Update 15 Thargoid Scout damage.

[Wisho]

Crystal clear, big thanks again.
I made 2 screenshots out of this, annotated them and added them and the link to your footage and your post to the issue tracker.
"We don't know" is no more an acceptable answer

BTW it's now a detail and maybe it's perspective but the two missiles also look big and small. Put that on the checklist for my next Thargoid (unwanted) encounter.

 

[Greybeard Seawolf]

I can't believe that this change to the scouts was intentional. I consider myself to be a reasonably experienced AX fight with over 9800 scouts and 150 Interceptors destroyed and I'm getting minced out there right now. With so much of the current game arc being devoted to the Thargoid War FDev want to encourage players to take part not drive them away.

 

[Wisho]

Wait, what, people are still playing the AXCZ's war - I can't believe it
[...]
Why doesn't everyone just stop until they fix it!!! If no-one goes to the war, they will have to.

I totally agree with you. Anyone who cares a tiny little bit about general gameplay and E: D being a living MMO and non-hardcore player access, whether you are able to fight back or not :

Please quit the war at once.

Temporarily, up to the fix.

Well, if no fix comes quickly, the only solution I can see is, I hate to say this, the one that worked for the "heat meta" : a crew of players started brutally ganking every other one with it (at that time PvP was the concern) until FD finally fixed it.
We'll see the DCoH stats on Thargsday but I expect a sensible drop, when player grief makes the war come to a halt it will make FD move.
Although I'm actively following and taking part in AXI's directions and actions, I'm ready to be labeled as "Conspirator" if the player-base's common good requires it.

 

[Ned Flandalorian]

when player grief makes the war come to a halt it will make FD move.

It won't. We've already seen what happens: the requirements get tweaked to match actual engagement counts, which ends up causing nonsensical issues (like entire systems being winnable by a single dedicated tissue sampling cmdr).

 

[Wisho]

nonsensical issues (like entire systems being winnable by a single dedicated tissue sampling cmdr).

Unfortunately it's not like the scouts were the only issue in the war or in E: D.
Neither like kicking players out of issues fixed them.

I'm convinced FD really needs game designers to better include player's advice - or maybe even players themselves. Forever the same question : do they play their own game ? Who can afford not to and dev in the blind ?

The overpowering of tissue sampling sure is another one that could use a real fix. I'd like very much to meet the person who thought a 1-minute passive waiting for a limpet to do its job could value as much as the killing of an interceptor. The fix sounds easy at first : make a sample account for like 1/10th of an interceptor instead of 1. But we don't have a clue at why it isn't implemented yet. No way I can believe that scouts overbuff is an intentional response to the overvalued samples, makes neither lore logic nor dev-technical sense.
Then again : it is also every player's choice to go either the too-easy or the fun way. I always choose the latter one - granted I can.

 

[Pville_Piper]

No way I can believe that scouts overbuff is an intentional response to the overvalued samples, makes neither lore logic nor dev-technical sense.

Sorry, I believe it was intended, but too heavy handed. It seems to be the way they do things.

Then again : it is also every player's choice to go either the too-easy or the fun way. I always choose the latter one - granted I can.

I prefer the fun way unless there is no fun way...

 

[Wlfric]

Unfortunately it's not like the scouts were the only issue in the war or in E: D.
Neither like kicking players out of issues fixed them.

I'm convinced FD really needs game designers to better include player's advice - or maybe even players themselves. Forever the same question : do they play their own game ? Who can afford not to and dev in the blind ?

The overpowering of tissue sampling sure is another one that could use a real fix. I'd like very much to meet the person who thought a 1-minute passive waiting for a limpet to do its job could value as much as the killing of an interceptor. The fix sounds easy at first : make a sample account for like 1/10th of an interceptor instead of 1. But we don't have a clue at why it isn't implemented yet. No way I can believe that scouts overbuff is an intentional response to the overvalued samples, makes neither lore logic nor dev-technical sense.
Then again : it is also every player's choice to go either the too-easy or the fun way. I always choose the latter one - granted I can.

it's not so simple as waiting 1 minute. Research limpets are bugged. Have you tried it? Launch 8 limpets. Maybe you get one success. Maybe. If you're crazy lucky, 2. It's far easier to kill them than to sample them

 

[Wisho]

Yes I did try it, I even designed and built a Clipper to ease the task in solo mode.
That's my biggest rant about how FD "solved" this bug by ignoring it : players are not evenly facing it. Every player gets a constant but different success rate, the Far God knows why.
I consistently get a sample >50% of the time. 64 limpets, bar a handful of repair ones, I come home with 25-30 samples. Varying by the unit and consistent across several tries. Some players reported >90%.

"Simple", yes it is, much more than (although I love) dealing with Palpatine, caustic, EMP, normal and panic shields, regen vs dps vs heat, peanut-sized hearts...
Provided the scouts can be somehow dealt with : pick a clops, get rid of the first swarm or go planetary, orbit the interceptor beaming it or let the NPCs keep its aggro and follow it, and spam limpets at it. On hearing "knock knock" open the cargo bay for a second. Out of limpets before enrage so high wake back home or directly to the rescue ship if in range.

Before U15 it required a bit of timing in solo to punch a rogue scout and repair between volleys of limpets, but now scouts come in 10-packs and/or a single one takes out 20% hull before I can turn around, it's just borked.

That never solved the problem of overvalued samples as having a wing combining sampler(s) and scout-hunter(s) keeps the thing working and boring.
Can't get my hands back on this video where dozens of ships are literally skinning a lonely poor Cyclops, but buffing scouts wouldn't change a peanut to it, and I don't think torture should be the way to win a system.

 

[Aleks Zuno]

For the moment, I suggest not worrying too much about war progress or how much each type of activity helps to defend a system! Completely regardless of its effect on war progress, it has been the quite consistent case that many Commanders like to defend ports if they can, and the Scout problem means that most now can not. I say this because:

• Invasions, which are unique in featuring port defence, have been by far the most popular systems from the start.
• A lot of Commanders have been, and still are, content to defend ports with no prospect of completing the system.
• Now that we have progress reports in journal broadcasts which reveals over-completion, just this cycle alone...
  • Holvandalla finished recently, with 116%
  • HIP 26688 is at 131%
  • Hez Ur, which does not even have a planetary port and I was worried would be ignored from last cycle, has reached 163%
  • Hyades Sector AV-O b6-5 has reached 191% and is still climbing

Scouts are causing far more problems than war activity balance; Maelstrom access in a Maelstrom-appropriate vessel, for a start. Note that M. Hadad is over 40,000 light-seconds away from HIP 30377.

The important thing at the moment is simply for the relevant Frontier staff to become aware that Scouts have doubled weapons, where the extra set is also more powerful than the original. From that video I posted:

• Scouts have two different main weapons.
• Scouts are using two Caustic missiles.
• Scouts probably have a permanent Berserker effect, or some similar problem:
  • That Marauder uses missiles without any Berserker nearby.
  • If enabled in settings, I understand that Scout weapons now cause an increased amount of camera shake as with a Berserker present.

 

[Wisho]

Good point - our main concern is Scouts have genetically self-evolved way beyond design. Govs are keeping in touch with the Thargoid Motherbrain but it seems to buy time and struggle keeping the internal situation in control. Quote one well-introduced and reliable Thargoid source :

Beyond those irritating Humans, the risk cannot be taken this "new Scouts race" could acquire self-conscience and secede, or worse, fire back to its breeder - Us.

We're approaching the no-return point where Humans and Guardians are defeated and Motherbrain is tied up, our only hope to save the galaxy is to call upon the Creator, aka FD, to... well, dunno, do something.

After all, maybe that's just what happened to the Guardians ? Suddenly bugged scouts rushed them and other Thargoids ran away hiding ?

 

[RaketeMike]

Maybe the other Thargoids will also get stronger in the further course of the war? We start infiltrating their Maelstroms and to groom their Hive Ships - which they both don’t like - now they are sending out stronger variants in return, starting with scouts. Do we have to expect Interceptors with two or more main cannons?

 

[Oaktree]

Now that would be pretty! Interceptors buffed in the same ratio as scouts were!

 

[Elpapo]

Scouts have two different main weapons.

Yep, thier 4 burst "extra" weapon, seems like something that on par what basilisk uses as main weapon. That alone it given these scouts essentially about 200-300% dmg increase, as they still use thier old weapon in same time, and this is definetly shady.

I dont buy that if its a "intended" change, scouts should be not able to dealing more dps than interceptors.

Remove that 4 burst weapon from them, and they wont be as much "problematic" even if they would still spawn with all buffs.

 

[Wisho]

Except all interceptors' cannon can quite easily be dodged unless flying a hull-tank brick. Not that much due to the cannon itself, but thanks to the (intended) way the bug uses it : slow turn rate and even slower thrust, messy aiming to cold targets, not directed to specific modules, and so on.
Try dodging the new scout's cannon by yourself : for 1v1 you'll need perma-boosting in all directions with a fast ship, 1v2 one of them will always hit its mark - and hard, and on critical modules.

 

[BDelacroix]

If this increased damage was on all of the thargoid creatures, I'd believe more that it was intentional.

 

[Kira Goto]

Random thought :

Titan turrets were supposed to do damage as the Scouts currently are. As I hear it now, their output seems to be quite pitiful, but I’ve also not been shot at by them myself so feel free to correct that statement if you have.

(Really though, it feels like Frontier has an issue making cap ship guns pack a punch unless it focuses its entire broadside on a single ship. Which rarely seems to happen.)

 

[Uiros Ueramos]

Good point - our main concern is Scouts have genetically self-evolved way beyond design. Govs are keeping in touch with the Thargoid Motherbrain but it seems to buy time and struggle keeping the internal situation in control. Quote one well-introduced and reliable Thargoid source :

We're approaching the no-return point where Humans and Guardians are defeated and Motherbrain is tied up, our only hope to save the galaxy is to call upon the Creator, aka FD, to... well, dunno, do something.

After all, maybe that's just what happened to the Guardians ? Suddenly bugged scouts rushed them and other Thargoids ran away hiding ?

Maybe the other Thargoids will also get stronger in the further course of the war? We start infiltrating their Maelstroms and to groom their Hive Ships - which they both don’t like - now they are sending out stronger variants in return, starting with scouts. Do we have to expect Interceptors with two or more main cannons?

Are you sure you really want to use lore to explain a developer blunder?

It is a BUG !!!

 

[Wisho]

If using lore can have developer blunder fixed, yeah I'm ready for that.
Y'all noticed my post was hoping to tackle [FD's] lore sensitivity with a bit of irony, suggesting even the Thargoids would fear these bugged scouts as they would already have seen them wipe out the Guardians million years ago, and only FD's devs could now save us, them, the galaxy. Well, humor, never mind.

 

[angusmadmac1]

If using lore can have developer blunder fixed, yeah I'm ready for that.
Y'all noticed my post was hoping to tackle [FD's] lore sensitivity with a bit of irony, suggesting even the Thargoids would fear these bugged scouts as they would already have seen them wipe out the Guardians million years ago, and only FD's devs could now save us, them, the galaxy. Well, humor, never mind.

It was actually the guardian constructs (AI) that wiped out the guardians . It decided that the guardians were worse than the Thargoids .

 

[Wisho]

So that's it : a Guardian construct saw a revolted scout pass by, thought "Oh bummer, while dealing with the Guardians we forgot the Thargoids" and hailed it.
S : Hey ! Y'know, we're getting in trouble with those metal boxes, humans they call themselves, they tear us scouts to pieces and the Titans don't give a heart...
G : Yo, we saw them too, they don't look so cunning, they keep coming here to get the same old outdated bummer blueprints again and again. Lulz.
S : ... and they shred us with that. Can you help ?
G : Huh, lemme see... Wow wow wow, you can't spit sht. Go grow something else, evolve it from your bros - but don't tell your Titan, or it will one-shot digest you. And don't go alone. Spread the word, spread the genes. Come back when you're done with humans, we'll deal with the Titans and Motherbrain and then ye king of the Galaxy, man.
S : Yay, be right back !
G : (sigh) stupid as the others...