So it's been several years since Odyssey was released, They said that VR support would be added at a later date back when I bought this DLC, and i am wondering if that's EVER gonna happen, or did they say at some point they weren't gonna do it? (Even though they initially said they WOULD when I gave them my money) This is my favorite VR title, and it's not like we need motion controls or any of that stuff, though it would be nice for on foot FPS. Just having a basic VR viewpoint and head tracking like they had in Horizons would be SOOOOO much better than the craptastic grey void and tiny "screen" you get on foot last time I played this game (I took a break for a couple years and now I'm back). I also can't understand why they gave you such a SMALL "screen" in the void mode in the first place, it's VR, why not blow that screen up to movie theatre size like big screen beta or something? Seems like making that screen bigger, or at least adding an option to let the user decide the size would be very EZ. So like I said, I'm just wondering why this STILL isn't in the game after they said it would be coming at a later date.
Will VR Ever Be Added To Odyssey
- Thread starter PDXXX
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Whilst I am desperate for more complete VR support myself, I have to say that: "not at this time", is a statement carefully constructed to not promise anything. -Any perceived implication that it has a continuation in the form of: "...but will later.", rather than, say: "...may later.", is entirely on the reader, even if the person who said it had deviously been counting on listeners to jump to the more desireable interpretation, with or without intention to ever satisfy it.
The virtual cinema screen is the usual FOV the game runs, when on a monitor, and sized such that the proportions are about world-space correct for the projection in VR (the 1m strut you see, is a similar amount of pixels long from where you stand, to what it would have been had it been an actual VR view), to the point I have had to correct some people who had somehow got into their head that it was in fact a proper VR view, in 3D and all, only with an artificial border tacked over it.
(Who knows; maybe if I closed one eye, stood perfectly still, and thought of the border as an actual window border I was looking through, perhaps there could be some moment where I, too, would have been fooled...)
...so its FOV is kind of "to scale", and fills out almost the entire FOV of most headsets... for all that you can, of course look around you, in VR.
They could conceivably have increased the camera FOV, past the HMD one, and increased the virtual screen dimensions accordingly (incurring the commensurate bit of extra rendering work), for more of a "surround" experience; But without adaptions to the rendering out of the HUD, it would have scaled up right along with resolution increase, and you'd have had to move your head quite a lot to read it, out at the edges of the massive screen...
I, too, would be mollified by a minimum solution such as you describe, and have multiple times expressed willingness to pay extra for one, independently of my having the expansion pass, and on recurring basis, but... I am not holding my breath... I can live with the current stopgap for the moment, but not forever.
The virtual cinema screen is the usual FOV the game runs, when on a monitor, and sized such that the proportions are about world-space correct for the projection in VR (the 1m strut you see, is a similar amount of pixels long from where you stand, to what it would have been had it been an actual VR view), to the point I have had to correct some people who had somehow got into their head that it was in fact a proper VR view, in 3D and all, only with an artificial border tacked over it.
(Who knows; maybe if I closed one eye, stood perfectly still, and thought of the border as an actual window border I was looking through, perhaps there could be some moment where I, too, would have been fooled...)...so its FOV is kind of "to scale", and fills out almost the entire FOV of most headsets... for all that you can, of course look around you, in VR.
They could conceivably have increased the camera FOV, past the HMD one, and increased the virtual screen dimensions accordingly (incurring the commensurate bit of extra rendering work), for more of a "surround" experience; But without adaptions to the rendering out of the HUD, it would have scaled up right along with resolution increase, and you'd have had to move your head quite a lot to read it, out at the edges of the massive screen...
I, too, would be mollified by a minimum solution such as you describe, and have multiple times expressed willingness to pay extra for one, independently of my having the expansion pass, and on recurring basis, but... I am not holding my breath... I can live with the current stopgap for the moment, but not forever.
The statement I believe you’re thinking of is this:
…which, as jojon says above, doesn’t actually say that anything will be done in the future. Later statements from the community team basically say what we’ve got is what we’re getting, and the best we can expect is bug fixes - which are being gradually reduced.
I saw a YouTube video the other week, where it was stated that the only reason ED got VR support was because the guy who added it was a VR enthusiast, and he did all in his own time. As you may have guessed, he left the company before Ody was in development, and FDev never got anyone else in who knew how to add it in to Ody. Apparently this is the only reason VR isn't in Ody, no matter what else FDev like to tell us. So I wouldn't expect anything VR related until, and if, FDev hire a VR developer.
Which they absolutely should, if they really do lack the competence and enthusiasm, posthaste. ...for all that this is one hell of a thing for me to say, just after so many good people have lost their jobs.
As for the original implementor, and Youtube sources (assuming this wasn't of somebody from FDev, past or present), I don't know that I would take the word of anybody who wasn't themselves in any way involved. What... I think it was Braben, once stated (...for all that my recollection of it does not significantly differ from what you write), has passed through so many generations of mouth-to-ear-to-mouth-to-ear, with individuals in the perpetuation chain mutually taking one another for comfirmation, in lieu of first-hand sources, that I'd be hard to convince no unconscious fleshing-the-story-out, or unwarranted certainty, has slipped in over the years...
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David Braben did several interviews at GDC 2015 where he talked about how VR was implemented in less time that it probably would’ve taken to produce a VR business case to a publisher, eg:
Source: https://youtu.be/5NIJ2VVLIxk?t=89
…and in a 2014 interview with Rock Paper Shotgun he’d said:
“Well, even when we shipped Alpha 1, we weren't expecting to support things like Oculus until a lot further down the line. We had it in mind, we'd thought about head-mounted displays, but the Alpha backers said they really wanted it. So we said 'actually it's not that hard to do', did a quick investigation, we showed it worked, and then actually the rest of the work was probably a total of three days' work for one guy. So we got it in there and we did it as a Christmas present to the backers. We did it as an update to a patch for the alpha build.”
…and in a 2014 interview with Rock Paper Shotgun he’d said:
“Well, even when we shipped Alpha 1, we weren't expecting to support things like Oculus until a lot further down the line. We had it in mind, we'd thought about head-mounted displays, but the Alpha backers said they really wanted it. So we said 'actually it's not that hard to do', did a quick investigation, we showed it worked, and then actually the rest of the work was probably a total of three days' work for one guy. So we got it in there and we did it as a Christmas present to the backers. We did it as an update to a patch for the alpha build.”
Sadly, it's statements like these that create the expectation that all Frontier has to do is "flip a switch" and they can play on foot in VR.
The articles I've read regarding the Fallout 4 VR port, plus my experiences in actual "flip a switch" VR ports, and how No Man's Sky implemented seated+motion controller VR in their game, is what makes me think that it'll take much more work to have a good on-foot experience in this game.
Sadly, it seems like I didn't save any of those articles about Fallout 4 VR's development, and these are the ones that came up regarding Fallout 4 VR's development challenges. These are the ones I found with a quick google search:
www.uploadvr.com
www.gamedeveloper.com
edit: Not that I don't want Frontier to do full RoomScale VR for the on foot portions of this game. I'm just realistic enough to realize how much work it would require, and how little gain it would bring to Frontier in the first place. Not to mention that I've got other things higher up on my wish list.
The articles I've read regarding the Fallout 4 VR port, plus my experiences in actual "flip a switch" VR ports, and how No Man's Sky implemented seated+motion controller VR in their game, is what makes me think that it'll take much more work to have a good on-foot experience in this game.
Sadly, it seems like I didn't save any of those articles about Fallout 4 VR's development, and these are the ones that came up regarding Fallout 4 VR's development challenges. These are the ones I found with a quick google search:
Watch This Behind-The-Scenes Look At Fallout 4 VR's Development
Fallout 4 VR is fast-approaching with a slated December 12, 2017 launch on the HTC Vive (reportedly the only platform at launch as it remains to be seen whether or not Rift can play it via Steam VR or not) and it’s bringing the entire, massive world of the
www.uploadvr.com
Q&A: Bethesda opens up about Fallout 4 VR and the plunge into VR game dev
Fallout 4 VR is out today, and here lead producer Andrew Scharf chats with Gamasutra about the ups and downs of making Bethesda's big, sprawling games accessible to players in VR.
edit: Not that I don't want Frontier to do full RoomScale VR for the on foot portions of this game. I'm just realistic enough to realize how much work it would require, and how little gain it would bring to Frontier in the first place. Not to mention that I've got other things higher up on my wish list.
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No, I don't think it was anyone from FDev, but as far as I can remember, he had spoken to people who had worked on ED, to get material for the video. I've had a look over my YT history, but I can't find the one that had the VR info in it. I have watched a LOT of YT videos over the last couple of weeks, and going through every Elite one to find a two minute section on VR would take a very long time unfortunately.
Hopefully when players read/watch those old statements they realise David Braben was talking about Oculus DK2, there were no actual commercial headsets available at the time, and it wasn’t until 2016 that we actually got motion controllers to replace the Xbox pad the CV1 originally shipped with.
If players want to flip a switch to play on-foot VR, they can always press the camera suite button
You've been on this forum almost as long as I have. Do you really think that'll be the case?
I know it's not a solution per se, but just fyi that you can place the camera suite on the head and at least do some exobio/CZ on foot that way.
I'm guessing the FOV could be upped a bit by editing the settings .xml too.
Although i don't play in VR i can fully understand the wish for a proper implementation.
I'm guessing the FOV could be upped a bit by editing the settings .xml too.
Although i don't play in VR i can fully understand the wish for a proper implementation.
Must be true then.
<Reposted from other VR Threads>
Before I start having my rant, let me just say as someone with a Vive XR Elite VR Headset that I'm use for development, I would love there to be on foot VR in Elite. However, I understand why it's not in and probably won't be coming anytime soon, if at all (Heck if fdev want to surprise me go ahead) ;-
I'm sorry that this comes across negative, but I'm just realistic about the prospects. Heck, if they turn around in their livestream and say 'And one more thing, on foot VR is coming in update x', I'd be over the moon. It's just I don't see that happening, especially with fdev's current circumstances.
Before I start having my rant, let me just say as someone with a Vive XR Elite VR Headset that I'm use for development, I would love there to be on foot VR in Elite. However, I understand why it's not in and probably won't be coming anytime soon, if at all (Heck if fdev want to surprise me go ahead) ;-
- On Foot VR is a lot harder to develop than any sit down VR experience. With the sit-down experience, it's a case of mapping the head movement and that's effectively it. I remember DB saying is was an experiment because they found it relatively simple to implement using the Occulus SDK, and were amazed that they'd captured lightning in a bottle. On Foot, you've got player movement, replacement gestures for menu actions, handling weapons (there's a reason Half Life Alex only has single handed weapons!) , interactions with the environments, etc. There's a lot more that needs to be done.
- Cost - With all the extra work that it would entail to put in, you need development staff that specialise in VR development and quite a few of them at that. Half Life Alex had more people working on it than fdev had working on the whole of Odyssey. That's quite expensive talent you've got to buy in or train up.
- The Cobra Engine - again, I'm not familiar with this engine (so I might be talking out of my posterior) , but both the Unreal engine and Unity have VR support built in and because of that, there is a lot of code you don't have to worry about. With any custom engine, you're going to have to code that boilerplate stuff in yourself before you get to the same state, which adds to the cost. Yes that will add VR into the engine, but looking at the rest of Fdev's games, where do you see the Use Case for it? Maybe walking around your theme park or zoo maybe, but that's a vanity item. (Although trying to recapture a lion/velociraptor) in VR might be fantastically scary. Heck can you ride the roller coasters in Planet Coaster? But that's back to a sit down VR Experience. There's a lot of complaint that NMS has on-foot VR and Elite doesn't, again I suspect that's down to the engine of the two respective games.
- User Base - I don't have the exact numbers for ED, but its a small percentage of the player base that have access to VR technology. It certainly wouldn't justify all the above effort to develop it for free. It would feel that the vast amount of Elite players would be subsidising the few that have VR headsets, which is very (and you'll have to excuse the pun) elitist. Would I be OK with a paid for VR update, hell yes, but it would still have to make the company money (you have to remember its the Game Business, not the Game Charity).
I'm sorry that this comes across negative, but I'm just realistic about the prospects. Heck, if they turn around in their livestream and say 'And one more thing, on foot VR is coming in update x', I'd be over the moon. It's just I don't see that happening, especially with fdev's current circumstances.
I will note that the more persistent of common requests are not for the fully-fledged proper implementation treatment, but for the current sub-minimum stop-gap solution to be "evolved" to an actual minimum stop-gap solution; Still sit-down, still same controls, still not allowing you to stray from where your character's neck ends (add any player translation to the existing motion of the character, up until it hits a collider, just as if the motion was with WASD/stick only-- you can't do with only rotation, for comfort reasons - even just looking around confers a shift in position).
Optionally (...not everybody can handle forced locomotion i VR, alas, so keep the old to fall back on...) turning the virtual cinema screen into an actual headtracked stereo view, but leaving everything else essentially as is, is a significantly less daunting prospect, than going to the point where you can pick up every little item by hand and juggle them, and so on, and so on, and would placate a fair few of us, at least one of whom stands ready with money in hand.
...but I must say that even where it comes to the notion of adding a proper, full VR implementation; Yes, it comes with many, many considerations and complications, and a lot of trial-and-error, but all too often if is spoken of as if it would amount to produce an entire new game, with all new assets and everything -- 100%, from the ground up, rather than "completing" the functionality of one that already exists.
Optionally (...not everybody can handle forced locomotion i VR, alas, so keep the old to fall back on...) turning the virtual cinema screen into an actual headtracked stereo view, but leaving everything else essentially as is, is a significantly less daunting prospect, than going to the point where you can pick up every little item by hand and juggle them, and so on, and so on, and would placate a fair few of us, at least one of whom stands ready with money in hand.
...but I must say that even where it comes to the notion of adding a proper, full VR implementation; Yes, it comes with many, many considerations and complications, and a lot of trial-and-error, but all too often if is spoken of as if it would amount to produce an entire new game, with all new assets and everything -- 100%, from the ground up, rather than "completing" the functionality of one that already exists.
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I actually don't know what people use to control the game in VR, but I would assume that they use either your regular old HOTAS/HOSAS, or a game controller. (In fact, I tried ED once in VR because I happen to own a Rift S, and game controller it was.) Rather than, you know, the headset's own handheld controllers.
I don't see why that would need to be changed for on-foot content. I don't think it could change for on-foot content. If you are controlling the ship with your HOTAS/HOSAS or a game controller, you can't possibly be expected to suddenly change to the headset's own controllers. That would be ridiculous. Rather obviously you would still use the joystics/controller.
Thus, I don't see how controls would need to be fine tuned for on-foot VR. They would work just the same as it does in non-VR flat screen. I'm not entirely sure why you are even comparing this to HL:Alyx.
First-person-shooter VR has been pretty much a solved problem for many, many years. The only thing that needs to be done is to give options to the player: Either keep using the current "in-VR 'cinema' display" solution (that's currently in place), for those who can't play FPS games in VR because of motion sickness, or full VR, and for the latter provide your typical settings (especially for camera turning, ie. continuous or stepped, and the angle of the step).
Visually the most fine-tuning that probably would need to be done is for the on-screen-display. The stuff that appears at the edges of your view when on-foot. What would work best in VR? Position, distance from your eyes... Probably would need some tinkering.
This ^ ...my god so much this
I'm not asking for the moon on a stick. I'm not asking for RoomScale VR. I'm not even asking for full FOV. I'm just asking for a stereoscopic view
Can they not just throw us VR users a bone here!?
Another thing to keep in mind here, is that FDEV (in the early days of the web) used VR as a promotional fact. "Made for VR" was a big thing on the website, and on meetups/conferences they had VR setups for people to try.
So no matter how hard it might be for Odyssey to implement VR - they did a 180 on promotional and internal stance to VR at some point. Most likely BECAUSE it became hard and inconvenient. Just like consoles for Odyssey... although that was a harsher pill to swallow even for FD.
Finally its important to mention that FD does not view ED in any of its incarnations as a live service game. I have not ever heard them use those words.
So no matter how hard it might be for Odyssey to implement VR - they did a 180 on promotional and internal stance to VR at some point. Most likely BECAUSE it became hard and inconvenient. Just like consoles for Odyssey... although that was a harsher pill to swallow even for FD.
Finally its important to mention that FD does not view ED in any of its incarnations as a live service game. I have not ever heard them use those words.
It would be a smart play retake the VR aproach... sounds like Elite is their only product that has a fanbase really engaged.
It's because when you have walking around VR. Using the VR controllers give you a better feeling of immersion and helps with motion sickness because there's less 'disconnect' between your actions in VR and RL. NMS is a superb example of this, where although you have the jump/teleport option, there are actions you can do with the controllers which add to the immersion.
I'm comparing this to HL:Alyx because that it is the premier on foot VR Game Experience and ED players would want something along similar lines. All the suggestions I've included are there to allow the player to feel immersed because if you don't feel immersed in the game, you might as well just keep playing with the cinematic flat screen version. i.e In the ship, we all agree that you feel as if your actually in the cockpit and not playing a game. So you want that same kind of feeling when your walking around a station or planet, which you will not get through a console controller / Joystick combination and head look.
My point is not about immersion or usability of the VR handheld controllers. My point is that if you use HOTAS/HOSAS/game controller when flying your ship (in VR), then it's very unreasonable to expect you to be able to switch to the headset's controllers when you get on foot. Not practical. You have your headset covering your eyes, it wouldn't be at all practical to fumble round to try to grab the headset's controllers and start using them.
Rather obviously on-foot content would be played using the same controls as in non-VR flat-screen mode, as it is done currently. Many VR FPS games support this. You aim by looking. Otherwise the controls are as usual (with the exception of there being an option to rotate the camera in steps rather than continuously. Continuous rotation tends to cause nausea even to the most hardened VR players.)