Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

For sure you'll not have this sort of thing and nobody ask for it. It's a nightmare to code in a game with nested gravity vectors ! It's hard enough to do it with just nested 'flat' layers.
I don't think anyone asked for drink physics or bedsheet physics or sandworms or toilet malfunction or hello kitty bike or ... but CIG still created them.
Yeah I am actually a backer from 2013 and still have that Origin ship 315p so yeah I jump in from time 2 time like every month or so to check what's new and usually after 30min of running around and delivering a packages In glitched and broken world I pretty much get bored especially when I see bugs that are been in game for years and still no one cares to fix them....so I guess have no idea if salvaging is possible for us mortal citizens or is it there just for whales/evocaties testing....but also to be honest I could not care any less....
According to CIG, players knows what the bugs are and avoids them so there's no reason to waste time and effort in fixing them right now. It's the mentality of a company that wants to deliver a polished experience other AAA couldn't deliver.
 
Hmm, rotating space stations in ED do it though, the concourse in an Orbis is effectively doing just that, you have people walking around on the concourse who can look out and see spaceships coming in and flying out through the slot. The lack of ability to jump is probably due to the difficulty in modelling the physics accurately because yes, that's really difficult, but the interior of an Orbis where the concourse is, is effectively a ring enclosed at both ends instead of a roof to stop the atmosphere leaking out.
The technical difficulty is lighter if the concourse and the outside can't exchange items in real time. The engine just has to manage the windows in/out view, no other parameters. Real trouble start if you want an object to go from one to another in real time (which SC do).

I've read from here that you can see other players passing the slot from the concourse but I will be pleased to see it in video. From a tech point, I'm also wondering if the slot could be a loading screen disguised. Can you shoot a missile through the slot ?
 
As said before, I make predictions only here and purely for your pleasure and give you some stuff to discuss about. Enjoy as you wish, it's like my gift for your dedication about SC.

Yeah but that's not actually true is it. You've spent your entire time in this thread making predictions about CIG's technical advances, assuming that those predictions will play out, and that they signal development is going well. 'Industrialization' of tools leading to an outpouring of planets and systems. "Server Meshing coming 🤘". Etc etc. And that's when you're not engaged in comedy hypothetical one-up-manship. ('Game X is bad because it doesn't have Vulkan'. Even though SC doesn't have Vulkan...). Yadda yadda.

It's the majority of what you do in this thread. It's just funny how often you're errant in the process ;)

Your official predictions with dates are just a handy summary of that more pervasive wrongness ¯\(ツ)/¯
 
Last edited:
You've missed the subject. I talk about nested 'technical spaces' with different 'gravity' (aka vectors are different between the child and parent spaces).
Prey as separate spaces, not nested ones. You switch from one space with gravity to another one without gravity using a standard hub where the game change vectors and other stuff with a loading screen. These spaces are not nested, the hub is not dynamic and don't allow each space to communicate (you can't throw an object from the first space to the second). It's the simple way to do it, the engine don't have to manage the change on the fly like SC need to do. In SC you can have whenever and wherever you want a gravity vector toward x, one step further a null vector for gravity and the next one a vector toward y (when you quit a ship for another one in space). And in this case, the x and y vectors are enclosed in 'spaces' inside the 'space' that had a null vector, they are nested.

What a load of absolute twaddle. The whole point of SC's famous "local physics grids" is that it isolates the physics calculations for different frames of reference; planets, ships, etc. You keep saying "nested" as if that makes any difference. It wasn't done because it's a clever, sophisticated solution, it was a quick and dirty hack to get the ship interiors working within CryEngine. and it comes with all the limitations you seem to think only other games suffer from. There have been plenty of examples of SC struggling with things like shooting out of a moving ship and the projectile suddenly changing direction as it switched between grids, the vomit-inducing flips when you exit a space ship for EVA, and the hilarious "force reactions" that they've tried to patch on top to create the illusion of unified physics, instead of a seated pilot experiencing G-effects while mobile passengers experience nothing. They might have cleaned some of it up over the last decade, but they haven't made the sort of fundamental changes you seem to think.

For sure you'll not have this sort of thing and nobody ask for it. It's a nightmare to code in a game with nested gravity vectors ! It's hard enough to do it with just nested 'flat' layers.

No it's not. You just calculate a radial "gravity" vector instead of linear, for objects in the station's grid. Seriously, Roberts was bleating on about physics grids for years (before he dropped off the radar), none of this should be news.
 
I've read from here that you can see other players passing the slot from the concourse but I will be pleased to see it in video. From a tech point, I'm also wondering if the slot could be a loading screen disguised. Can you shoot a missile through the slot ?
Yes, you can see people passing through the slot. I've seen it myself.
And you could definitely shoot a missile through the slot too, but drawing weapons near the station isn't a really good idea, since you'll get a 30s ( don't remember exactly the timer) timer warning to store them back before getting anihilated by the station's turret
 
'Industrialization' of tools leading to an outpouring of planets and systems. "Server Meshing coming 🤟".
I still believe it. Seeing rastar in action in the last ISC while 2 years ago CIG was only able to create POI 100% the hard way is just a proof of that.
The outpouring of planets and systems is not here yet, but it will be in the future (no date).
 
What a load of absolute twaddle. The whole point of SC's famous "local physics grids" is that it isolates the physics calculations for different frames of reference; planets, ships, etc. You keep saying "nested" as if that makes any difference. It wasn't done because it's a clever, sophisticated solution, it was a quick and dirty hack to get the ship interiors working within CryEngine. and it comes with all the limitations you seem to think only other games suffer from. There have been plenty of examples of SC struggling with things like shooting out of a moving ship and the projectile suddenly changing direction as it switched between grids, the vomit-inducing flips when you exit a space ship for EVA, and the hilarious "force reactions" that they've tried to patch on top to create the illusion of unified physics, instead of a seated pilot experiencing G-effects while mobile passengers experience nothing. They might have cleaned some of it up over the last decade, but they haven't made the sort of fundamental changes you seem to think.
Never said the physic was unified from grid to grid or that what CIG is doing is sophisticated. Force reaction is faked, it's evident. I completely agree on the fact that nested grid are a way to isolate calculation because, for me from a tech point of view, it's the best way to do it in a multiplayer game, whatever engine you use (CE, UE, Unity, etc). You just have to manage the in/out of items at the know enter/exist of each nested grid instead of managing the whole content (that can be hundreds of items in a ship) of the grid with multiple vectors.
You seem to say that better ways to do it exist but without explaining it. So explain to me how CIG should have managed it.

No it's not. You just calculate a radial "gravity" vector instead of linear, for objects in the station's grid. Seriously, Roberts was bleating on about physics grids for years (before he dropped off the radar), none of this should be news.
I know it's not hard when the 'map' is isolated. It's hard when the 'map' can exchange lot of objects in real time with another map and when some of those objects have their own inside 'map' (a guy in a flipped rover in a ship that is in space can throw through all open doors an object directly to space).
 
I still believe it. Seeing rastar in action in the last ISC while 2 years ago CIG was only able to create POI 100% the hard way is just a proof of that.
The outpouring of planets and systems is not here yet, but it will be in the future (no date).

Yeah I know bud ;)

And here we are over three years later, (and ten years after the 'tools will speed up...' talk Camural just documented), and Rastar's rebuilds of old tech approaches currently look like this in Evocati:

StarCitizen_2023-08-13_20-51-53.png


(And hell, Rastar just seems to be just a repurposed version of Cryengine's Sandbox tool as it is...)

Some eagle-eyed developers noticed a familiar software being used in yesterday's "Rastar" ISC...

image.png

There comes a point where belief only goes so far as a platform to build on. Where multi-year delays signify more than just an extended wait, but extensive development travails as well. Which have strong implications for the quality of the eventual outcome.

Keep believing friendo. That is all cool. Just don't expect this thread to find belief alone a particularly compelling argument ¯\(ツ)/¯

(And honestly, for your own benefit, you might want to side with the 'judge it when it hits PU' maxim. It's a tried and trusted one. Has pretty much hit Tier 2 ;))
 
I'm just going to say, the high regard some of the old guard of this thread held (and some continue to hold) Derek 'The Vending Machine Slayer' Smart with, purely because he says what they want to hear, baffles me.
 
I've read from here that you can see other players passing the slot from the concourse but I will be pleased to see it in video. From a tech point, I'm also wondering if the slot could be a loading screen disguised. Can you shoot a missile through the slot ?

You can hover your ship just outside the concourse window and watch other players walking around inside the concourse realtime, it's literally a window. You can do the same with the concourses on planets, in outposts and other facilities. There are plenty of videos showing exactly that from when the concourse was first released in game just so players could see it work for themselves, it's old news now.
 
For the Petite Formicidae...

A little something I mocked up in Space Engineers, playing with the artificial gravity. Very similar to how the Millennium Falcon's artificial gravity changes direction in its turrets.

Source: https://youtu.be/SR3bYShMkss


This is from a ten year old game. Seriously, "nested gravity fields" are kind of old hat these days...

Nothing quite like using gravity to great effect in Space Engineers.

I loved setting up Battlestar like launch tubes with the gravity generators
 
for me from a tech point of view, it's the best way to do it in a multiplayer game, whatever engine you use (CE, UE, Unity, etc).
That's where you are completely missing a LOT of techniques, actual physics too (should have listened to those courses !) and showing your complete ignorance.

You just have to manage the in/out of items at the know enter/exist of each nested grid instead of managing the whole content (that can be hundreds of items in a ship) of the grid with multiple vectors.
Stop with your "grid with multiple vectors", please, for everyone's sake. I know CiG propaganda have your head filled with such kind of nonsense but that's not a thing.

You seem to say that better ways to do it exist but without explaining it. So explain to me how CIG should have managed it.
Not using CE to start with. Not using an euclidian coordinate system with a purely 2D fps engine (as everything is relative to a flat coordinate plane). Remember when they had to patch the engine because ships would be considered "under water" at some point ?

I know it's not hard when the 'map' is isolated. It's hard when the 'map' can exchange lot of objects in real time with another map and when some of those objects have their own inside 'map' (a guy in a flipped rover in a ship that is in space can throw through all open doors an object directly to space).
That's where SC fails, hard. Map transitions cannot happen smoothly as they are all moving relative to each other. That's why CiG think "doors are difficult" by the way, and why lifts are death traps, and every object like projectiles or ammunition crossing a map boundary doesnt do anything predictable (or even hit its destination), or why ships suddenly explode because of sudden coordinate jumps. This whole mess doesnt come from a clever implementation: it was a quick and dirty workaround for the limitations of CryEngine.
Of course a bespoke engine would be the solution there, and one with proper spatial coordinates, and relativistic frames of reference. Now think twice before answering it cannot be done - it's been done before (I'll let you guess when and in which game) and for MUCH less than $600 billion..
 
Yes, you can see people passing through the slot. I've seen it myself.
And you could definitely shoot a missile through the slot too, but drawing weapons near the station isn't a really good idea, since you'll get a 30s ( don't remember exactly the timer) timer warning to store them back before getting anihilated by the station's turret

if you are talking about elite, this is not correct.
 
He's flying a corvette. getting a corvette used to be a pretty big grind to get the fed rank to buy. did they make it a lot easier?

The game has become increasingly easy in terms of credits and rank gaining, part of the reason I havent played in an age.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom