinoceros but it glitched out on me.

 

[horse14t]

Part of wishes there was still an active modding community for the original Zoo Tycoon (or Complete Collection, I guess). The simplicity of that game was a ton of fun, but the only real drawback was the lack of variety in buildings mostly and a few unrealistic things like the White Bengal Tiger and Black Leopard being separate animals from their non-mutant counterparts (as well them being classed as endangered).

I always fantasised of adding hundreds of new animals to the OG Zoo Tycoon. Tons of antelope, bears, big cats, and so on. I once used the APE to convert the black rhinoceros into a white rhinoceros but it glitched out on me.

You can still find mods for ZT1 however it can be difficult. Especially since the modding community for it has died almost completely over the years.
You can find some here and it's even still active:
Zootek Phoenix
Though you need an account to see the download links.
You can also find some here:
ZTCDD

The reason why the White Tiger and Black Leopard were separate in ZT1 was because Blue Fang wasn't sure if variant coding would work at the time while making ZT1. A left over of an experiment so to speak that was improved in ZT2 when actual variants were introduced in Endangered Species. Actually, the moose variant in ZT2 is in homage to ZT1 as it resembled the moose's sprite from ZT1. The Killer Penguin, introduced as a secret animal in Extinct Animals is also a direct easter egg from ZT1 as well as the Black Leopard free bonus download.

I never use APE or APE2 personally. Find myself fixing issues caused by the programs more often then not. I prefer manual coding myself. It's slower, but much easier to see where you may screw up if you do at all.

 

[NZFanatic]

The reason why the White Tiger and Black Leopard were separate in ZT1 was because Blue Fang wasn't sure if variant coding would work at the time while making ZT1.

That's sort of what I mean. Given what people can do with coding now, it'd be amazing if someone went back to ZT1/CC (preferably the latter as the most 'updated' version of the original game) and started going through it to bring it up to a more modern standard. That is to say, keep the gameplay and graphics exactly as they are, but update the information, change the mutations into variants, and maybe create some new content like what was done for Age of Empires II.

In fact, if I was Microsoft, I'd probably do it just for the sake of it. Make "Zoo Tycoon Complete Collection HD" or something and hire some small team of coders and artists to reinvigorate the game. One thing I always wanted was, for example, mini-exhibits like in the 2013 edition, or even a broader range of animal houses (like a meerkat house, or a red panda house, a lemur house, that kind of thing; a way to include these staple zoo animals without having to increase the zoom or significantly alter the gameplay). Get rid of the outdated aviary, reptile house, primate house and so on and put new things in. Maybe include an updated pathing system similar to what was in Rollercoaster Tycoon with the ability to create raised walkways and tunnels and such.

Now I'm just rambling into my fantasy.

 

[paul78]

Yeah zt1 was a great game I remember buying it being intrigued by the idea of mixing dinosaurs and regular animals. The dlc was great to there used to be so many. My first impression of zt2 was disappointment when first switching over. It had its perks landscaping was better plus offered some better viewing options. Graphics and animals were a let down but it grew on me over time. Vanilla form for both I’d have to say zt1 looked better overall.

 

[NZFanatic]

Yeah zt1 was a great game I remember buying it being intrigued by the idea of mixing dinosaurs and regular animals. The dlc was great to there used to be so many. My first impression of zt2 was disappointment when first switching over. It had its perks landscaping was better plus offered some better viewing options. Graphics and animals were a let down but it grew on me over time. Vanilla form for both I’d have to say zt1 looked better overall.

Sometimes I just miss how simple ZT1 was. Yeah everything was 2D and boxy but you could still create some beautiful zoos and the range of animals was as good as PZ I think. Though I don't agree with keeping captive cetaceans, the Marine Mania expansion did wonders as well to give us a whole new range of animals (though I was never hugely fond of Dinosaur Digs). I'd love to go back and add, say, "African Adventure" to ZT1. In fact, if I were to remaster it, I'd probably do a continental series. "African Adventure", "Asian Adventure", and "American Adventure", with a smaller "Australian Adventure" bonus pack (since most of Australia's iconic wildlife would be too small to properly represent in ZT1).

 

[paul78]

Yeah there’s no way I would ever approve of cetaceans in zoos or even marine parks. For a game sake tho it provided hrs of entertainment. Captivity does bring out the worst in orcas a otherwise usually none aggressive animal towards humans. There was a viral video from NZ as a matter of fact of a swimmer was approached by what appeared to be a mother orca and it looked like two youngsters they actually seemed very interested in her and swam with her for awhile. Very awesome video.

 

[Dinocanid]

(Just wanted to mention this is getting a bit off topic lol)

 

[paul78]

Yeah I guess it has lol. Sorry about that.

 

[FunnyLiz]

I don't actually need them to act differently. What would be great tho is some "personality" tab for every animal. Something like:

Liam
Bengal tiger
Loves: snacks, playing with rocks
Fears: too many people, water
History: (put whatever is next to the animal origin in market - like "frontier zoo" or "born in xxx")

That would be totaly ok for me. And maybe add more animation between animals - not only between mother and kid and when mating, but between adults or with other species.

This is a goof example of how the game can simply be added. I also miss the Infirmation about what the animal is doing at the moment like in Zoo Tycoon. This is one of the first things i missed in the game. si simple. But this will add a lot more character in the game

 

[FunnyLiz]

Why on earth is a wall of text incoming and why do I care so much?

First of all, let me get straight the basics, as this is very important to me: I am (almost) a one game player. I have one game as a hobby and just play other games from time to time. After EA took the Sims away as my hobby after round about 20 years, I was left with no „main game“ until Planet Zoo game around. I love this game and wish for it to grow, to advance and to be the best and most successful zoo game there has ever been. And I know the Devs are working their butts off to make this game successful and the community managers are working hard to be a bridge between Devs and players. I am incredibly thankful for that.

What the heck is happening?

But lately there has been a mood shift in the Planet Zoo community. When I first heard all the YouTubers suddenly whine that they lost interest in Plan Zoo I could not understand. How can someone be bored by such a creative and wonderful game? I was, to be honest, rather annoyed by this mood shift. But I’m a person who always tries to be empathic and be understanding with people. Which is why I thought about why I am happy with this game and others aren’t. I’m not saying I found every reason there is for the mood shift. But I found one.



I am a builder. I never played Planet Coaster and building things got me hooked with this game. I haven’t had such possibilities to express myself for three years, like others had.

Masked Bandit said in a comment to me and in one of the Brocoaster season Zoo, that he felt the interest in Planet Zoo drop at the time he has to let an animal into a new habitat. Which actually got me thinking. And I realised that I myself build, watch the animals for three minutes, build again. And build, and build, and build.

How to change what is happening now
However, this is a zoo game. The animals should be the main aspect of the game, should keep players interested. But they aren’t the main aspect. And in my opinion it is, because they are beautiful, but lifeless. Beautiful shells. Not individuals. And that, for players that have enough of building, kills the long-term aspect of the game and will sooner or later kill Planet Zoo. I don’t want that! I want this game to stay and shine. So I try to help by giving ideas on what can be improved about the animals. Feel free to add your opinion in the comments as well.

• The animals lack variations. Every lion, every tiger is the same. Yes, they differ in size. But besides that, every tiger can easily replaced by another. What we need is difference in behaviour. Let one tiger me more playful, one less interested in breeding, one more aggressive. One more interested in enrichment, the other more lazy. Let one tiger need more different toys, the other just playing with his favourite. And please let there be different fur shades. Ideal, this could passed down to the offspring via a genetic system.
• Let the animals react more emotionally. I had a new gorilla female once adding to an existing group. When I put her in a habitat – nothing happened. In real life, every group member would check her out, interact with her in different ways. Depending on personality sometimes intimidating, sometimes friendly. New animals can react shy or like an extrovert. Whatever it is: Let something happen! At the moment, animals only react interesting and different, when there welfare is low. Whenever you meet their requirements, they start to get boring and life less. And that is also, because they only interact with themselves or with enrichment items, but very, very rarely with other animals or the guests. Which brings me to point three:
• Let them react to guests. Let them scare guests, when they have a naughty or aggressive personality by roaring a lot or jump against the barrier. Let naughty lemurs in walk-in habitats be pocket thefts. Or let aggressive lemurs bite them. This could lead to the zoo paying a compensation to the injured guest.
• Let the animals be like persons. Not easily be replaced. Maybe the new ice bear baby gets very famous with the guests. They ask for merchandise for this animal, buy annual tickets to see them more often, mourn for them when they die.

Fazit / Summary
In short: Give animals character, please. Make them the star of this game. Let this be a zoo simulation, not a building simulator. Individualism in animals could be a challenge for the player. Maybe we have to change our breeding plans, because two individuals won’t get along. Maybe we need to change the habitat, because the shy individual in the lion pride needs more places to hide. Maybe the one Mandrill gets bullied in his current group but can shine in a new one.




I am not a programmer and don’t know what is possible to implement at all or at this stage the animals are in now. But I know that something has to be done. And I know if this game gets polished a little more and the animals get more interesting, this game can become a cash cow. And in the end, that’s what’s important for a company as well.



That said: Thanks to everyone who read all this. I am so looking forward to a lively discussion and your ideas on what could improve the animals.

You are so right!!! This is waht I need so much too. I think that PZ is a Building Simulation not a Zoo Simulation...Thats so dissappointing....