With the implementation o NEW Karma e C&P - Will the Log timer go up? 15 secs is to low!
- Thread starter CMDR GTR2014
- Start date
I'd never clog on a bug, NPC's or legit players, when I've bug reported in the past I've always waived reimbursment even though I know support are really nice about that. No cares about money or stats, just not a fan of cheats.
As to identifying engineers cheats the people who have been openly whining about punishment are easy identifiable unrepentant cheats, I'd rather not and won't play a game with them as it's pretty certain they'll be all over the next cheat and probably already are. People who are ashamed of what they did and keep it quiet, are not anywhere near so much of an issue. Both types also had their modules removed.
My corvettes very well tweaked (to my standards) and I enjoyed running the pirate gauntlet with engineer matts. But I did it with minimal effort as I'm happy with best of three or five at the outside if the rolls are bad. Anything more than that and it gets to be too much like a job, a few percentage points don't make that much of a difference to ships that can shield tank for minutes or boost at 600 mps yet escape in 15 seconds. If we meet and you kick my buttocks in game, I'll assume you are a better pilot than me (and will have witnessed that first hand) and send you a well fought with no hard feelings or worries.
I don't see imaginary cheats everywhere, but my game is out of bounds to the ones I do know about.
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Those that cheated with the '5 for 1' exploit were punished by FD. It's over. They got what they deserved. Your cheating to account for cheating is simply justifying you Blocking threats. I mean if you really don't want to play along side cheats, you must have a serious case of self loathing as you twist the rules, and your place in relation to them, to suit your whims. To steal a phrase from our (American) Commander in Cheat: "Sad. Really sad."
WorldsGreatestForumDad
Banned
For as long as people play this game. IE 8+ hours to get to colonia. Or working on engineers. I dont see why its an issue to take 2-3 minutes to either die, or remove yourself from combat before you need to logout.
IMO, the option shouldn't even be available.
IMO, the option shouldn't even be available.
Rubbish FDEV should have perma-banned or reset them all, they should not be playing the game at all or at least be back in sideys (in the shadow server). Let alone being allowed to influence the BGS the poor legit players have to share with them. One of the community managers mentioned they are considering harsher punishments for cheats in future after the massive outpouring of happiness and no sympathy whatsoever when the punishment wave hit.
What threats is it you think I'm blocking ?, FDEV took away the exploited modules and now all they are left with are their sub-standard cheaters skills.
No whims, fears or laughable internet psychoanalysis. It's just a really simple rule, no cheats in my game.
I come here from time to time... Yet no Official Word from SS.... shame...
Have you PM'd him yet?
Or read the thread?
Hmm no response from CMDR GTR2014....shame....
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Ignoring combat logging since it's not strictly relevant to this thread and instead focusing on the 15 second timer; Stigbob does bring up a good point.
We now know that this game has a problem with cheaters. Many of the players recently caught cheating openly admit it, and almost all of those continue to justify what they did rather than accepting that it was wrong. A few even claim to be currently cheating in other ways. More worrying still, the communities where cheating was/is prevalent generally continue to accept the presence of "convicted" cheaters while attaching little or no stigma to them.
That combined with the well known fact that nothing short of a permanent ban is likely stop a cheater from continuing to cheat (read up on Valve's experiences with VAC and CSGO's Overwatch system for one good example) suggests legitimate ED players will continue to find themselves facing players who are cheating. At the moment there is a legitimate way to minimise the harm that causes in the form of gracefully exiting to the menu when encountering a known cheater, then blocking them from the contacts log.
If Frontier is going to consider reducing players' ability to log out at any time, they should in my opinion simultaneously take the steps necessary to make players confident that they aren't being forced to interact with cheaters.
We now know that this game has a problem with cheaters. Many of the players recently caught cheating openly admit it, and almost all of those continue to justify what they did rather than accepting that it was wrong. A few even claim to be currently cheating in other ways. More worrying still, the communities where cheating was/is prevalent generally continue to accept the presence of "convicted" cheaters while attaching little or no stigma to them.
That combined with the well known fact that nothing short of a permanent ban is likely stop a cheater from continuing to cheat (read up on Valve's experiences with VAC and CSGO's Overwatch system for one good example) suggests legitimate ED players will continue to find themselves facing players who are cheating. At the moment there is a legitimate way to minimise the harm that causes in the form of gracefully exiting to the menu when encountering a known cheater, then blocking them from the contacts log.
If Frontier is going to consider reducing players' ability to log out at any time, they should in my opinion simultaneously take the steps necessary to make players confident that they aren't being forced to interact with cheaters.
The problem now though is after their lame wrist slap only punishment for engineer cheaters, they are going to be called out on it if they implement actual punishments for less extreme cheats!
Yep there's a push to attach stigma to the ungraceful exit (which I've never actually done) and vilify the "offenders" up to and including off forum KOS lists so anyone identified rightly or wrongly as a clogger can effectively be harrassed in-game. Yet some of the same people are justifying and accept the engineering cheats as being totally forgiven and welcome in the game.
Every known engineer cheat should already be on all the clogger KOS lists, unless they are being maintained simply out of sheer hypocrisy or a desire to bully. Clearly the issue cannot be condemnation of cheating.
True, you have to be even handed and consistant to have any credibility, hence my issue with the clogger whitch-hunting.
Cool, same thing for using a game crash to cheat? That might mean a lot of people are upset with you. Since it's apparently used by enough people to fill out 13 pages of ironic complaint. If it wasn't happening very often, I can't imagine such a thread would garner much interest.
But here we are; 13 pages. Who knew. I didn't think it was at all as rampant as that. But every time the topic comes up (which is all the time) there's an endless milieu of commentariat ready to throw consequences under the bus to defend the right to terminate the game at a time and place of their choosing. The more you know, I guess?
Personally, if you want to make people culpable? Want to hold all accountable to the law? enforce it. Otherwise it's just hollow rhetoric. That means karma might run over the dogma, and that easy-escape plan ceases to exist.
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Highwake or menu log is by far the easiest escape plan (then add the dirty herbert to your block list if he's a known cheat), there's nothing even slightly wrong with any of that.
Everyone should do it, there's room for forgiveness though I'll unblock any cheat who posts video proof they've manned up and reset their exploited save.
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You cannot hold one responsible for cheating, then ignore the next for also cheating, just because. This is not grey. It's black and white. Very simple. I should not get to avoid consequences because they aren't optimal. Ever.
I can't think of any other multiplayer game I have ever played, that essentially makes me invulnerable, simply if my connection drops. This has done untold damage because it has legitimised risk avoidance. It's now entrenched, and worse, it's considered 'valid'. Combat logging is not "legit", under any circumstance. Any more than breaking the game to achieve module advantage is "legit" under any circumstance. They are two sides of the same coin.
Attempting to subvert the game and break it, for personal advantage that has direct impact on others. It's all the same thing.
High-wake? Menu-log. Whatever. Both are essentially in-game ways; both carry risk and both ensure the ship is not operating outside of the game's standard terms of operation. I have no problem with that. But I believe if you disconnect, for whatever reason, then the ship should not be placed on rails; rather, it should be removed from the instance when the disconnect is recognised, and it should not at any time remain invulnerable.
I see a lot of stones being cast by those who would happily cheat. It's pretty pathetic behaviour, frankly.
as a side note. I have 3 accounts, one of which is hard-mode. One day, I am going to die. Permanently. And I will reset my save. And I will learn from my mistake, and not make the same mistake again. I am going to dogfood my own belief. That there should always be consequences.
Those who repeatedly CL, essentially continue to make mistakes that they never learn from, and refuse to accept the consequences. I do not believe the game should reward that behaviour.
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Gotta love the doublespeak being used here, attempting to frame loggers as 'legitimate'.
It's intentional use of faulty game mechanics to avoid otherwise inevitable consequences, which falls squarely under the moniker of cheater. If you lost suck it up and face the consequences, whether that's lost cargo or a lost ship.
It's intentional use of faulty game mechanics to avoid otherwise inevitable consequences, which falls squarely under the moniker of cheater. If you lost suck it up and face the consequences, whether that's lost cargo or a lost ship.
what if your 'hard-mode' character died from a bug?
Maybe you're in SC and the game glitched, went a bit kaleidoscope-like, and you crash out of the game, log back in and you're at the insurance screen.
Unless you recorded that, FDEV wont give you your stuff back... Will you think to yourself... that was not my fault, the game crashed, therefore I'm entitled to hit the rebuy...?
See rock and hard place. If you punish yourself and reset because of a game bug, then you're being cheated. If you hit rebuy with the rational stance that it was 'beyond' your control, and was no fault of yours.. you're entitled to rebuy, but you're cheating yourself and your 'hard mode'...
For me the same applies to rational thinking whilst you're being attacked by someone cheating... cheat and cheat a cheater.. or dont cheat and let a cheater cheat you.
If you truely lost your ship to a cheater reporting ship destruction to FDEV would be the correct move. They have the tools to verify that a shield or weapon hack was used and then compensate you if that was what killed you. By logging you prevent a report from having accurate information, and if you pulled the plug that flags you as a cheater should you report and the enemy turned out to be legit.
It's not rational thinking you are proposing, it's an attempt at justifying cheating because of your feelings. Use the report tool if you suspect your ship was blown up by an actual cheater.
I'm not just talking about engineering cheats.. I'm talking about lobbing torpedos at someone coming up a station lift, or circumventing station security to get you blown up to no fault of your own.. or cheesing some other game mechanic at the detriment of my own ship. A lot of this nonsence goes on, yet is still cheating someone out of something. No log in the game is going to prove that person xyz who gets blown up by station guns for contravening some regulation, because another person prevented them from exiting..
Cheating isn't about god mode, or iddqd or whatever.. cheating is about bending rules in unintended ways so that person b finds himself at a disadvantaged state. Some say 'clever use of game mechanics'.. but to the inconvenienced person, it's cheating.
I don't have enough life to submit log files any time someone infringes my sense of fairness.. if someone is blocking me from taking off from my pad, and i cannot land.. then the plug it is. I'll log in solo.. get safe... log out... log back in OPEN. If someone wants to be a male-genitalia head.. then that's on them. not me.
Engineering cheats? I was referring to actual hacks, what you call cheating is entirely avoidable through basic foresight. Don't speed, scan everyone, carry countermeasures, etc.
You log on that and you're the cheater bending the rules in unintended ways. I've run past plenty of station guards and suicide attack runs, it's all preventable through basic loadout foresight.
https://youtu.be/Uh9AWV_BWo0
Follow this and you won't die or even lose cargo in nearly all cases, even more so if you then engineer a properly secure ship even further.
[Not going to directly post as I know AA and Maynard will be wiggling their index finger at me 
But youtube anatomy of a gank from Genar].
There's a deceptively thin line between what's fair, and what's plain unfair.
Certainly if this had been me, I wouldn't have stuck around to be destroyed like this. Something like a cutter, not particularly nimble, and mass locked by the station, passing through the letterbox with a 60m rebuy.. Is this in the spirit of the game?
Cheat or not, I think i'd have used the express checkout. I'd have been happy to discuss it in length with FDEV had sanctions been applied.
On topic, menu log may have just about worked if caught early enough at the point of the first missile warning. Menu log of 30s would not have helped. Had the menu log been 1 minute or 30 seconds, then any legitimate quit out would be ruled out completely leaving the only option one that is equally against the spirit of the game as the attack itself.
I'm not saying it's right.. but i'd rather not risk 60m credits in an in game dispute on what's fair, not fair, against the spirit of the game, or exploitation of station limitations vs someone playing 'within the limits of the game'.
But youtube anatomy of a gank from Genar].There's a deceptively thin line between what's fair, and what's plain unfair.
Certainly if this had been me, I wouldn't have stuck around to be destroyed like this. Something like a cutter, not particularly nimble, and mass locked by the station, passing through the letterbox with a 60m rebuy.. Is this in the spirit of the game?
Cheat or not, I think i'd have used the express checkout. I'd have been happy to discuss it in length with FDEV had sanctions been applied.
On topic, menu log may have just about worked if caught early enough at the point of the first missile warning. Menu log of 30s would not have helped. Had the menu log been 1 minute or 30 seconds, then any legitimate quit out would be ruled out completely leaving the only option one that is equally against the spirit of the game as the attack itself.
I'm not saying it's right.. but i'd rather not risk 60m credits in an in game dispute on what's fair, not fair, against the spirit of the game, or exploitation of station limitations vs someone playing 'within the limits of the game'.
Normally, I get about five seconds of attack before going *boom*, and facing the rebuy screen. Owning mostly small ships helps avoid being accused of combat logging.