Yes PVP is unfair.

dxm55

Banned
D
Futuristic Kung Fu said:
Not everyone who has a bounty is a griefer, you know…
Click to expand...

Of course. But everyone is going on about how crime/punishment isn't realistic.
Do you think it's realistic that an insurance company would want to cover a murderer?

You only get murder bounties for killing in lawful systems. And besides, if you took on a mission to murder NPC civilians, you know what you're getting into.

Deadspin said:
Except "big space battles" is one of the things Frontier is against. See you next year!

While I'm sure some of your more pvp-fearing friends think this is an amazing series of ideas, it's really not. Implementing a set of rules like this would only serve to (almost completely) destroy PvP within the game, where Frontier is looking for a way to balance risk against reward, not stop it.
Click to expand...

No. This affects PVE (killing NPC too).

PVP can still take place in anarchy systems, or the border worlds, where you can kill Federation targets and skip right back into Empire space (or vice versa).
But living in the Core Worlds of either major faction, you'd probably want to think twice about pirating, murder, whether it'd be an NPC or commander.

If you'd ask me... I think this balances things out for both PVE and PVP. If you wanted realism, every entity in the game (NPC or CMDR) is a life, and is worth something.


excalibus said:
I often get bounties in excess of half a million credits... and that is without firing on another commander.... soooo this would definitely impact anyone killing a clean NPC...

I can see the griefers rubbing their little hands in their dehulled eagles and sideies whenever a T9 or annie is 'speeding' into dock...
Click to expand...

Oh, so you want only the PVE players to have fun killing NPCs without consequences, while the PVP players can't kill commanders?
If you want a realistic crime/punishment system then NPCs and CMDRs should be treated equally.

Think twice before taking on assassination missions. Think twice before taking on missions that require you to kill civilians or explorers.
Killing anyone in lawful space comes with heavy consequences. Go do it in anarchy or border/frontier systems.
 

Uvelius Sång

Uvelius Sång
It shouldn't be hard to implement a proper Crime Hunt system in Elite, as it has already been suggested elsewhere.
With increasing bounties,
- in Sec/HiSec systems: the chances to be interdicted by SecVessels grows, and the number of SecVessels increase (a nice mix of Sec Anacondas, Vipers, Vultures)
- in LowSec/Anarchy systems: NPC Bounty hunters come after the Wanted ship in numbers.
- Station of the PvPers faction might not respond or not respond that harshliy, as it is with PPlay fights.
- Bounties could be increased for repeating attack of low-grade players (Sideys, Harmlesses etc.)

Voilá, immersion and pressure on the PvP player without placing any moral blame on him or her. PvP would still be possible but, if the system is set up good, it would require much more afterthought.
 
Last edited:

[VR] Mad Mike

[VR] Mad Mike
dxm55 said:
Think twice before taking on assassination missions. Think twice before taking on missions that require you to kill civilians or explorers.
Killing anyone in lawful space comes with heavy consequences. Go do it in anarchy or border/frontier systems.
Click to expand...

I agree with much of what you say, and indeed imo it is about time the pilots federation cleaned its house and really started taking a dim view of people who take on kill trader and civvie type missions. we need the darkwheel faction for that.

That being said however lore wise there is a difference written in between killing npcs and players so it is not that silly to have different rules IF FD chose.
I do not care either way, so long as we get SOME consequences.

AS your rightly point out the whole, "laws in controlled space will kill PvP" is a red herring because syhstem security is meant to mean something in the game. Anarchy have no use at the moment, with law improvements this would change.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Robert Maynard
Sandmann said:
Probably coz NPC's don't complain if you grief them.
Click to expand...

As others will no doubt point out, quite fairly, PvP != Griefing. However, some forms of Griefing form a subset of PvP.

Frontier seem to want to walk the line between play-styles and have them all co-exist in the same, single, Open game mode while, at the same time, offering players the option to avoid any play-style(s) by playing in Solo or Private Groups*.

*: subject to all members of the Private Group abiding by the rules that they agreed to when requesting to join the Private Group, of course.
 
Last edited:

Deelkar

Deelkar
Why PvP is like spam e-mail:



  • the initiator determines the playing field
  • the receiver does not want it
  • having an unpublished e-mail address (leaving open) does not really work, they find you sooner or later
  • the sender stacks the odds in their favor as much as possible
  • there are honorable attempts of advertising but they still are annoying
  • there is no way to "get back" so can very frustrating



Why PvP is not like spam e-mail



  • you don't lose money (even virtual money) receiving spam e-mail
  • you can set up a spam filter, even with a published e-mail-address
 

Derath

D
Deelkar said:
Why PvP is like spam e-mail:



  • the initiator determines the playing field
  • the receiver does not want it
  • having an unpublished e-mail address (leaving open) does not really work, they find you sooner or later
  • the sender stacks the odds in their favor as much as possible
  • there are honorable attempts of advertising but they still are annoying
  • there is no way to "get back" so can very frustrating



Why PvP is not like spam e-mail



  • you don't lose money (even virtual money) receiving spam e-mail
  • you can set up a spam filter, even with a published e-mail-address
Click to expand...

PvP Is like spam e-mail, I never engage unless I want to, and other than that i never see it ;)
 

Sandmann

Sandmann
Robert Maynard said:
As others will no doubt point out, quite fairly, PvP != Griefing. However, some forms of Griefing form a subset of PvP.

Frontier seem to want to walk the line between play-styles and have them all co-exist in the same, single, Open game mode while, at the same time, offering players the option to avoid any play-style(s) by playing in Solo or Private Groups*.

*: subject to all members of the Private Group abiding by the rules that they agreed to when requesting to join the Private Group, of course.
Click to expand...

I should clarify. I didn't intend top imply that all (or even most) PvP was griefing... however the fact is that all griefing IS PvP of some sort, and griefing is a prime (but not the only) motivator for improved crime & consequence mechanics.
 

Derath

D
Sandmann said:
I should clarify. I didn't intend top imply that all (or even most) PvP was griefing... however the fact is that all griefing IS PvP of some sort, and griefing is a prime (but not the only) motivator for improved crime & consequence mechanics.
Click to expand...

Its funny that you say this, as I would wager that stations have actually griefed vastly more pilots than any pvp player has, its just that getting cheesed by the station is considered a frustrating game mechanic instead.

Probably gives some interesting ideas on the human mentality
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Robert Maynard
Derath said:
Its funny that you say this, as I would wager that stations have actually griefed vastly more pilots than any pvp player has, its just that getting cheesed by the station is considered a frustrating game mechanic instead.

Probably gives some interesting ideas on the human mentality
Click to expand...

Stations don't grief - they consistently follow a fixed rule-set. A station will not destroy ships that don't break those rules. :)
 

Deelkar

Deelkar
The PvP-SPAM comparison was not made to accuse PvP players, just that the game mechanics result in it being comparable. Since there is no PvE Mode (private groups do not count, for various reasons) or PvP flagging, the mechanics start working in exactly the same way.

A player interested in PvP should strongly lobby for this to change. A player interested in PvE should strongly lobby for this to change, even in the same way.

The way it works now is exclusively beneficial to griefers.
 
Last edited:

bamber

B
Deelkar said:
Why PvP is like spam e-mail:



  • the initiator determines the playing field
  • the receiver does not want it
  • having an unpublished e-mail address (leaving open) does not really work, they find you sooner or later
  • the sender stacks the odds in their favor as much as possible
  • there are honorable attempts of advertising but they still are annoying
  • there is no way to "get back" so can very frustrating





Why PvP is not like spam e-mail



  • you don't lose money (even virtual money) receiving spam e-mail
  • you can set up a spam filter, even with a published e-mail-address
Click to expand...


I wish that Spam Email was like PVP

  • It would only arrive once a year
  • It would have something different and interesting inside
  • The would never bother me again after that first contact
 
Last edited:

Derath

D
Robert Maynard said:
Stations don't grief - they consistently follow a fixed rule-set. A station will not destroy ships that don't break those rules. :)
Click to expand...

They follow a very specific set of fixed rules and destroy ships that don't, that's identical to PvP'ers, the issue is the rules the pvp'ers follow aren't as obvious or as well taught but once you know them your just as likely to get killed by the station as another player.
 

Deelkar

Deelkar
bamber said:
I wish that Spam Email was like PVP

  • It would only arrive once a year
  • It would have something different and interesting inside
  • The would never bother me again after that first contact
Click to expand...

Deelkar said:
The PvP-SPAM comparison was not made to accuse PvP players, just that the game mechanics result in it being comparable. Since there is no PvE Mode (private groups do not count, for various reasons) or PvP flagging, the mechanics start working in exactly the same way.

A player interested in PvP should strongly lobby for this to change. A player interested in PvE should strongly lobby for this to change, even in the same way.

The way it works now is exclusively beneficial to griefers.
Click to expand...

Another whay PvP is not like spam is, that the attacker has to - near enough as makes no difference - one-on-one the attacked.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Robert Maynard
Derath said:
They follow a very specific set of fixed rules and destroy ships that don't, that's identical to PvP'ers, the issue is the rules the pvp'ers follow aren't as obvious or as well taught but once you know them your just as likely to get killed by the station as another player.
Click to expand...

Is there a PvP rulebook somewhere that we should know about?

I very much doubt that every PvP player would agree on it if it existed....
 

Derath

D
Robert Maynard said:
My point is that PvPers do not follow rules. They may incur fairly meaningless consequences however.
Click to expand...

Of course they follow rules, the rules of the game exactly the same as stations. They can't interdict unless they are behind you, they can't slow high wakes, they can't slow low wakes if they don't mass-lock, they can't outrun you if you are faster, they can't hide on the supercruise map, they can't hide on the loading screen for a system if you have the bitrate up, they can't follow you in a meaningful timeframe if you drop before interdiction.

Yes if you are bounty-hunting at a CG in the middle of an asteroid field right ontop of the marker you have limited your options, just like I limit my options by boosting through the mail slot everytime and risking certain destruction on contact, but you have wiggle room even then ;)
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom