Questions for community managers regarding VR

[Helvellyn]

So true. I played Half Life Alyx on my knees in the middle of the room until I discovered the teleportation method. This is why as much as I love VR, I think on foot VR in Odyssey would be a bad move, but that's just my personal opinion and I'm only one voice among thousands. I appreciate others feel differently and maybe don't get the nausea but I feel it. Not to the point of blowing chunks but I do sway a little which is hard when moving aiming and stopping suddenly.

I did a bit in Half Life Alyx, but convesely the VR versions of Skyrim and Fallout 4 haven't caused me any problems at all.

At first Elite Dangerous made me feel a bit queasy - spinning around in station as you're turned around for launch was bad, and the hyperspace tunnel made me a little queasy. They don't give me any problems at all now. Originally driving the SRV was unbearable but using the level horizon option made a huge difference to that. A long session of SRV driving in awkward terrain can still get to me a little, but it's not terrible.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Options are good, but it annoys me when people tout VR as the second coming of Christ.

nothing like massive over exaggeration...... however I DO think elite in VR is the most impressive gaming experience I have ever had in 40 years of gaming....
without VR to me elite is just a fairly good but quite shallow space game.... but I've I would have burned out on ages ago.
Not sure why that view annoys you. you are free to agree or disagree, but if it's annoying then maybe just ignore VR threads.

btw I never said anything about making you better at combat. for me I am not bothered if a feature improves my skill or not, I am very much not a competitive gamer I just aim for what gives me the best experience and for me that is VR.

it's like in MSFS or in racing Sims. ... I always turn off all driver and flight assists that are not in the vehicle in question.
yes I crash a fair bit and don't put in great laptimes, but I just enjoy it more.

 

[DrinkyBird]

nothing like massive over exaggeration...... however I DO think elite in VR is the most impressive gaming experience I have ever had in 40 years of gaming....

It befuddles me as to why people think it's so amazing. Even among VR games, it's not particularly great. It was good in 2014, perhaps, because there was little else to compare it to. But ED's VR implementation is obviously tacked on as an afterthought, and an afterthought it has remained almost a decade later, and now we have many more actually VR games that demonstrate the medium so much better.
This quote is a fantastic example of a juxtaposition though.

without VR to me elite is just a fairly good but quite shallow space game.... but I've I would have burned out on ages ago.

Believe it or not, a game is the same regardless of whether it's on one screen or two. The thing that solved my ED burnout was called Odyssey.

Not sure why that view annoys you. you are free to agree or disagree, but if it's annoying then maybe just ignore VR threads.

Because VR fantatics crop up in any thread about ED and preach how amazing and life-changing it supposedly is. It was particularly annoying when I still browsed the ED subreddit, but it still happens on the forum. The only way to avoid it would be to ignore the community altogether - perhaps a good idea, for many other reasons...

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

It befuddles me as to why people think it's so amazing. Even among VR games, it's not particularly great. It was good in 2014, perhaps, because there was little else to compare it to. But ED's VR implementation is obviously tacked on as an afterthought, and an afterthought it has remained almost a decade later, and now we have many more actually VR games that demonstrate the medium so much better.
This quote is a fantastic example of a juxtaposition though.


Believe it or not, a game is the same regardless of whether it's on one screen or two. The thing that solved my ED burnout was called Odyssey.


Because VR fantatics crop up in any thread about ED and preach how amazing and life-changing it supposedly is. It was particularly annoying when I still browsed the ED subreddit, but it still happens on the forum. The only way to avoid it would be to ignore the community altogether - perhaps a good idea, for many other reasons...

you sounds quite bitter. and I don't need you to tell me about what it is that makes me enjoy elite thanks. if it annoys you there is the block poster button.

the seated cockpit VR implementation is fine. there are a few issues but are minor. (the shadows.sometimes play up but that is a 4.x bug and the smoke is wrong when you over heat. but other than that it is fine for me. performance is weak on high end hardware but that is an issue on screen as well as in VR.

most of the vr threads were because VR users were frustrated that the new content was not going to be in VR, which for a game marketed as made for vr sucked. clearly it does not bother you are you are not interested in VR, at least in elite....... but turn it on its head.... imagine if FD decided to go all in on vr and make the new expansions VR only. I imagine players who don't play in VR would be pretty miffed....,.
bottom line this thread was.clearly marked as VR.. so again if VR annoys you just skip the thread.

 

[[VR] SpaceGhostC2C]

You would think they would try to save some of their player base rather than alienating Consoles and VR, they are relying on the PC players entirely now.
...
I am playing again, I quite from lil after they announced no longer going to support VR, I've checked from time to time on my fleet carrier and performance, the last update 14.what ever, did helped. It takes a lot of tweaking to get EDO - VR to run 1/2 way decent, especially if you have high end headset (G2-Index-PriMax)
I use all kinds of tools, Process Lasso, Nv Profile inspector, OpenXR/Open Composite, I've OC'ed my cpu, tightened my timings and tweaked windows all has helped every VR game in return.

 

[Red Rocket]

There is no gaming experience like what VR can offer.

Just mod Skyrim VR to 4k and explore one of the larger caves and you will treated to a gaming experience beyond any.
Take off and land the F/A 18 on a Carrier in DCS VR is spectaculy exciting.

VR take it or not, I don’t care

 

[Moriarte]

The reason folks are "getting ill" running VR games is because they aren't running the best games SUITABLE for VR (IMHO)...

It’s a general health issue too. As in, one needs to be in a very good shape to have 2-3 hours long VR sessions. (While, one doesn’t need to be healthy at all to play at a monitor) And there aren’t that many people, who can boast great health, unfortunately. I exercise every day and still, sitting with 800 grams strapped to my head beyond one hour a day becomes torture. It gets hot, heavy. It’s uncomfortable. These ain’t ray-bans you quickly forget about. And the brain overload effect as I call it. Dozens of people visited my cave to have vr experience. Nausea, headaches, “heavy head”, etc. VR was tricky on all people bar 1 guy. He had no problems at all, a blast of experience, 4 hours+, got drunk while wearing helmet too. This last guy dedicated his whole life to professional sports.

Anecdotes aside, I’d say the most serious roadblock to future of VR is current weight. Eventually, VR will reach the form factor of sunglasses and many more people will jump on bandwagon, prompting devs to offer more VR specialised products. As of now, it’s a very very very niche thing. Jaw-droppingly impressive, but tech is still, just a curious demo for the vast field of gamers.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

the fitness thing is a problem for many games but I don't think so for seated games.
as for headset weight ... some headsets are worse than others, the worst being ones with a battery in like the quest.... but even then I would not think it is the weight of the headset per se but more the weight distribution and the mounting system putting pressure on your head in places it should not.

according to google a human head weighs between 5 and 6.3kg...... I doubt the 200g of a headset makes that much difference for most people IF it is mounted and balanced properly.

if it isn't mounted or balanced properly then I think that may be where issues start.

another thing you have to be really careful about esp when demoing vr to new people is it many people need to develop VR legs. IE start in short stints in games rated as mild vr experiences.
it's probably not a great idea to throw someone new to VR into an intense thing. in real life a lot of people rolling down a mountain in an srv at 60mph would feel pretty dizzy and sick at the bottom.
stuff like Lucky's tale and Moss are good 1st VR experiences... as well as elite and maybe a car sim but only if it is slow moving , not going full speed down a road or speed docking in a station.

not saying that is the case for everyone however and lighter / more comfy is always welcome.

 

[Cmdr Snuffler]

nothing like massive over exaggeration...... however I DO think elite in VR is the most impressive gaming experience I have ever had in 40 years of gaming....
without VR to me elite is just a fairly good but quite shallow space game.... but I've I would have burned out on ages ago.
Not sure why that view annoys you. you are free to agree or disagree, but if it's annoying then maybe just ignore VR threads.

Same here. VR + ED "ruined" gaming on monitors for me.
I'm still running a 980ti and a CV1 and everything still works fine (new build coming in the next month or so...Reverb G2 worth investing in?)

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

G2 is a difficult one. I love mine and it is the V1. the V2 is better still (better facial insert and slightly improved controller tracking) the image quality is great and a step up from the quest 2 and certainly the CV1 and the comfort and sound is industry leading.
OTOH controller tracking is not as good as quest 2 (and certainly not cv1) - not an issue for cockpit games -. the field of view is right on the edge of what I feel is acceptable now...

I am sticking with my G2 and skipping this generation of headsets BUT if I was buying new now and not wanting to pay over a grand I would be looking closely at the Pico 4. (bear in mind not tried one yet)
watch vrflightsim guy on YouTube he has great experience of all the modern headsets as well as the G2 and quest on a range of pcs (he has 1080ti, 3090 and 4090 GPUs)

I have a fair experience of different headsets

rift DK1, DK2, CV1, quest2, Vive and reverb g2 as well as dabbled briefly with a few others ... the reverb G2 is without doubt the best seated PCVR headset I have used. IF we got the US prices of last month I would say it's a no brainer purchase.. but like I said at the start... now at UK RRP..... I am not so sure.

dont discount the quest 2. its a harder sell now since oculus/facebook/meta (its getting as long as LGBT+XYZ etc ) but its still a decent PCVR headset if configured correctly and in stand alone mode there are some great apps too..... playing cable free is a great experience. alas unlike the quest 1 which worked ok so long as not direct bright sunlight, i cant get the quest 2 to controllers track outside which is as shame. playing VR games in garden scale VR was a whole new level of cool. the Quest 2 also has a better image quality than the Rift CV1........... but not as good as the Reverb G2 so it depends where your priorities lie.

 

[Jack Winter]

the seated cockpit VR implementation is fine. there are a few issues but are minor. (the shadows.sometimes play up but that is a 4.x bug and the smoke is wrong when you over heat. but other than that it is fine for me. performance is weak on high end hardware but that is an issue on screen as well as in VR.

I imagine that the bugs that cause shadows acting like morphing blobs and the occasional flashing of light when there shouldn't be light, is extra annoying in VR as they'll probably act differently on each eye. Once they get the problems with lighting and shadows better in hand, it ought to improve the VR experience.

It seems to me that on foot VR is a completely different kettle of fish compared to the seated experience, so seeing the state of odyssey it's probably better that they chose to forego implementing that. As they said maybe at a later stage, though I don't know how much hope I'd hold out...

What I don't understand is the grey "burka", couldn't they render your entire field of visions instead?

 

[[VR] Bulbulunufus]

you sounds quite bitter. and I don't need you to tell me about what it is that makes me enjoy elite thanks. if it annoys you there is the block poster button.

the seated cockpit VR implementation is fine. there are a few issues but are minor. (the shadows.sometimes play up but that is a 4.x bug and the smoke is wrong when you over heat. but other than that it is fine for me. performance is weak on high end hardware but that is an issue on screen as well as in VR.

most of the vr threads were because VR users were frustrated that the new content was not going to be in VR, which for a game marketed as made for vr sucked. clearly it does not bother you are you are not interested in VR, at least in elite....... but turn it on its head.... imagine if FD decided to go all in on vr and make the new expansions VR only. I imagine players who don't play in VR would be pretty miffed....,.
bottom line this thread was.clearly marked as VR.. so again if VR annoys you just skip the thread.

Yeah I don't get it. It's like one step back from the difference between looking at a picture of a place and being there. Of course it feels like a deeper experience, and makes it easier to accept any shallowness in the gameplay. It's the difference between feeling you are in a place and feeling you are looking at a rendering of a place.

 

[BigBANGtheory [VR]]

It befuddles me as to why people think it's so amazing. Even among VR games, it's not particularly great. It was good in 2014, perhaps, because there was little else to compare it to. But ED's VR implementation is obviously tacked on as an afterthought, and an afterthought it has remained almost a decade later, and now we have many more actually VR games that demonstrate the medium so much better.

Its because of what it can be not was it is today... that drives the interest in the topic that desire for Elite to be the best VR space experience and gameplay.

When you think about it an awful lot of Elite's features feel like they have been tacked on as an afterthought, its been like one MVP after the next I think that is why there are many sources of friction with players across a range of topics be that VR, Engineering, Power Play, Exploration the list goes on...

Hopefully the community managers have had a nice holiday season break and can take a moment to look at what is a perfectly reasonable and civil question.

 

[Arioch]

What I don't understand is the grey "burka", couldn't they render your entire field of visions instead?

The on-foot vanity suite is in full VR, so it’s possible to position the camera to give a sort-of first person view - but aiming is very hit and miss and interactions are not possible.

The only thing I’ve read about VREDO since the initial announcements was when one of the CMs mentioned discussing changing the grey colour (a player request) but nothing has happened since.

I’m currently playing Cyberpunk 2077 with a VR mod but in a monoscopic view - so imagine the the screen wrapped around your head but still with 6 degree-of-freedom head movements. There is no depth perception as such but there is still a definite feeling of 3Dness, like closing one eye in real life. What I was quite surprised to find was a complete lack of stomach-lurching feelings while playing seating and with smooth rotation - as well as all the forced movement animations the game imposes. I’ve got strong VR legs but forced movements in 3D VR still give me a wuuuurppp moment - but this is completely absent when the view is mono.

I’d be happy if we got any options to alter the virtual flatscreen like many VR media players have - I’d have it filling my view, slightly curved, black surround, and hopefully tied to headlook in a jiffy

My question (if allowed) for the CMs would be regarding bug fixes - we were told that the current level of VR is what we’re getting for the foreseeable future but outstanding issues would be sorted out…and there’s been a distinct lack of a VR section in the Update notes for a while now. There are some horrible headache-inducing VR issues (some still going for over a year now) like flickering/disappearing shadows and view-jumps when jumping to SuperCruise - so are these in with a chance for this year’s Updates?

 

[evanevery]

...most of the vr threads were because VR users were frustrated that the new content was not going to be in VR, which for a game marketed as made for vr sucked.

This is simply NOT true. I would propose that most of the "VR Users" couldn't care less about the new content which gets you out of the cockpit ("space legs")... I might even solicit that most "well established" VR fans don't typically play ANYTHING that requires first person motion (as it simply doesn't work very well in VR). At least that's my case...

I know I simply don't care about it. Never did and never will. I mistakenly hit a key to get out of my cockpit ONCE and then struggled like a fish out of water to find out how to get back into the safety of my fish bowl... ;-)

Anyway, I think you'll find that most of the folks complaining about the current state of Odyssey in VR has everything to do with the greatly increased processing demands of the new graphics engine and the various VR Specific bugs that were introduced along with it.

As others have said, there really isn't any additional work required to RENDER modern games (like Elite) in a VR environment. (Modern games already define objects as 3D entities in the underlying graphics engine(s) even if you only play in 2D. The VR tools (SteamVR and Headset Specific Utilities like PiTool) then extract the underlying data into a stereoscopic view). The real work to make a game playable in VR is about how to provide a user interface which is both supportive of associated head motion (i.e. Panel Focus) and also relatively "blind" keyboard/control entries. ...and Elite already has all that! It has had that since Legacy...

The issue with Odyssey is an underlying graphics engine which is much less optimized for performance than its predecessor (which only amplifies the challenges of double duty required for VR) and a few nagging bugs (like text flashed in your face coming in/out of SC). 4090 (and even 3090) cards on fairly stout hardware can make up for the increased demands imposed by the new graphics engine but only the Devs can fix the bugs...

 

[Rat Catcher]

I might even solicit that most "well established" VR fans don't typically play ANYTHING that requires first person motion (as it simply doesn't work very well in VR).

First define "Well Established"...
I have only had my own VR for 5 years or so.... Probably just a casual on whatever scale you are using...

But, most of the VR games I play are 1st person motion... Fallout 4 VR, Skyrim VR, Half-Life: Alyx, After the Fall, Saints & Sinners etc. etc.

Maybe you just meant that you don't do them, which is fine...

 

[He$$eeTant]

Half life Alyx, Walking dead (saints and sinners) two classic FPS games. Like ratty I’ve only had VR for about 5 years. I would say that there is a big challenge between the “feel” in ED between Ship, SRV and Legs. I believe it’s hard to distinguish between SRV and Legs.

I do like the legs 3rd person VR view but as said above it’s hard to aim and you can’t interact so it’s quite limited.

 

[evanevery]

First define "Well Established"...
I have only had my own VR for 5 years or so.... Probably just a casual on whatever scale you are using...

But, most of the VR games I play are 1st person motion... Fallout 4 VR, Skyrim VR, Half-Life: Alyx, After the Fall, Saints & Sinners etc. etc.

Maybe you just meant that you don't do them, which is fine...

I appreciate your perspective. Maybe I'm misrepresenting the community. It would be an interesting exercise to gather the metrics on how the VR community uses their equipment. What games are being used, how many hours, what equipment, and how long each user has had their gear. I don't want to discount someone's personal enjoyment of FPS games in VR, but for me, that type of an application is simply more of a party gimmick than an immersive VR experience.

5 Years is plenty of time to be "Well Established" in your VR tastes. I was just attempting to differntiate the folks who fire up a shiny new VR rig on Christmas morning and try and play everything available vs folks who have been doing it long enough to appreciate what works and have found their own personal niche. Perhaps I'm wrong in my assumptions...

For what its worth, and at least from my perspective, the VR issues with Odyssey have absolutely nothing to do with the new content and everything to do with the new graphics engine...

 

[OHMSS]

Because VR fantatics crop up in any thread about ED and preach how amazing and life-changing it supposedly is. It was particularly annoying when I still browsed the ED subreddit, but it still happens on the forum. The only way to avoid it would be to ignore the community altogether - perhaps a good idea, for many other reasons...

Fanatic? I said I like VR. I'm positive about it because I like it.

 

[evanevery]

Because VR fantatics crop up in any thread about ED and preach how amazing and life-changing it supposedly is. It was particularly annoying when I still browsed the ED subreddit, but it still happens on the forum. The only way to avoid it would be to ignore the community altogether - perhaps a good idea, for many other reasons...

Yeah... So what's up with that?

Maybe folks keep "cropping up" because its really good, they like it, and would like to share that info on the forums?

While it might be hard to imagine someone saying something positive for a change, maybe you should just ignore threads with "VR" in their titles if they "annoy" you for some reason?