Will ED be too safe

stevesideas

stevesideas
After listening to interviews with DB and reading the forums I'm a bit concerned that the measures taken to instance griefers away from others will take the danger and surprise and frustration out of the game. I personally believe that you feel a greater sense of reward through toil and hardship. If things are easy then then what is the point. It doesn't make you strive to do better next time.

I for one imagine a scene where a griefer is known to be killing in a particular region. A group of players decides to ambush him by having one person in the group bait him to jump through his supercruise bubble...to emerge into space where the baiter's friends are ready to ambush. This would teach him/her a lesson but also be a reward and a very real element to the game of working as a team.

What are your thoughts on this ?
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Robert Maynard
stevesideas said:
After listening to interviews with DB and reading the forums I'm a bit concerned that the measures taken to instance griefers away from others will take the danger and surprise and frustration out of the game. I personally believe that you feel a greater sense of reward through toil and hardship. If things are easy then then what is the point. It doesn't make you strive to do better next time.
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Don't worry too much - they will be instanced with each other - loads of scope for exciting play!
 

ParaB

ParaB
stevesideas said:
What are your thoughts on this ?
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People should be able to enjoy the game as they want. If they want PvP: fine. If they don't want PvP: fine.

I personally enjoy the tension of a PvP environment but can also understand the players who want to play more relaxed without the need to constantly watch their backs.
 

Saxxon

Saxxon
stevesideas said:
After listening to interviews with DB and reading the forums I'm a bit concerned that the measures taken to instance griefers away from others will take the danger and surprise and frustration out of the game. I personally believe that you feel a greater sense of reward through toil and hardship. If things are easy then then what is the point. It doesn't make you strive to do better next time.

I for one imagine a scene where a griefer is known to be killing in a particular region. A group of players decides to ambush him by having one person in the group bait him to jump through his supercruise bubble...to emerge into space where the baiter's friends are ready to ambush. This would teach him/her a lesson but also be a reward and a very real element to the game of working as a team.

What are your thoughts on this ?
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I would love to participate in this beta but the theme of your title sums it up for me.

Deep concerns about the p2p networking component of the game.

Deep concerns about the "groups" mechanism and exploits.

Until I see concrete examples of these systems once finalized and the myriad of cause and effect issues that will come about I must remain a pessimistic spectator.

A certain group of supporters seem to think that most will play in the original spirit of elite and those that don't or this group is not comfortable with will be tidily tucked away in the closet and forgotten about.

It seems that someone is grossly underestimating the ingenuity of modern min/max types in the gamer culture and they are not going to play happy, happy, joy, joy like some of the people seem to think here.
 
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stevesideas

stevesideas
Exmortis said:
I have to disagree. If a game never frustrates you it is not challenging enough. I think what you probably mean is constant frustration and that I would agree with.
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Yes, definitely not constant...that just puts me off playing. A better word would probably be challenging.
 

stevesideas

stevesideas
ParaB said:
People should be able to enjoy the game as they want. If they want PvP: fine. If they don't want PvP: fine.

I personally enjoy the tension of a PvP environment but can also understand the players who want to play more relaxed without the need to constantly watch their backs.
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For sure but it seems to me that FD will be making that decision for us. Griefers will not be able to instance with someone who is trading.
 

KING5TON

KING5TON
Suck it and see that's my motto.
Elite isn't other games. Elite MP will be different than other MP games.
At the very least try something before you pass judgement because otherwise you're just basing your opinion on preconceived notions that might not actually reflect reality.
If you try the full game MP and find you hate it you can always switch to single player online. Nothing lost.
If you decide that you don't like E: D mp without actually giving it one chance you could be missing out on something that you might truly cherish.

In my opinion based on the small slice of game play that is the PB the MP will be awesome and add to and not detract from the game.
 

KING5TON

KING5TON
stevesideas said:
For sure but it seems to me that FD will be making that decision for us. Griefers will not be able to instance with someone who is trading.
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Griefers are like the bogeyman at the minute. It's like you can't move for griefers.
I think that in the full game they will be a minority if none existent.
I've not seen any so far in the Beta.

If a certain group of players manage to find exploits in the game and they use this to ruin people's games is one thing and that's up to us to spot such exploits in testing and for FD to code them out. Cheats are the same thing really, it's up to FD to make a cheat free game and close down any cheats that pop up.

I believe a lot of people say "griefers" and instead they mean "People that will shoot me when I don't want them to shoot me". There will be NPC that will shoot you when you don't want to be shot, how's it any different? Skill level?
 

Maruun

Maruun
Exmortis said:
I have to disagree. If a game never frustrates you it is not challenging enough. I think what you probably mean is constant frustration and that I would agree with.
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Tell that those that try to get any credits and being frustrated by griefers that have a better ship better equipment.

PvP is fun for everybody aslong both are equal.

MMO-Styled PvP is no PvP its a grieferhaven.

The moment PvP goes into the "frustrate others" its bad and everyone should have a choice to enter or not enter it, so i welcome what ED wants to archiev.

PvGriefers is getting even worse in games were you can lose stuff and need to work again for the stuff. We have enough examples for that behaviour in gaming.

EVE Online: you think its fun hitting a "Content" wall because there are enough player that can take the cost of a loss, but those they kill cant take it and starting over again.
Ultima Online: Same thing PvGrievers were so hard that they lost player because of them. Sure those on the other side of the stick were happy but the victims not and left (Older times), they were even forced to make a PvE World (Trammel) and PvP World(Felucca) destinction.

DayZ: nice game, but gets pretty fast to the "bored player shooting new players"

WarZ: (or how the hell its now called) same stuff.

Rust: same thing stronger bully weaker because of fear of loss
It will become a bully game Strong vs Weak, because the strong fear to lose there status when they try to attack equal players.


ITs really funny if you think about it, how games show the "ugly" side of Humannature. Survival is everything, even in a game, if you fear it, kill it.
 

Seonid

Seonid
Oh look, this thread again. Looking forward to the "Is Elite too dangerous?" thread later this evening. No, really, I am. Honest.
 

Colonel Kenney

Colonel Kenney
Nomadski said:
Danger = Good

Frustration = Bad
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What he said...

Frustration leads to people quitting. We want lots of people playing interacting and getting along in a fair way. If I enter an anarchy system I do so at my own risk.

There will be PLENTY of "dangerous" places to be in this game. Right now there are no "safe" ones. That is the problem.
 

KING5TON

KING5TON
Colonel Kenney said:
What he said...

Frustration leads to people quitting. We want lots of people playing interacting and getting along in a fair way. If I enter an anarchy system I do so at my own risk.

There will be PLENTY of "dangerous" places to be in this game. Right now there are no "safe" ones. That is the problem.
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I wouldn't say it's much of a problem in the Beta. I've encountered one pirate that shot at me, managed to jump away without damage. The fed distress call is fair game on hollow red triangles.
 

tooterfish

T
Colonel Kenney said:
There will be PLENTY of "dangerous" places to be in this game. Right now there are no "safe" ones. That is the problem.
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I think judging the tone of the game based on what's in right now is very disingenuous.

The crime and punishment system isn't implemented at all, and station defences are only rudimentary. Asking for special protections and new game modes (not to mention labelling legitimate players as griefers) is extremely premature.

Lets wait and see how the whole package works before we declare Elite the next EvE Online, and wail about griefers ruining our game before it's even come out.
 
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Nomadski

Nomadski
I think these threads going on is just a mish mash of different kinds of players converging with entirely different definitions of what constitutes different game styles.
 
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