The ganker is responsible for anyone he blows up.
The blocker is responsible for screwing up any instance his block list disrupts
The Open v Solo v Groups thread
- Thread starter Ozric
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The blocker is responsible for screwing up any instance his block list disrupts
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Which, unless the gankers are getting a free pass, reasonably shows that the gankers are responsible for instancing issues due to the way that they choose to interact with other players.The ganker is responsible for anyone he blows up.
The blocker is responsible for screwing up any instance his block list disrupts
No, it shows gankers love to blow up ships.
What the blockers do is upon the blockers, not upon the gankers.
That argumentation is nonsense.
See, there I agree with you. It's what I did. I chose the appropriate mode for me, I rarely fly paper planes, I know how to evade a gank and wild horses couldn't drag me to ShinDez in open unless it is morbid curiosity.
It just rubs me the wrong way that those who don't know better (yet) are met with this giant wall of "it's on you, CMDR", "git gud or go solo" and similar nonsense, potentially driving them away forever. People who are no fun for the average (or below) player and tend to ruin especially the weaker players' experience need much more calling out, dare I say: Need to be isolated.
And make no mistakes: The type of ganker that riles me up so much is the one who blabbers about "humans offer a challange" while attacking a harmless CMDR with a paper plane in a G5 murderboat while waking at the first sign of real resistance.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
I'll agree to disagree - a double standard is in play, i.e. the gankers are free to play how they like using features available to them but the blockers are not - according to some players anyway.
I am starting to believe that ED is a hidden social experiment.
Create the obvious most evil and unsympathic characters for powerplay and see how many players support this abominations (sometimes even ferociously)?
Create a lack of opportunities for reasonable PvP and so incent toxic gameplay towards other players even more? Lets see how the community deals with it!
"The world is not threatened by the people who are evil, but by those who allow evil to happen." (Albert Einstein)
Create the obvious most evil and unsympathic characters for powerplay and see how many players support this abominations (sometimes even ferociously)?
Create a lack of opportunities for reasonable PvP and so incent toxic gameplay towards other players even more? Lets see how the community deals with it!
"The world is not threatened by the people who are evil, but by those who allow evil to happen." (Albert Einstein)
Hidden? It's about as hidden as a primary star in a system
We're all
Then there would be no gankers. They were all PvE bounty hunters and could explode plenty of npc ships. Its the human player that attract the ganker, not the ship boooom. Want me to repeat my testings with grafical ship booooming differences between npc and players? There are none.
Granted, I should've stated "No, it shows gankers love to blow up CMDRs"
Which they do.
It's just... it's a shame really. Apart from the few, non-organized lone wolf gankers who are hard to identify, it is really a group of, let's be generous, less than maybe 30 players who do massive damage to the open experience, even if it is just the image of open. The best you can say about them is that is is fortunate they hang out with themselves at ShinDez and Sol all the time, but they also tend to ruin CG systems, which is the real damage they do.
Very little reason to block anyone, unless somebody decided ganking anything that flies is fun.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Those who choose to engage in parasitic gameplay need hosts to leech fun from - so they go to places where other players gather.
Imagine how cool it would be if ShinDez and Sol were happy places, and you go there, and there are SWARMS of CMDRs everywhere. Imagine it like going to the mall... yeah, I know. Dream on dreamer.
... anyone who disagrees with the viewpoint of the person posting such...
Which is exactly the same thing as a ganker being indifferent to whatever harm they cause. I was never suggesting either needed to feel bad about anything, just pointing out they are clearly analogous situations.
I'm mostly disappointed in Frontier for abdicating power over instancing to players, as this power is something I'm firmly convinced no player should have. As you've pointed out, Open isn't a curated group of players who are all equally invested in each other's enjoyment. In such a setting, giving players power over others ensures that it will be regularly abused.
Regardless, the ganker in this scenario isn't the one harming my instancing.
The blocker has made a judgement call and that judgement call is, "my wants take precedent over those of anyone and everyone who could be paired with me". I'm not even saying they are wrong, but they are without any shadow of a doubt responsible for the consequences.
I'm a firm believer in the idea that everyone is responsible for their own actions, even if someone further up that chain shares responsibility.
Everyone accepts that blocking is allowed by the rules of the game, there is no double standard in that regard.
And no one I can see, in at least the last several pages of this thread, is claiming that gankers aren't responsible for their ganking.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Yet some seem insistent that there's no connection between the two - and attempt to put all the blame for perceived instancing issues on those who block those who gank.
The blame is not on the blocker, but on two factors:
1) FDev cheaping out by not using TURN to fill instances, but only to keep up a running instance if the last directly reachable peer leaves, instead leaving CGNAT'd players in an empty instance
2) CGNAT'd players playing a peer to peer game (un)aware that their connection type doesn't support this kind of connectivity.
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It's not that there isn't any connection, it's that the buck ultimately stops with the one using the feature/performing the act.
It's no different than the relog to farm materials, or previously, to refresh mission boards. Even the 5-for-1 exploit would be an example (though less analogous as it was against the rules). A fair number of people insisted that these thing were required to make the game's 'grind' more tolerable...which is of course nonsense. No one was forced to engage in any of these things, they chose to do so because it was advantageous.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
I'll agree to disagree - as there's no compelling reason to give the gankers a free pass regarding the consequential effects that their chosen behaviours have on instancing, IMO at least.
Sure there is, just (presumably) not ones you agree with
I've chatted with quite a few, imo I'd rather they be playing a fairly complex social game with a progression stage and the requirement for significant practice & the acquisition of skills than urban street gangs or even just simpler cookie counter games that lack the potential to fire the imagination.
For any given individual there are aspects like social standing amongst their peers, dares & challenges that give bragging rights (notoriety, youtube views) it is a complex ecosystem.
I have tried to find uses for the skills some of these (Deciat Ganker types) for intimidation, assassination & if they are notorious enough, gunboat diplomacy. It doesn't work very well, partly because I'm just not that much of a baddie, mostly (imo) because it's even harder to track a player that isn't wanted than one that is, and the target can just play in group or solo anyway. There is a place for this kind of character in a dystopian setting, as mafia heavies, and the best bit (ime) is that because they all know each other, when my enemy sends someone after me (or threatens to) the PvPers have the excuse to brawl, a reputation to maintain and potentially earn rebuy cash in a more entertaining way than just going mining every few days.
In principle it can work. Not for everyone, but there can be a kind of career path there, or at least a door into the more complex (and more socially accepted among the wider community) world of faction support, powerplay & indirect PvP via the BGS.
If someone has a skill, or at least an inclination towards a particular style of play (killing other players in this case) they can, in theory at least, find a place within an organised group as a specialist. That can give them a sense of fitting in & an opportunity to see how other players specialise in different ways (tenacity, strategy, whatever) & maybe open their eyes to the wider community.
Instead they are treated with contempt & something to be avoided or endured by most & the divide between PvP & PvE communities only widens further.
And if ganking must happen anywhere, Founders is the best (least bad) place for it to happen. No newbies in Shinrata, if you have the permit you've had the game long enough or played it enough to get an Elite rank and if you got that permit by following some helpful guide well welcome to the party, now you have an opportunity to really earn that Elite badge.
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