Why Turrets are Hot Garbage - Fixed v Gimbaled v Turreted (Video)

[Deleted member 192138]

Not all technological changes are necessarily upgrades. Over-engineered solutions can be worse rather than better. Generally these don't see the light of day because things that are bad aren't financially viable. Gameplay in a virtual economy without meaningful challenge and loss don't present the same obstacles, challenges and repercussion.

Turrets track slowly, are less accurate and do less damage. Once they're firing you have less control about what they're doing and how, so they can continue draining your capacitor while they're firing shots that miss and you'll barely know because the reticule isn't in front of you to see.

Gimbals and, even more so, fixed weapons give you direct control. Time on target to achieve sustained damage is something you can practice and develop. You can learn about finding optimal speeds for manoeuvrability, you can learn how to position yourself better to get more time on target with different types of weapons against different types of targets, you can learn flight assist off to increase rotation speed and directional thrust potential - further improving agility, manoeuvrability and positioning.

You then get the advantages of significantly improved damage output and accuracy.

A turret will always aim like a turret. If you always use turrets, you don't give yourself the opportunity to grow. Because of the way the game is balanced and the AI is as weak as it is, there's certainly no reason to push yourself if all you want to do is space truck in solo. But that doesn't mean that the Cutter turret boat that minces competent NPC Cobras is a pinnacle achievement of combat prowess. It means the game will never push you to improve if you don't want want to push yourself.

(p.s. a pistol is a fixed aim weapon)

 

[SergMx]

Not all technological changes are necessarily upgrades. Over-engineered solutions can be worse rather than better. Generally these don't see the light of day because things that are bad aren't financially viable. Gameplay in a virtual economy without meaningful challenge and loss don't present the same obstacles, challenges and repercussion.

Turrets track slowly, are less accurate and do less damage. Once they're firing you have less control about what they're doing and how, so they can continue draining your capacitor while they're firing shots that miss and you'll barely know because the reticule isn't in front of you to see.

Gimbals and, even more so, fixed weapons give you direct control. Time on target to achieve sustained damage is something you can practice and develop. You can learn about finding optimal speeds for manoeuvrability, you can learn how to position yourself better to get more time on target with different types of weapons against different types of targets, you can learn flight assist off to increase rotation speed and directional thrust potential - further improving agility, manoeuvrability and positioning.

You then get the advantages of significantly improved damage output and accuracy.

A turret will always aim like a turret. If you always use turrets, you don't give yourself the opportunity to grow. Because of the way the game is balanced and the AI is as weak as it is, there's certainly no reason to push yourself if all you want to do is space truck in solo. But that doesn't mean that the Cutter turret boat that minces competent NPC Cobras is a pinnacle achievement of combat prowess. It means the game will never push you to improve if you don't want want to push yourself.

(p.s. a pistol is a fixed aim weapon)

In your reverse tactics is perfection ?

I do not claim to be correct, but personally for me to fail Hydra on the T10 is a skill in contrast to the murder of 10 Targoids on the ASP at once at the expense of cool orbiting.

I think YOU have not understood my example. Good luck shooting a pistol at a tank !

 

[Deleted member 192138]

Can you rephrase? I'm not sure what you're saying about the Hydra.

In your reverse tactics is perfection ?

Tactics are part of the knowledge, skills and experience that can be developed and improved upon to continue developing, growing and getting better to meet greater challenges. Perfection is a goal, not a concrete achievable object.

 

[Screemonster]

A tractor is not "better" or "worse" than a sports car. They're different machines for different jobs.

I run a turreted rapid-fire frag on the belly of my corvette since the hardpoint is notoriously badly placed for anything else. Being turreted, it can fire faster than I can hammer the button. Likewise, I have an emissive pulse in one of the smalls. It's not there to deal DPS, it's there to apply the effect - a small pulse laser is going to do piddling damage whether it's fixed, gimballed or turreted, so I might as well put the turret on and get the better fire arc and massively reduced distro draw.

Using them as your main weapons isn't the best idea but using them to supplement your loadout is fine.

 

[SergMx]

Can you rephrase? I'm not sure what you're saying about the Hydra.

Hydra, Targoid interceptor.

Tactics are part of the knowledge, skills and experience that can be developed and improved upon to continue developing, growing and getting better to meet greater challenges. Perfection is a goal, not a concrete achievable object.

All right ! Perfect tactics you become a commander and no longer shoot your own gun and give commands to others !

 

[Deleted member 192138]

A tractor is not "better" or "worse" than a sports car. They're different machines for different jobs.

I run a turreted rapid-fire frag on the belly of my corvette since the hardpoint is notoriously badly placed for anything else. Being turreted, it can fire faster than I can hammer the button. Likewise, I have an emissive pulse in one of the smalls. It's not there to deal DPS, it's there to apply the effect - a small pulse laser is going to do piddling damage whether it's fixed, gimballed or turreted, so I might as well put the turret on and get the better fire arc and massively reduced distro draw.

Using them as your main weapons isn't the best idea but using them to supplement your loadout is fine.

Utility turrets can be useful in certain scenarios and builds, sure. I wouldn't say "never use any turret", but they're very weak if part or all of your primary DPS.

All right ! Perfect tactics you become a commander and no longer shoot your own gun and give commands to others !

A commander that no longer flies themselves isn't relevant to what weapons can be most effective to fit and use. Because to disconnect totally from active engagement in combat isn't the goal of fighting. That skill would be for running away, where weapons are not hugely relevant.

Hydra, Targoid interceptor.

I know what a Hydra is. This sentence doesn't make sense:

I do not claim to be correct, but personally for me to fail Hydra on the T10 is a skill in contrast to the murder of 10 Targoids on the ASP at once at the expense of cool orbiting.

 

[SergMx]

Someone grows up to be a general and for someone the role of a soldier at the top of his career.

 

[Northpin]

It's very hard to learn and improve if you're always crutching on tools that do the work for you. Why develop a more dynamic and responsive flying style to get the benefit of weapons you're not practising with?

Because it is one way to progress. The slower one, in which one learns to fly, then fly more or less evasive, then adds weapons in the mix. Then eventually might swap the turrets for gimbals and at some time for fixed.
The other way is to force oneself in a rush for fixed weapons and fa-off and record little to no progress, then leave the game in frustration - instead of taking it slower and not skipping steps and enjoying the game in the meantime.

 

[Deleted member 192138]

taking it slower and not skipping steps

There is no essential progression path that requires the use of turrets for primary DPS

 

[Northpin]

There is no essential progression path that requires the use of turrets for primary DPS

Well, than either you're one of those very rare commanders that are natural born FAOff/Fixed wizards or you forgot your beginnings

Most people are struggling to pilot their ships in the beginning and turrets as primary damage take a burden off their shoulders.
And some never get past turrets as main dps. Simply because combat is not on everyone's taste.

 

[Deleted member 192138]

I used gimbals in my beginnings.

 

[Northpin]

I used gimbals in my beginnings.

Me too, until i got my mildly engineered Cutter in a crap armed trader (6c bi-weaves) outfit almost wasted by a wing of 3 DBX/DBS in haz res.
Swapping from gimbals to beam turrets and a huge mc solved my problem with small ships while flying that Cutter during the Cutter honeymoon period.

 

[Arry]

I used gimbals in my beginnings.

I used gimbles, in my beginnings as well. Then I could afford turrets and found that I could kill things, much, much quicker.

This is game, not a task. This is meant to be fun, not a career.

 

[SergMx]

There is no essential progression path that requires the use of turrets for primary DPS

Your car automatic ? Do you pump your tires with a hand pump ?
DPS ha. You will take a T10 with a fixed gun I will have turrets. Who will kill the Scouts faster ?

 

[Deleted member 192138]

Don't take a T10 because they're bad.

 

[SergMx]

Don't take a T10 because they're bad.

There are no bad ships. You just need to understand the mechanics of the game and use the weapons that are more suitable.

 

[[VR] Enexemander]

Your car automatic ? Do you pump your tires with a hand pump ?
DPS ha. You will take a T10 with a fixed gun I will have turrets. Who will kill the Scouts faster ?

The person who takes fixed on the weapons with decent convergence and gimbals on the rest will blow your turret boat out of the water. It won't even be close. That's kind of the point of the video.

You can have your opinion, and that's fine. But the math doesn't lie.

 

[SergMx]

The person who takes fixed on the weapons with decent convergence and gimbals on the rest will blow your turret boat out of the water. It won't even be close. That's kind of the point of the video.

You can have your opinion, and that's fine. But the math doesn't lie.

I agree. Since the game has no balance. I've mentioned above that the turret weapon is 16 times more expensive in fact, even worse.

 

[Deleted member 192138]

There are no bad ships. You just need to understand the mechanics of the game and use the weapons that are more suitable.

Okay, I'll fight your turret T10 in my fixed Corvette and we'll see how that works out.

Turret T10 is fine in PvE not because it's good but because the bar is so low.

 

[Zieman]

Okay, I'll fight your turret T10 in my fixed Corvette and we'll see how that works out.

Make the fight more balanced: turret T10 vs. fixed T10.