Why Turrets are Hot Garbage - Fixed v Gimbaled v Turreted (Video)

Exigeous

Exigeous
First let's remember, while this is a subjective topic I've tried to break it down in the most objective way possible to demonstrate the significant disadvantages of using turrets, especially unengineered. If you just enjoy them for some reason my primary goal was to ensure you understand those significant negatives in the hopes that you'll give gimbaled a try. As I say in the video it's not about "gettin' gud" as the vast majority of pilots will be able to master gimbaled weapons easily and even fixed when using hit scan (such as lasers & railguns).

Oh, and just to be clear about my little joke about using them if you're disabled. I know Jerry rather well and ran the joke by him first, just to make sure I wasn't offensive as I do take that rather seriously. He thought it was great and all in good fun so remember, I'm in no way disparaging the disabled, just poking fun at turrets in general.

Source: https://youtu.be/lmEmKAGYSwY


~Exigeous
 

Arry

Arry
I use turrets a lot. Had 4 pulses on my FDL. Now I have 2 plus a pair of Packhounds.

Cobra exclusive, I have turreted 3 beams. I can run away (if 304ms can be considered running) and strip my chasers shields, behind me.

The thing is with hit points, is you have to be able to hit, in the first place. So fixed weapons offer twice the damage per second, as say turrets do and you keep missing, you are doing no damage. Turrets can be made fixed, at any time required, such as against chaff etc.. Turrets do require a modified ship movement technique. Sudden movements, can take them off target and then they spend ages, playing catch-up, but if you use smooth movements, they can keep tracking the target.

I look at it as a sort of time thing. It basically takes me twice as long to kill a ship with gimbles, when compared with using turrets.
 
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Dragsham

Dragsham
Op is right turrets are a bad option unless your using em in small hardpoints with scramble spectrum or corrosive etc.
But turrets do shine with other uses. In a corvette for example on the small hardpoints they act as a clear indicator of where the enemy your shooting at is...handy.
Also mining turrets shine too.
Lastly the 3rd fire button quandry. We don't have one and on an all PA or rails fdl this is a problem.
Some end up putting a large turret in a huge slot to free up the alt button to fire 2 of the weps on one side and main fire on other side... 3rd fire would be the huge gimballed or fixed wep...but we don't have a third fire button.
I blame convergence hehe.
Turrets have their uses but tactically...not for dps
 

Arry

Arry
Dragsham said:
Op is right turrets are a bad option unless your using em in small hardpoints with scramble spectrum or corrosive etc.
But turrets do shine with other uses. In a corvette for example on the small hardpoints they act as a clear indicator of where the enemy your shooting at is...handy.
Also mining turrets shine too.
Lastly the 3rd fire button quandry. We don't have one and on an all PA or rails fdl this is a problem.
Some end up putting a large turret in a huge slot to free up the alt button to fire 2 of the weps on one side and main fire on other side... 3rd fire would be the huge gimballed or fixed wep...but we don't have a third fire button.
I blame convergence hehe.
Turrets have their uses but tactically...not for dps
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I use keyboard exclusively. You can have as many fire groups, as you wish, so I have about 5 on my FDL. Making many different firing combinations, with just two fire buttons.
 

Dragsham

Dragsham
Yeah tried that in VR on a hotas...not so easy to seamlessly swap fire groups especially in PvP but most pvpers use key/mouse so I'm in the stone age hehe
 

Arry

Arry
Exigeous said:
You're seriously running turrets on a FDL and Cobra? Wow, now I've seen it all. You're really having problems with time on target with gimbals in two of the most maneuverable ships in the game? Really?
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Hay Top Gun, this is your thread, so I will be nice. Over the last year, I have played about 4 times. It is a game, not a contest of egos. I'll play the way that makes me feel happy. Turrets 'are' an option. They are not a cheat, although some 'hard core wannabe top guns', might think so. Enjoy your game, the way you wish too, as so will I.

Yes I know that there is a special place, in Elite hell for me, just for thinking turrets and FDL, in the same sentence.
 

Tifu

Tifu
Turrets make sense on the big ships with all their blind spots, molasses maneuverability and carrying all those large hard points.

And they're basically defensive weapons, better with experimental effects like scramble.
 

Imo

Imo
turrets were good in ED 2.2 for a short time but have been nerfed again in ED 2.3. turrets have the advantage that when players use target lock break effects, your turrets on auto fire will still continue fire on agression targets!
 

Old Duck

Old Duck
Exigeous said:
You're seriously running turrets on a FDL and Cobra? Wow, now I've seen it all. You're really having problems with time on target with gimbals in two of the most maneuverable ships in the game? Really?
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I run turrets on my Mamba (except the size 4 HP). 🤷

It has nothing to do with "ability" to keep the nose always on target, but rather the flexibility in using more advanced and fun flight patterns. An engineered turret has more DPS than an unengineered fixed weapon. As for engineered fixed weapons, I could mock you for your "easy mode" overpowered DPS. Now if you're using unengineered fixed weapons that require some skill (ie - not frags), then maybe you can brag a little.
 

Arry

Arry
Old Duck said:
I run turrets on my Mamba (except the size 4 HP). 🤷

It has nothing to do with "ability" to keep the nose always on target, but rather the flexibility in using more advanced and fun flight patterns. An engineered turret has more DPS than an unengineered fixed weapon. As for engineered fixed weapons, I could mock you for your "easy mode" overpowered DPS. Now if you're using unengineered fixed weapons that require some skill (ie - not frags), then maybe you can brag a little.
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They are not bragging, they are mocking.
 

Old Duck

Old Duck
Arry said:
They are not bragging, they are mocking.
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Bragging and mocking are two sides of the same coin. Usually when a person says, "You're not cool" it's to imply that "I (the mocker) AM cool" and vice-versa.

And yes, I am very very cool for using turrets on my Mamba :p
 

Northpin

Northpin
I kinda don't like the non-Grey approach.

Turrets are fine.
And as with everything in ED, everything has advantages and disadvantages and there is no perfect universal answer

Turrets have lower power usage, allow one to fly evasive while still having time-on-target, they are better than gimballed when target is farther than 2.5-3km km (no wobble)
and not at last, while they are as vulnerable to chaff as gimbaled, they can also be converted to fixed.
Fire at will is also an... rather interesting... option for turrets that is missing from gimbaled - iirc i heard they can track and fire on otherwise non-targetable ships like silent runners
A Cutter with a Huge MC and rest efficient turret beams is still a decent PVE option.
And so is a T-10 turret boat.


Obviously all that is valid for laser turrets, but other weapon types still have their usage in turret form IF you keep in mind that they will commence fire at lower ranges.
After all, this is not a really bad thing - you dont want your MC/Cannon turrets to waste ammo by firing at targets that they cannot reliably hit because they're 3-4 km away
 

Navigare Necesse Est

Navigare Necesse Est
I only ever used turrets on the Python. Initially I used a lot gimbals (ToT) but since the NPC were buffed so hard that even fixed vanilla feel like utter pea-shooters they aren't worth the money. Python turrets were still OK against small ships, the only encounters I wouldn't run from but the combat ships are meant to tackle anything - and for that gimbals dont cut it. And turrets even less.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Frequently use turrets, but you've got to choose the right ones for what you are wanting to do, and its mainly for utility. I rarely go above size 1 turrets though, due to the slow tracking on larger ones.

However, turret boats were my goto for combat zones until FD made the ships in them into bullet sponges.

 

Arry

Arry
Northpin said:
I kinda don't like the non-Grey approach.

Turrets are fine.
And as with everything in ED, everything has advantages and disadvantages and there is no perfect universal answer

Turrets have lower power usage, allow one to fly evasive while still having time-on-target, they are better than gimballed when target is farther than 2.5-3km km (no wobble)
and not at last, while they are as vulnerable to chaff as gimbaled, they can also be converted to fixed.
Fire at will is also an... rather interesting... option for turrets that is missing from gimbaled - iirc i heard they can track and fire on otherwise non-targetable ships like silent runners
A Cutter with a Huge MC and rest efficient turret beams is still a decent PVE option.
And so is a T-10 turret boat.


Obviously all that is valid for laser turrets, but other weapon types still have their usage in turret form IF you keep in mind that they will commence fire at lower ranges.
After all, this is not a really bad thing - you dont want your MC/Cannon turrets to waste ammo by firing at targets that they cannot reliably hit because they're 3-4 km away
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I have tried using turreted limited ammo weapons and as you say. All of the ammo is gone in the blink of an eye. So I will stick to beams and pulses. Beams if I have the power, the Cobra IV will run two turreted beams all day and the heat, is not really a major issue. At the same time, a couple of turreted beams on a FDL, will drain the power and over heat the ship in no time. So I use pulses and again, they will run all day.

I have yet to visit an engineer.
 

Deleted member 192138

D
I run them on my T10 when I want to go make a cup of tea, put my feet up, see the great outdoors or literally anything other than playing the game.
 

Dragsham

Dragsham
My python is just a miner specialist now..No guns.
It's been replaced by a fully engineered krait ll with SLF. A mission runner with a full compliment of multicannons all gimballed & turreted. Same with my hauler the cutter. Mixed bunch of weps left over from experiments.
The only ships I have that are pvp/pve capable are the vette (pve) and fdl (pvp/pve).
Fdl is on all short range rails. With a nasty huge gimballed long range beam.
The vette is x5 beams all over charged thermal vent. And x2 huge rapid fire multicannons. Corrosive/oversized.
The vette clears a cz in 20 minutes solo not a scratch. SLF is a great help.
But I'm out in the black now far from combat.....lonely! But hunting for more triples and doubles !!
o7 all
 
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