Will I ever be able to get out of my ship?

[askavir]

Because there's a cash shop tied to it where you can buy stuff.

On the other hand, why would I ever buy junk for my character with real money if nobody can ever see it, including (and most especially) myself?..

At least ship paintjobs I can still seem them briefly on the outfitting screen.

 

[Besensec]

...but the actual desire for the feature and the way it was implemented seems to have been a complete miss. We told them for weeks and weeks we wanted AI multicrew. Many people stated they had no interest in MP multicrew and it was likely to go unused.

Multicrew, the way it was originally described during the live stream for the launch of S2 in 2015, was a lot better and it would have caught much more attention from the players than what we had right now. But the real meat of Multicrew was with Space Legs. There are a few videos with the usual suspects talking about how it would work, and even the potential to expand it beyond that. They talked about many different tasks and ways to interact with the ships and with the crew. It sounded like they had it all figured out. So as such, there was no other possibility but to become really popular, it was "real" interaction with other players with proper cooperative and deep gameplay.

Moreover, the fact that MC came with character creation is what made many people believe Space Legs were coming right after that. But in the end, we ended up with a MC that does close to nothing and a character creator that does even less, only a dead alley not leading anywhere. By not making Space Legs really a part of the plan, now they have to figure out how to merge a MC that was done without SL in mind, and how to merge it without generating big unbalances between iterations of the game with and without it.

Funnily enough, those three things you mention: Powerplay, CQC, Multicrew were not mentioned for the LEP (unless I have missed something). I know David Braben wanted the Powerplay, so it was introduced. But CQC came out of the blue, and Multicrew was, as you say, not envisaged by us without NPC crew.

Multicrew was envisioned along with Space Legs. They were tied together, and it used to be really, really cool. I believe they talk a bit about it in this video. And note how much of it is devoted to SL

 

[acg515]

I'm only down with space legs if I can turn the temperature in my Asp to 90 degrees F and walk around naked.

 

[DanGriswold]

I hope you guys do it. Because when i watch star citizen doing it i drop my jaws thinking how nice it be able to do it in Elite. I could get a mission from npc instead of the BB board. Just to let you know i pay extra for you guys to get it done because i think this will add more depth to the game.

Yeah, there's a lot on Star Citizen that makes me drool, too (walking around, atmospheric worlds, an over all better visual design, etc.); but guess what? SC is still in the Alpha stage of development after how many months/years? Elite, on the other hand, as been in our hands since 2014 and are releasing major updates several times a year. Star Citizen's reach has strayed quite far from its grasp and I think that the last thing this community wants is for Frontier to fall into the same rut.

 

[Lightspeed]

Multicrew, the way it was originally described during the live stream for the launch of S2 in 2015, was a lot better and it would have caught much more attention from the players than what we had right now. But the real meat of Multicrew was with Space Legs. There are a few videos with the usual suspects talking about how it would work, and even the potential to expand it beyond that. They talked about many different tasks and ways to interact with the ships and with the crew. It sounded like they had it all figured out. So as such, there was no other possibility but to become really popular, it was "real" interaction with other players with proper cooperative and deep gameplay.

Moreover, the fact that MC came with character creation is what made many people believe Space Legs were coming right after that. But in the end, we ended up with a MC that does close to nothing and a character creator that does even less, only a dead alley not leading anywhere. By not making Space Legs really a part of the plan, now they have to figure out how to merge a MC that was done without SL in mind, and how to merge it without generating big unbalances between iterations of the game with and without it.


Multicrew was envisioned along with Space Legs. They were tied together, and it used to be really, really cool. I believe they talk a bit about it in this video. And note how much of it is devoted to SL

I too am out of rep !

 

[Besensec]

Yeah, there's a lot on Star Citizen that makes me drool, too (walking around, atmospheric worlds, an over all better visual design, etc.); but guess what? SC is still in the Alpha stage of development after how many months/years? Elite, on the other hand, as been in our hands since 2014 and are releasing major updates several times a year. Star Citizen's reach has strayed quite far from its grasp and I think that the last thing this community wants is for Frontier to fall into the same rut.

FD went in the absolute opposite direction, they strayed way below from theirs.

 

[Lightspeed]

Multicrew, the way it was originally described during the live stream for the launch of S2 in 2015, was a lot better and it would have caught much more attention from the players than what we had right now. But the real meat of Multicrew was with Space Legs. There are a few videos with the usual suspects talking about how it would work, and even the potential to expand it beyond that. They talked about many different tasks and ways to interact with the ships and with the crew. It sounded like they had it all figured out. So as such, there was no other possibility but to become really popular, it was "real" interaction with other players with proper cooperative and deep gameplay.

Moreover, the fact that MC came with character creation is what made many people believe Space Legs were coming right after that. But in the end, we ended up with a MC that does close to nothing and a character creator that does even less, only a dead alley not leading anywhere. By not making Space Legs really a part of the plan, now they have to figure out how to merge a MC that was done without SL in mind, and how to merge it without generating big unbalances between iterations of the game with and without it.


Multicrew was envisioned along with Space Legs. They were tied together, and it used to be really, really cool. I believe they talk a bit about it in this video. And note how much of it is devoted to SL

Good call on the video .... this thread is becoming a good reference point for future discussion with FD about legs.

 

[Enride]

Jeez do I really need to remind you about many quotes from David, kickstarter mentioning legs? And this :



Racing games or flight sims never implied walking, David Braben on the other hand did multiple times. This should be posted in bold letter somewhere or pinned at the top of the forum.

No you dont need to remind me, I know its been mentioned and talked about since the game was first announced. Thats not my point.

We have a game that is mainly and mostely about flying spaceships, and everything about the game revolves around that. Implementing a small part of the game to move around in first person would of course be a nice little gimmicky feature but its completely unneccesary...And yet people are craving it as if it would somehow reinvent the game completely...It wont.

So again, the game is about flying. Why care about implementing anything else when there is still so much more they can do with the actual flying. "Spacelegs" will likely only be a halfhearted implementation at the cost of not evolving other parts of the game further.

 

[Space Frehley]

Implementing a small part of the game to move around in first person would of course be a nice little gimmicky feature but its completely unneccesary...

There have been multiple threads, including this one, listing many excellent ideas for space legs. I wouldn't say "gimmicky feature" since we have no idea how far ED would take it, if they decided to go down that road. I for one, would like to see.

 

[Besensec]

No you dont need to remind me, I know its been mentioned and talked about since the game was first announced. Thats not my point.

We have a game that is mainly and mostely about flying spaceships, and everything about the game revolves around that. Implementing a small part of the game to move around in first person would of course be a nice little gimmicky feature but its completely unneccesary...And yet people are craving it as if it would somehow reinvent the game completely...It wont.

So again, the game is about flying. Why care about implementing anything else when there is still so much more they can do with the actual flying. "Spacelegs" will likely only be a halfhearted implementation at the cost of not evolving other parts of the game further.

Then, on one hand, you disagree with the vision the developers had, but on the other, you seem to agree with the vision they have now (except maybe by the fact that the game is specifically a "space combat sim" rather than generally a "space sim"). In any case, SL was not meant to be a "gimmicky feature", but that is what it would be if they try to do it now. So, in the end, they are morally committed to do it, but the reasonable thing to do -all things considered- is not to do it. [noob]

 

[Vasea Azure]

No you dont need to remind me, I know its been mentioned and talked about since the game was first announced. Thats not my point.

We have a game that is mainly and mostely about flying spaceships, and everything about the game revolves around that. Implementing a small part of the game to move around in first person would of course be a nice little gimmicky feature but its completely unneccesary...And yet people are craving it as if it would somehow reinvent the game completely...It wont.

So again, the game is about flying. Why care about implementing anything else when there is still so much more they can do with the actual flying. "Spacelegs" will likely only be a halfhearted implementation at the cost of not evolving other parts of the game further.

To me Elite was sold not as a "space ship flight sim" only, but something more. Yes, right now its mostly about flying your ship but hey - SRV/Holo me, its getting ground work for something bigger. Comparing ED in context of adding walking around with racing sim/flight sim (where it indeed would be a gimmick) made me believe that you missed on the fact that devs were planning it from the start as a integral part of the game.
As mentioned and quoted they will not work on SL until other parts of the game are more or less finished so dont worry about shifting development focus. But dont be surprised that ED players unlike racing sim ones will talk about this feature since ED more and more growing outside of the "ship sim" definition. No idea why that would be a bad thing, especially with X4 on the horizon and 5% chance that at least half of SC will see the light of day in 2028

 

[joshismycaptain]

I dont see people have this debate for racing games or flightsims.

We've all walked around an airport.
Many have been to racetracks.
We've been to harbors.
No one has mingled in a star pilot lounge in the far reaches of the galaxy.

THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE!!!!

 

[Enride]

We've all walked around an airport.
Many have been to racetracks.
We've been to harbors.
No one has mingled in a star pilot lounge in the far reaches of the galaxy.

THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE!!!! ��

Most have mingled in a lounge which is pretty much the same no matter where you do it. Give me a spaceship and the ability to travel all over the galaxy and you wont find me mingling in lounges a whole lot

Im not against spacelegs in any way but I just dont get the fascination people have with it, like its essential for the game. Which it isnt.

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

Most have mingled in a lounge which is pretty much the same no matter where you do it. Give me a spaceship and the ability to travel all over the galaxy and you wont find me mingling in lounges a whole lot

Im not against spacelegs in any way but I just dont get the fascination people have with it, like its essential for the game. Which it isnt.

Because those megaships and tourist attractions are just props without them. Imagine being able to EVA into a generation ship and run into an Event Horizon type of scenario, investigating from within. Instead of just scanning a few nodes and listening to/reading logs.

 

[joshismycaptain]

I agree.
Not necessary at all.
But then it's a simulator.
Not an experience.
And if that's all it is, fair enough.
But it could be so much more...

As a comercial airline captain, I can tell you, realistic experiences are way better than simulators.

When you learn to fly, it's about flying.
When you master flying, it's about the world of experience those skills and perks open up for you. We who love planes will always love planes, but again,,, there's so much more than stick and rudder.

Flying is a lifestyle...

 

[Jack Schitt]

Along with the usual borderline trolling and "I don't personally want it so it doesn't matter" posts, there are some very solid arguments in this thread for why EVA won't be a thing in ED. Technical reasons, financial reasons, gameplay reasons. Can't really fault any of them. But none of them can erase the fact that FD took payment in part for features they said would be part of the expanded game.

So as soon as someone from FD can officially announce the cancellation of "exploring your ship and space stations", or the game reaches the end of development and these features haven't appeared, I'll apply for my pro-rata refund and we can all move on. I'm thinking roughly £30 from each of the two LEPs I purchased as part of the £80 KS tier and the Collectors' Edition respectively. Those who paid more for their LEPs may consider higher figures to be appropriate.

Peanuts compared to what I've spent in the store, but then in the store I've always got exactly what was advertised.

 

[Lightspeed]

Along with the usual borderline trolling and "I don't personally want it so it doesn't matter" posts, there are some very solid arguments in this thread for why EVA won't be a thing in ED. Technical reasons, financial reasons, gameplay reasons. Can't really fault any of them. But none of them can erase the fact that FD took payment in part for features they said would be part of the expanded game.

So as soon as someone from FD can officially announce the cancellation of "exploring your ship and space stations", or the game reaches the end of development and these features haven't appeared, I'll apply for my pro-rata refund and we can all move on. I'm thinking roughly £30 from each of the two LEPs I purchased as part of the £80 KS tier and the Collectors' Edition respectively. Those who paid more for their LEPs may consider higher figures to be appropriate.

Peanuts compared to what I've spent in the store, but then in the store I've always got exactly what was advertised.

+1, very well said.

 

[Noctover]

That's really the crux of it, right? There's been extensive discussions about space legs all over the forums, and it's a difficult one to answer from our perspective. It's something we really, really want to do.... but if it doesn't add any long-term value, it's a lot of work for something that lacks meaningful gameplay. There was another thread on this that we were taking notes from with regards to the comparison to EVE's version of 'space legs'. Unfortunately that thread was lost as the OP requested his account to be removed and all posts he made to be wiped. Essentially it was a discussion regarding the feature being removed from EVE (if I recall the linked article correctly) due to lack of people using.

It's still something we'd like to do, but the focus after 2.4 will be improvements of core gameplay mechanics. To add this rather heavy feature without meaningful activities around it would be a disservice to you guys, and it's a hell of a lot of work for the dev team. My advice would be to work on the assumption that it'll be a ways off yet, because as has been mentioned many times before: to do it properly would be a whole new game within ED.

I'm in the seriously heavily WANT. infact, FD NEEDS spacelegs demographic. Spacelegs, imho, should have been an early addition but even i, at this stage of development and the positions we are in will agree that your post makes perfect sense.

 

[Jex =TE=]

But isn't that the mental thought processes FD are trying to get us to accept? It's all too hard, so we will improve core game play and have small DLC updates, that way we are never too committed.

We should hold them to their commitment of what they were going to do when they launched the LEP.

This from "To Launch and Beyond with the Lifetime Expansion Pass":

"We have made no secret that our ultimate ambition is to be able to land on the surface of planets, as you were able to in the other Elite sequels Frontier and Frontier: First Encounters.

We want this feature to push the boundaries as we believe we are doing in other areas of Elite: Dangerous already, like space flight, combat, trading, sound, online, visual fidelity etc.

That means rich, varied experiences. Not just landing pads, but rich content on the surfaces, surface vehicles, the ability to stash things there, to explore. Clearly ‘doing it right’ like this will take time, but we have a plan and will get there via a series of meaningful releases.

We believe that each stage will be incredible, and the result truly breathtaking. What you will see on the worlds will be a mix of procedurally generated content, particularly the landscapes, cloudscapes, compositions and so on, mixed with hand-crafted elements.

We also plan to allow you to get up out of your seat and walk around your ship. You can see the level of attention and thought that has already been given to the ship interiors from these ship cockpit views in this video: "

Then comes all the things they were planning to do with legs on planets, already quoted previously.

I think we really need to push hard for this, because unless we do, I am getting the feeling FD will take the path that offers least resistance, rather than the ambitious way that fulfills their promise.



This is the source courtesy of Askavir

Reading that and applying it to the game today just shows it's never going to happen. The best in Trading? Have they even done trading for a couple of hours?

 

[Jex =TE=]

On the other hand, why would I ever buy junk for my character with real money if nobody can ever see it, including (and most especially) myself?..

At least ship paintjobs I can still seem them briefly on the outfitting screen.

You do know there's an external camera now, right? LOL