No Single Player offline Mode then?

[Darcikon]

I don't get the point about a cash grab.

Michael

It's pretty simple.

FDev asked for money to make a game.

They promised features for that game.

They received money.

They changed what features would be available.

They did not communicate those changes in a timely manner.


The shipping product now comes without features that were promised at time of payment.
Hence, "cash grab"

 

[SlickReed]

The online servers provide all of the data and processing for the galaxy, interactions between players and all transactions of value. Without it there isn't a game. We always intended that the way to play the game would be online. We had hoped that we could do an offline variant, but as the game progressed the online requirement superseded that. It wasn't an easy choice to make, but to stay true to the game we set out to make we had to make this choice.

Michael

This is a reasonable explaination.

 

[Skeloton]

I wonder how close to release they're going to announce they're dropping coop features?

Personally would not surprise me. Since 18th of Oct, I haven't been able to get Private Grouping to function correctly. Its simply to much of a sodding hassle to get working.

 

[CMDR Byrt Makklin]

As I said it's not simply the data although that is certainly an issue. Remember you don't just have the start point of the galaxy, you have any changes that are applied to it. The decision making processes for gameplay within the galaxy are also cloud based and it's not a simple job to transfer these over. The vision for how the game works has necessitated a much more encompassing online structure than we'd initially thought. We've not just said - let's not do offline. We've investigated the different ways we can do it and the simple answer is that we can't - not without compromising the game we're trying to make.

Michael

So the game you are trying to make has always been online only then? (asking, but based on what your last sentence says, accurate?) Why did you ever say there would be an online version?

I'm pretty stupid, programming averse, currently drunk, Irish - but still... umm...

"The game we're trying to make will never work offline. There's a chance we'll develop such a client in the future, if the demand exists, but currently, it's far from a priority."



There you go.

AGAIN, gie us a jawb.

EDITED TO ADD: ah, Jeez, I'm Irish. So every time I take Michael to task for his wording, it feels like Mike Tyson wanted to fight Barry McGuigan.

Michael, I'm sorry. You're a little outclassed in your wordmanship, and you have the unfortunate handicap of a (slightly nervous) company watching your every post. I promise not to deploy claws from now on.

 

[Biffa]

Well I can't see the players without internet connection complaining very loudly.

 

[sbdags]

I doubt that would work, he can't even get a mobile signal in his house he has to go into the back garden to make a phone call lol. But hey.. You're going to suggest he moves house now huh?

Out of interest - where on Earth does he live?

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

But nothing prevents them from giving us a local private server, except that apparently they don't want to:

And there were no promises of ED private server (for obvious reasons). Heh, even SC backs from their private server promise now. It's just not that time and age anymore.

 

[Doubler]

It kind feels like FDEV is kind of throwing the baby out with the bathwater here. It doesn't look like the people who were looking forward to offline mode had any illusions about how dynamic the galaxy was going to be.

 

[zhaith]

I have to say i'll struggle to believe a single thing FD say from now on, and the cash grab is up to last week people were still buying this thinking that an offline option was available, the fact it has been know about and nothing said about it does nothing for trust between yourselves and your customers, this issue doesn't even effect me other than lag issues but right now i'm strongly considering the refund route.

 

[Rudebot Gengod]

Another game console, funded by the people of pc.

 

[Pibbles]

I don't get the point about a cash grab.

Michael

Because if FD are willing to refund Store buyers without people resorting to legal action, charge back, UK Section 75 rulings etc. it shows you and David and the Mods when they made those statements up to last week about there definitely being an offline version, were making a genuine mistake you are going to repair to those that ask.

If you do not answer or refuse refunds then FD are evidently capitalising on the decision to remove promised features, to keep money in the pot - a cash grab in gamer parlance.

So whilst I as a backer don't seek a refund - although I think the decision stinks - it will define how I publicly talk about the game and FD. Do I warn people off because a sleight of hand has been perpetrated, or do I say FD are a company that makes good on their mistakes.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

The shipping product now comes without features that were promised at time of payment.
Hence, "cash grab"

I really think you should check your accusatory terminology there

 

[Bladesteel]

Dear David

I gave you several times what I normally pay for a game based on the kickstarter promises. That included the promise that it would be possible to play the game 40 years from now, no matter what state FD might be in and whether anyone runs the servers. ("Look dear, that's the space station granpa got for your mother")

You have now gone back on that promise, and to make matters worse tried to have it hidden behind "marketing speak" worthy of the worst parts of the gaming business. I'm afraid, to me, your word is now worth a lot less than it used to. I'll still play your game but part of the magic has been ruined by knowing it can be tsken away from me at any time.


I've read the first one thousand posts i this thread before writing this, and that's about as much time I'll give it. I write this post so that if FD still care enough to go through it I'd be counted among the disappointed.

 

[PrometheusDarko]

@mr PrometheusDarko..
some people didn't expect to need to be online all the time to play the game...

To play the game marketed as an MMO? Makes perfect sense...

I'm not defending Frontier here - I'm making a common sense point.

I too have spent a lot of money for this game alone (PB, HOTAS, DK2, Additional GPU, extra 2 monitors, etc, etc) a lot more than £700.

That's *MY* choice to do that, no one elses. I cannot and would never expect Frontier to offer any recompense for this, and for you to suggest it for your friend is a little silly. If he chose to spend the money for one game alone then Caveat Emptor.

Careful now, you're making an awful lot of sense. We don't take kindly to that around these parts... Apparently.

I suggest maybe this friend spends a tiny percentage of the amount he has already invested into playing Elite into getting an internet connection installed?

Blasphemy! It's almost like it's apparent he has the money to do so, via the £700 updgrades!

perhaps in a few months a "static universe patch" could be added to the game for download where players can get a copy of a pregenerated universe to play offline via a menu option"
[...]
its something to look into possibly down the road but for now something like it wont be at launch!

That's something I would like to see if and when the servers must close. But that should be years (hopefully, decades) down the line. I would rather they don't make it a priority however.

 

[Prestidigitator]

Having had two online games that I was enjoying playing pulled on me, I also backed the KS campaign purely as a decoupled offline mode was promised.

I cannot square the comments from Michael Brookes regarding 'vision' etc with this eleventh hour withdrawal from the promise.

I am lucky enough to have an extremely robust internet connection (although that's not stopped me suffering the freezes, disconnects, 'cannot connect to server' etc that everyone else has, and still continues to suffer) - however I am mortified that those people who had a NEED for a wholly offline mode JUST TO PLAY THE GAME are being effectively cauterised from the game by what, when you look below the PR, is a "we didn't have time/inclination to do it and there are not enough of them for us to care about financially" reason.

It's not helped that it's looking increasingly likely that the launch will not go well (both technically and review-wise) and so the business model which I was already extremely concerned about (whereby the online server component is not paid for with a subscription model but by game sales and microtransactions) means that game will most likely not last very long before the vaunted 'dynamic galaxy' component delivered by the online connection, is pulled - leaving us all with installation media and a client, but no game.

IF there were to be a new promise - that in the event of the online connection being withdrawn (along with all the usual trite marketingspeak of "it's been an amazing journey..." etc) that a final update WOULD give players the opportunity to play on in a wholly offline capacity, then this may keep me away from the refund option at this stage. Although I'd have to weigh the possibility for that promise to be given the Orwellian treatment too.

In short: VERY DISAPPOINTED with the producers behaviour in this, VERY CONCERNED about the long-term prospects for the game, and VERY LIKELY to request a full refund of my KS pledge as a result.

 

[Bob_H]

As I said it's not simply the data although that is certainly an issue. Remember you don't just have the start point of the galaxy, you have any changes that are applied to it. The decision making processes for gameplay within the galaxy are also cloud based and it's not a simple job to transfer these over. The vision for how the game works has necessitated a much more encompassing online structure than we'd initially thought. We've not just said - let's not do offline. We've investigated the different ways we can do it and the simple answer is that we can't - not without compromising the game we're trying to make.

Michael

The point is Michael, that the people who do want or need an offline way of playing ED KNEW and EXPECT that the overall experience will be compromised and DON'T CARE that it will be compromised. For whatever reason they had they backed you, David and FD on the promise of a cut down, unchanging and compromised galaxy simulator that they could still play regardless of where they were or how good their internet connection, if any, is. They need to have an offline mode in order to be able to play ED.

They paid good money on the expectation they will be able to play. Expectations based on your muppets in advertising and PR own declarations both in the KS AND on your promotional web site that there will be a cut down, compromised and otherwise static game environment.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

In short: VERY DISAPPOINTED with the producers behaviour in this, VERY CONCERNED about the long-term prospects for the game, and VERY LIKELY to request a full refund of my KS pledge as a result.

KS are not refundable, sorry.

 

[sbdags]

I have to say i'll struggle to believe a single thing FD say from now on, and the cash grab is up to last week people were still buying this thinking that an offline option was available, the fact it has been know about and nothing said about it does nothing for trust between yourselves and your customers, this issue doesn't even effect me other than lag issues but right now i'm strongly considering the refund route.

It's a bit of a double edged sword as although the Kick-starter page from Dec 2012 mentions the intention of solo offline at no point have we ever seen evidence that it was in production or have we actually been testing it. Everyone who played the game so far has needed an INTERNET connection. So it hasn't really come as a surprise to me. I can see why some people are upset - and they should ask for a refund and go.

I am getting annoyed at some of the people on here who clearly are out for blood and are trying to destroy the whole experience for everyone else though. Nothing positive comes from that type of attitude.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

The point is Michael, that the people who do want or need an offline way of playing ED KNEW and EXPECT that the overall experience will be compromised and DON'T CARE that it will be compromised. For whatever reason they had they backed you, David and FD on the promise of a cut down, unchanging and compromised galaxy simulator. They need to have an offline mode in order to be able to play ED.

They paid good money on the expectation they will be able to play. Expectations based on your muppets in advertising and PR own declarations both in the KS AND on your promotional web site that there will be a cut down, compromised and otherwise static game environment.

Please show me where they advertised and talked a lot about offline mode post kickstarter. Please.

 

[-o-]

At the moment all refund requests are dealt with on a case by case basis.

Michael

Case by case ?

As all purchases have been made pre-release, I am wondering what parms could possibly differentiate the cases. Why would one refund request get approved, and another not?

Is there some magical, secret word we need to quote, or some obsure oriental yoga position we need to assume while making the request?