It also makes one wonder, how many of those who voted for the expanded scope are still around, and should a vote from a community that maybe no longer exists be used to direct the game for a community whose idea of what should happen may have changed enormously. But you know what it actually demonstrates very clearly to everyone, you should not let your game targets and roadmaps be dictated by the community because while many a person is quite smart, people enmasse are generally quite stupid....I believe that's a paraphrase from either Terry Pratchett or Douglas Adams.....but it does apply to all games, listen to them sure, take their ideas on board sure, don't let them tell you what to do!
Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12
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It also makes one wonder, how many of those who voted for the expanded scope are still around, and should a vote from a community that maybe no longer exists be used to direct the game for a community whose idea of what should happen may have changed enormously. But you know what it actually demonstrates very clearly to everyone, you should not let your game targets and roadmaps be dictated by the community because while many a person is quite smart, people enmasse are generally quite stupid....I believe that's a paraphrase from either Terry Pratchett or Douglas Adams.....but it does apply to all games, listen to them sure, take their ideas on board sure, don't let them tell you what to do!
Buy an Idris!
The "but we voted for delays to expand the scope" thing some of them say is just an excuse, that was never a choice and zero people voted for it. In the actual post, Chris said that more money would result in delivering sooner rather than later:
"Finally there is one very important element – the more funds we can raise in the pre-launch phase, the more we can invest in additional content (more ships, characters etc.) and perhaps more importantly we can apply greater number of resources to the various tasks to ensure we deliver the full functionality sooner rather than later."
And in the follow-up about it, Chris again reiterated that adding additional stretch goals would not hold up the game:
"But both types of goals are carefully considered — we don’t commit to adding features that would hold up the game’s ability to go “live” in a fully functional state."
The community's never been in the driver's seat, they've been taken for a ride. When they start acting like they're in control and demand things, even things they paid for like a monthly town hall with Chris, they get stonewalled or browbeat.
Viajero
Volunteer Moderator
That is missing the point a bit. The community can not decide anything. CIG was and still is 100% accountable for the direction and management of the development.
What CIG did was simply to put up a poll in their forums. Which is not a contractual bind nor a legal commitment by any party of any kind to change scope. Especially when forum goers in any game community are just but a small fraction of the total population, let alone a decision capable majority of any kind. CIG did that poll just so to maintain some public relations semblance of legitimacy but the fact is the only party here that is 100% responsible for the decision to add more scope and prolong development is CIG.
A "poll" was neither required nor sufficient to justify any decision on enlarging scope and delay release. If CIG had a minimal sense of ethics they should have publicly stated, and also individually communicated to all backers (a big pop up screen when starting the game or some such), a dedicated announcement detailing the changes in terms, namely the proposed upcoming scope increases and the likely time delays, especially when compared to the dates already announced in Kickstarter and other announcements at the time. All in layman terms.
Then ask everyone to accept a new agreement and explicitly offer a full refund in case you didnt like it.
But instead first CIG simply decided to change the terms unilaterally, increase scope and delay release, and then it updated the ToS to suit that plan. By accepting the new ToS a player was in essence asked to give up his right to ask for a refund due to CIG´s unilateral change of terms (wether that holds or not under legal scrutiny is a different matter). Given most players never read the ToS and would have never typically realized that, CIG got easily away with it.
CIG could have very well delivered all the promised content at the time in 2014 and then gradually build upon it more scope from there on. But it didnt. It was all 100% on CIG to change it.
It is a prime example imo of CIG's top tier ability to manipulate the narrative and bamboozle backers.
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Remember when CIG put up a poll asking backers which features they should focus on next? Remember how Exploration was by far the most requested feature? Remember how CIG then ignored the poll and made mining the next big feature?
If you are going to do a poll, at least then honour the results of the poll!
And remember how CIG did a poll asking if they should do full planets rather than limited landing zones, although by doing this there would be adding a bazillion hours to the development time? No, because CIG never asked the community as to whether they should do what was probably going to be the single biggest change of scope to the game, cost of development, and timeline.
A good while ago i went through an old thread full of people defending CIG and checked their post histories. A fair few accounts showed no interest in SC any more. Quite a few were dead accounts, no recent post history and a couple were deleted accounts. A handful were still loyal backers, still fully believing that CIG are on track to make the BDSSE.
Mike flip flops more than a pair of the flippiest floppiest flip flops on the beach!
Viajero
Volunteer Moderator
Apparently he is giving up his job to become a full time streamer soon. He just can’t afford to lose his SC viewers. Although he could go full Yamiks and actually keep a certain SC audience.
I suppose its like male angler fish that need a host.
For me though I'd look in the mirror and feel a tingle of regret- it pays the bills but.....feels wrong. Like Love Island.
Viajero
Volunteer Moderator
This is amazing, sad and hilarious. All at the same time.
Let's make something clear...marketing isn't a democracy and Ci~G were never some kind of weird hippy commune, they're so brokenly capitalist in their marketing strategies, Karl Marx would write another book if he were still alive... there was never a real poll conducted. The entire concocted drama was Ci~G's marketing team creating the illusion of agency or choice to the potential and current customer base for a sales oriented decision already made internally, nothing more.
Generally, the majority of backers saw it for what it was at the time, a marketing drive...hence the 'don't care/didn't vote' attitude and the utterly contemptuous 7-10% turnout or participation...if there ever was such a figure at all. It's not exactly verifiable by any means outside of Ci~G's completely imaginary polling results...is it?
The pretend poll wasn't carried out by an independent arbitration service outside of Ci~G's marketing team for one, it was merely a message posted on a customer facing marketing tool, namely the forum, at that time. Even if the actual results of such a blatant marketing drive was completely 100% negative, the posted 'result' would still have appeared as a narrow 55% 'victory' for the sales team regardless of actual or imaginary participation figures.
"It was a close thing, but you've all decided to let us actively fleece you for more funding!"
Did anyone ever really think this 'poll' was real? If so, I know a few politicians that would be interested to hear from you
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What do you need to deliver mining like SC has (which is very basic and bugged), quick and easy answer: practically nothing, and everything basic.
What do you need to deliver exploration even if it was as basic and bugged as that mining? quick and simple answer: places to explore like, for example, other star systems. And what do you need for that? what you have been promising for 10 years and you are unable to develop; server meshing and the consequent Jump Points and the rest of the star systems.
With that you have the reason why CIG obviously ignored their own polls, and why the development of SC/SQ42 is a shame; they have no capacity to develop what they have been promising for years, and they can only keep the carrot in front of the donkey through rivers, caves, volumetric clouds, and a lot of chromatic aberration.
And ship interiors, lots of ships, bigger and bigger, more and more expensive, more and more useless, with no gameplay associated... buggeds, with unnecessary and pathetic elevators inside and with a gravity and physics system that puts to shame the first ZX Spectrum games...
That's what's important about CIG's polls, and that's the real value of any word, quote or promise made by any of the liars that work for that company; from CR to Jared, passing by Zyloh (aka, "I have already played the whole SQ42")
"Finally there is one very important element – the more funds we can raise in the pre-launch phase, the more we can invest in additional content (more ships, characters etc.) and perhaps more importantly we can apply greater number of resources to the various tasks to ensure we deliver the full functionality sooner rather than later."
Liars!!!
What outrages me the most is that fans don't have the ability to see how they are continually being lied, fooled and manipulated through pipe dreams.
Speaking for the immense raft of laughable idiots...
Many of us believe in the actual devs behind all this tomfoolery, albeit equally outraged by the offensively marketing driven Empire of Roberts....but that's certainly not always the case. There is something behind all the marketing drivel, something almost tangible that we play day in and day out regardless of the persistent ridicule and scoffery offered generally from friends and forumites worldwide.
We're not all gullible idiots, that's too convenient and trite as an explaination...Most of the folk I've known for many years who are involved in this thing, folks who've spent ridiculous amounts of money funding it over those long and tiresome years are by no means the image of gullible idiocy presented as the norm outside of star citizen circles...far from it...so what's the formula here?
It's hard to pin down a common denominator when it comes to backers that's fer sure...especially when you have almost polar opposites appearing on this very forum...myself and the Petite Fourmi being a case in point...
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Yeah, you're know you're being taken for a ride
Although not sure that's actually better
Speaking for the immense raft of laughable idiots...
Many of us believe in the actual devs behind all this tomfoolery, albeit equally outraged by the offensively marketing driven Empire of Roberts....but that's certainly not always the case. There is something behind all the marketing drivel, something almost tangible that we play day in and day out regardless of the persistent ridicule and scoffery offered generally from friends and forumites worldwide.
We're not all gullible idiots, that's too convenient and trite as an explaination...Most of the folk I've known for many years who are involved in this thing, folks who've spent ridiculous amounts of money funding it over those long and tiresome years are by no means the image of gullible idiocy presented as the norm outside of star citizen circles...far from it...so what's the formula here?
It's hard to pin down a common denominator when it comes to backers that's fer sure...especially when you have almost polar opposites appearing on this very forum...myself and the Petite Fourmi being a case in point...
Lots of people who are not gullible idiots end up funding various projects that will eventually fail to achieve what was promised. People like to dream. And mr Roberts really CAN sell dreams. Delivery part is what fails
Over the years I've run into exceptional posts where I thought time would reveal a tale, so I've checked in every so often to see how it's progressed. I'm far too lazy to make some story out of them ala Sunk Cost Galaxy, so it's just my little menagerie. For example, you might have seen this one before it was updated to include 2019. I'll blank these names as I don't want people to focus on this being someone in particular, this is just one passenger of a crowdfunding voyage.
I've certainly backed a few over the years...Hellion, Gunner Heat PC...plus lots of early access, crowd funded or patreon based projects like War of Rights and quite a few others...it must be a Mole menopause thing. We won't mention the motorbikesLots of people who are not gullible idiots end up funding various projects that will eventually fail to achieve what was promised. People like to dream. And mr Roberts really CAN sell dreams. Delivery part is what fails