Palladium FROM GLIESE 868 maclean @ 12585 TO RA laconte @ 14229; 1644 ppt.
Last edited:
-
Greetings Commander, want a more instant approach to your questions and need for help? Check out the Galactic Academy Discord server!
Feel free to join the Galactic Academy Discord server by clicking here!
Guide / Tutorial Yokai's guide to recognizing (and finding) a great trade route
- Thread starter Yokai
- Start date
I suppose I cast a much wider net yokai. When searching for the A leg of a route, I normally query data from within a 100 LY radius sphere.
Once I find a list of potential candidate worlds, I do a cursory examination on the galaxy map (that the stations in question exist, that they have decent populations, and that they have economies that I expect to deal in those goods).
Then I personally fly out to verify prices in person with my souped up Hauler (A3 fuel scoop and ~30 LY jump range). One should not fret about "losing money from a cargoless run" when checking prices with the hauler. If the route is legit, then the profit from moving a cargo vessel along the route will far surpass the loss of moving nothing for your fact checking expedition. I highly recommend the Hauler for doing price checks. The A3 scoop usually fully refuels the tank before the FSD has finished cooling down for the next jump. Presuming you don't bump into 4+ unscoopable stars in a row, your range is essentially infinite. The most expensive part of the vessel is the ~900k credit A3 scoop, which you should be able to afford if you're looking for bulk goods trade routes. You can always sell the scoop back at 100% of the cost once the prices have been confirmed, so it really doesn't cost you anything.
Once I've confirmed that the prices a A are legit, I then look within a ~50 LY radius sphere for the other worlds. I think that it is important to cast your net that far because I believe that NPC traders provide a portion of the goods to nearby systems within the local neighborhood. I don't have hard data to back this up, but I almost never see high demand for products that are available from the next system over. It just seems to me that profits are poor when I examine any import/export routes that are visible on the galaxy map in colored lines.
In my performance enhancers>tobacco>pallidum triangle, each world is ~30-40LY apart. This requires me to make 2-3 jumps per leg. Minimizing travel time is indeed important, but IMO people fret too much about minimizing # of jumps. IMO interstellar jumps don't add all that much time to the route. However, I am running the game off of an SSD, so perhaps I'm spending less time in witchspace than other players.
Last edited:
Damn you vjek, don't show my route
Ha!
I just picked one of the more lopsided ones at random.... didn't mean to cause a fuss. hehe.
@Armchair - thanks, that makes me feel better, lol. You're much more patient than me: I tend to run ANY > ANY unconstrained searches with a maximum radius of 30-40 LY, and when using the BPC tab to look for routes I typically filter for stations no more than 24 LY apart (two jumps at most). But yes, I totally agree with you that there isn't much difference in travel time between 1 jump and 5-6 jumps. What really counts is the distance from the ingress star to each station: If you can find a route where each station is <2000 LS from the ingress point, that's cherry.
@vjek and @Sams - info like that is an open secret if you run any one of the commodity tools. For example, in Slopey's BPC tool:
1. On the "Commodities" tab, search for Palladium.
2. Sort the "Price" column in ascending order so the lowest prices (to buy it from a station) are at the top.
3. Pick the first one on the list that is reasonably-accurate looking data (the lowest prices are in the 12K range per ton). Note the name of the system/station selling it at that price.
4. Now go to the BPC tab and enter that system/station in the "From" fields. Set your search radius to 24 LY.
5. Click "Search".
6. Sort the "Unit Profit" column in descending order (highest profit per ton at the top).
This simple pattern will net you dozens and dozens of one-way trade routes that are in the 1500-1800 cr/ton range, if not more.
The trick is extrapolating this technique to then find 2-way or 3-way, etc. trade routes that yield anywhere close to 1000 cr/ton or more on each leg of the route. These are very very very rare, and as @Armchair describes above, probably requires 30 LY jumps or more between each leg of the route. There's a lot of iterating and searching involved here. Absent actually doing this degree of research, your most bang for the buck is looking for a one-way route in the 1800 cr/ton range and then hoping to get at least 300-500 cr/ton on the return trip to that same station. This technique takes practically no time at all to find if you use a tool like Slopey's BPC.
@vjek and @Sams - info like that is an open secret if you run any one of the commodity tools. For example, in Slopey's BPC tool:
1. On the "Commodities" tab, search for Palladium.
2. Sort the "Price" column in ascending order so the lowest prices (to buy it from a station) are at the top.
3. Pick the first one on the list that is reasonably-accurate looking data (the lowest prices are in the 12K range per ton). Note the name of the system/station selling it at that price.
4. Now go to the BPC tab and enter that system/station in the "From" fields. Set your search radius to 24 LY.
5. Click "Search".
6. Sort the "Unit Profit" column in descending order (highest profit per ton at the top).
This simple pattern will net you dozens and dozens of one-way trade routes that are in the 1500-1800 cr/ton range, if not more.
The trick is extrapolating this technique to then find 2-way or 3-way, etc. trade routes that yield anywhere close to 1000 cr/ton or more on each leg of the route. These are very very very rare, and as @Armchair describes above, probably requires 30 LY jumps or more between each leg of the route. There's a lot of iterating and searching involved here. Absent actually doing this degree of research, your most bang for the buck is looking for a one-way route in the 1800 cr/ton range and then hoping to get at least 300-500 cr/ton on the return trip to that same station. This technique takes practically no time at all to find if you use a tool like Slopey's BPC.
This doesn't say anything about the most important aspect of finding a trade route: what to trade between economies. It seems to assume you already know what to trade between industrial and agricultural for instance.
Can't find great trade routes if you don't know what to trade.
Can't find great trade routes if you don't know what to trade.
Explaining that in detail would be really time consuming and redundant, as it is not THAT difficult to figure it out. Take a close look at the commodity market of every economy. Things that are on medium/high supply there are most of the time produced there. Things that are on medium/high demand are needed. Sometimes you just need to read the name or description of a certain commodity to know who will buy it. Furthermore the right window in the market tells you where the currently selected good is exported to / imported from. These export/import data can also be displayed in the galaxy map for systems in a certain distance. Combine those sources of information and you'll soon get the general idea of what to trade between certain economies.
For example if you are on a High Tech station you'll notice that plenty of the goods in the "Technology" category are in med/high stock and can be bought below galactic average. Now your eye falls on a commodity named "Land Enrichment Systems". Well... who could need that!? YES, RIGHT! The agricultural station just aroud the corner could sure make some use of that thing. You decide to buy some of them and head out right away. But wait.. if that plays out to be a profitable deal you might want to come back and get more of these Land Enrichment Systems. Now what could you haul on your way back. Obviously that would be something which is produced on the agricultural station and sold there for below average prices. So it can only be food or "legal drugs" (Tobacco/Wine/Beer/Liquor). Check if your current High Tech station has a high demand for any of these goods and is paying above average for it. As a rule of thumb: The more expensive goods tend to yield more profit/ton. So the best trading good you can get at an agricultural station is mostly tobacco. Unfortunately this is banned at many stations. So eventually you may have to stick to Coffee/Tea/Animal meat on your way back. Take a screenshot of the selling prices for these goods at your High Tech station. So you'll know which commod makes the best profit on your way back. Voila! You figured out your first trading route between a High-Tech and an Agricultural economy.
I admit.. this example is really basic and simple. But it works that way with all the economy types. Sometimes you can't just figure out your best bet only by the name of the commodity itself. But once you start trading, you'll get the hang of it and figure out the most profitable items between certain economies rather quickly.
Hope I could help.
Last edited:
Given the... well, I'm just going to say it, embarrassingly simple demand/supply/pricing model that FDEV is currently using, the list of what to trade amounts to what is available for the highest disparity between two systems (or stations, if medium).
That, among all the steps in finding a good trade route, is the easiest/fastest/simplest, in my experience.
That depends on what is fetching the best profit at any given point in time
Usually the commodity on the Flagship leg of the route is a precious metal like Palladium. Palladium is produced by extraction economies and tends to be desired most by High Tech commodities. The trick is getting good profits on the other legs of the route alongside the flagship route.
Imperial Slaves can be another good commodity. Obviously those are found in Imperial Space, and you can usually find them on high population Agricultural worlds.
Fancy medicines like Performance Enchancers and Progenitor cells can also been seen fetching goods prices frequently. Usually they're desired by the population of wealthy systems. The greater the population of wealthy citizens, the greater the demand. Consequently wealthy agricultural worlds tend to have the highest demand for these medicines because Agri worlds tend to have HUUUUUUGE populations.
Last edited:
Thanks for the write-up, Yokai. I've been running routes this way for awhile now, and it's good to see that my returns are about the norm.
One more hint I'd like to add is: when visiting these stations, take a peek at the Mission Board. I often find fetch missions that end up paying out at around 2,000/t profit. If the station you're headed from has it in stock, it's a nice way to bolster your income on the next trip. These may begin to peter out when you use a T7+ (as I haven't purchased one yet,) but it can really help out the new trader.
One more hint I'd like to add is: when visiting these stations, take a peek at the Mission Board. I often find fetch missions that end up paying out at around 2,000/t profit. If the station you're headed from has it in stock, it's a nice way to bolster your income on the next trip. These may begin to peter out when you use a T7+ (as I haven't purchased one yet,) but it can really help out the new trader.
Just curious - what are the commodities?
Palladium and Imperial Slaves
edit:
I'll be honest, I didn't finish verifying the prices at "B" once I saw the 96k LS trip. Trying to make "A" part of a triangle now.
edit2:
so close to a triangle....43k ls.
If they ever let us micro-jump to secondary stars, SO many routes will open up.
edit3:
Found a triangle. One leg is a little longer than I'd like (~60 LY), but there are stars positioned in pretty much a straight line at ~max jump range. Going to try repositioning my Asp to see what kind of haul I bring in. I may need to search again for a new "A" world to work from.
edit 4:
Triangle complete. Here are the stats from my trial run in my Asp, which presently has 120 cargo capacity and a 20.18 laden jump range.
Leg 1: Consumer tech at a profit of ~1400 per ton. With my Asp's 120 ton cargo capacity, that's ~167,000 profit.
Leg 2: Imperial slaves at a profit of ~1700 per ton. This leg nets ~204,000 profit.
Leg 3: Palladium at a profit of ~1650 per ton. This leg nets ~198,000 profit.
All three legs are based at stations capable of supporting large vessels.
Total combined profit from the trial run: 570120 credits.
Average profit per ton between all three legs: 1583 credits per ton.
Longest leg ~60 LY (as the crow flies).
Total travel time (from take off to landing at the central station): ~20 minutes.
Profit per hour (with 120 ton cargo capacity): 1.7 million credits per hour.
Perhaps some of you don't believe me, but these types of routes are indeed present within the game if you sift through the numbers enough.
I'm dining on Witchhaul Kobe steak tonight ^_^
Last edited:
I think you mean 988 cr/ton round-trip. (1594+382)/2
If you haul 1 ton from A->B at a profit of 1594 cr/t, you have made 1594cr profit. If you then haul 1 ton from B->A at a profit of 382cr/t, you have made 382cr profit. That's a total profit of 1976cr. But you've hauled two tons. Therefore 988cr/t. That's what "per ton" means.
Put it another way, if I get 20mpg driving to work, and 20mpg driving back, my car doesn't do 40mpg.
Put it another way, if I get 20mpg driving to work, and 20mpg driving back, my car doesn't do 40mpg.
If you haul 1 ton from A->B at a profit of 1594 cr/t, you have made 1594cr profit. If you then haul 1 ton from B->A at a profit of 382cr/t, you have made 382cr profit. That's a total profit of 1976cr. But you've hauled two tons. Therefore 988cr/t. That's what "per ton" means.
Put it another way, if I get 20mpg driving to work, and 20mpg driving back, my car doesn't do 40mpg.
You're splitting hairs. Everyone else reading this understands the context in which "cr/ton/hour" is used in this guide (and entire thread, except for you).
Every time you make a haul, you're getting some "unit profit" per ton hauled. That's cr per ton, or cr/ton as a shorthand notation, because unitProfit or similar is less immediately intuitive for most people.
If you make 1500 unitProfit in one direction and 500 unitProfit in the other direction, that's 2000 unitProfit for the round trip.
If you make 1500 cr/ton in one direction and 500 cr/ton in the other direction, that's 2000 cr/ton for the round trip.
If you can do that 2000 cr/ton round trip in 15 minutes, thats 8000 cr/ton/hour.
In case that doesn't satisfy you, let me try a different approach: You yourself interpreted my example A > B haul as generating "a profit of 1594 cr/t". Then you shorthanded it as "you have made 1594cr profit". So you demonstrate that you know exactly what I meant by "1594 cr/ton/hour" (most people intuitively interpret that as "profit per hour").
The reason I phrase my guide in terms of cr/ton/hour is simple. I'm a tech writer for a living (lol) and I actually work with pricing science software these days. So I'm more than familiar with all the precise terminology of micro- and macro-economics, and of mathematical operations in general. But most people aren't. MOST people will think in terms of "I have 100 ton capacity. What's the most per ton I can generate in X amount of time?" Ergo: cr/ton/hour
Last edited: