Lucifer’s pride sparked rebellion against God and by the Messiah’s might he was cast far from Heaven’s light. Renamed Satan he declared that to rule in Hell suited better than to serve in Heaven.
With envious eyes he watched creation and he beheld two beautiful creatures, clothed only in their innocence and bathed in God’s love.
In serpent form he sneaked into the garden and deceived the maiden, convincing Eve to eat the forbidden fruit. Loyal Adam’s despaired, yet still joined his wife in sin. From their fall we would wait for the Messiah’s return to restore a paradise lost.
This had me thinking: what if we need to look not for Eden, but for something more specific - like the tree of knowledge, the forbidden fruit or even the serpent?
I'm just astounded that this work hasn't been done! Great effort!
A thought occurred to me: does legacy have the old witch space sequence in it still? If so work will need doing to capture that audio - maybe there are clues in how they changed it, if only mechanical ones.
I was a bit unimpressed by the change - some people said it was better so I shrugged and thought nothing of it.
What would be hugely helpful here is a distributable tool which can automatically track the audio of your jump and tell you if you've encountered something unusual. Imagine that! 9 years in!
I can sort of hear what you say... but I wouldn't say it's a breath sound as there's other frequencies being played too.... just noise that you might interpret as a breath.... I guess playing blind to someone or two and ask them what they can hear would be a test...
I've listened to the racket planets play in FSS and convinced myself there's voices in them.... looking for something that might not be there? ;-)
Yes and I'm fully cognisant that my brain is probably interpreting it as a familiar sound rather than just a cyclical surge of noise.
I made a pitched-down version of the file while I was experimenting with it.... it has a very aquatic sound to it
Regardless of whether it's a breath or not, the way the 'breath' sound appears in phases (with a few exceptions in the lower frequencies) makes me wonder about the nature of the signal's output. Assuming this signal is somehow linked to Raxxla, and assuming the signal does not vary elsewhere, then I do see a very tenuous parallel with the Raxxla symbol.
There appear to be 6 intervals within the signal. Perhaps this coincides with the 6 radiating 'arms' of the codex logo? as though emanating from within this object?
The only problem being the sound phases are not spaced regularly apart, so if Raxxla is a rotating object, then it would have to be irregular in some way to align with the signal.
Understandably given it's source location this also contradicts the other theories of it being closer to the Sol bubble, but hopefully the expedition team will find whatever is producing this signal at some point
Amazing work, and very valuable to help isolate any associations with the Toast.
While we're on the topic of audio sleuthing have you experimented with Audacity's spectrograph settings yet in case there are any patterns / shapes we can sink our teeth into?
I've now completed over 60 jumps, including: Hyperdiction, Neutron star, Neutron Jump, Wolf-Rayet.
Achenar to Laedla. 30.6ly
Laedla to Shui Wei Sector LN-S B4-7. 30.6ly
Shui Wei Sector LN-S B4-7 to Crucis Sector EB-0 A6-1. 31ly
Crucis Sector EB-0 A6-1 to Liu Links. 30.8ly
Liu Links to LTT 5013. 30.6ly
LTT 5013 to Lave. 28ly
Lave to Diso. 3.59ly. and back.
Lave to Har Itari. 29.1ly
Har Itari to LTT 5419. 30.8ly
LTT 5419 to 61 Virginis. 29.9ly
61 Virginis to Sol. 27.9ly
Sol to Alpha Centauri. 4.38ly. and back.
Sol to Tau Ceti. 11.9ly. and back.
Sol to Zeta Tucanae. 28ly
Zeta Tucanae to Col 285 Sector SJ-W B 16-3. 30ly
Col 285 Sector SJ-W B 16-3 to Apadipinook. 30.6ly
Apadipinook to ICZ BQ-Y D111. 29.9ly
ICZ BQ-Y D111 to Achenar. 28.9ly
Achenar to Mot. 5.3ly. and back.
Achenar to ICZ FW-W B2-2. 29.9ly
ICZ FW-W B2-2 to Samebito. 27.6ly
Samebito to LHS 1909. 30.2ly
LHS 1909 to ETA Crucis. 30.9ly
ETA Crucis to Shinrarta Dezhra 20.6ly
Shinrarta Dezhra to Puppis Sector DL-Y D 116. 29.7ly
Puppis Sector DL-Y D 116 to LAWD 26. 19.7ly
LAWD 26 to Coatlicue. 30.3ly
Coatlicue to Mehudi. 30.2ly
Mehudi to LP 528-7 1. 29.8ly
LP 528-7 1 to Col 285 Sector OM-F A27-2. 30ly
Col 285 Sector OM-F A27-2 to Col 285 Sector RM-F A27-2. 31ly
Col 285 Sector RM-F A27-2 to Jackson's Lighthouse. 13.8ly
Jackson's Lighthouse to Hyades Sector JM-V C2-2. Neutron Supercharged 124.3ly
Hyades Sector JM-V C2-2 to HIP 23414. 31.1ly
Hyades Sector NC-U B3-1 to Hyades Sector KR-V B2-5. 31ly
Hyades Sector KR-V B2-5 to Hyades Sector HG-X B1-4. 29ly
Hyades Sector HG-X B1-4 to HIP 2004 1. 30.2ly
HIP 2004 1 to Pleiades Sector NN-T C3-11. 26.3ly
Pleiades Sector NN-T C3-11 to Pleiades Sector WU-O B6-0. 30.9ly
Pleiades Sector WU-O B6-0 to Delphi. 30.4ly
Delphi to HR1185. 11.5ly and back
Delphi to Maia. 30.4ly
Maia to Merope. 4.28ly.
Merope to Maia 4.28ly. Hyperdiction (Non-Hostile)
Merope (Hyperdiction space) to Maia 4.28ly.
Maia to Atlas. 5.58ly
Atlas to Asterope. 12ly.
Asterope to Delphi. 22.1ly
Delphi to Pleiades Sector WU-O B6-0. 30.4ly
Pleiades Sector WU-O B6-0 to Pleiades Sector IR-W D1-52. 29.9ly
Pleiades Sector IR-W D1-52 to Hyades Sector ZE-Z B2. 28.8ly
Hyades Sector ZE-Z B2 to Hyades Sector BQ-X B 1-0. 30.2ly
Hyades Sector BQ-X B 1-0 to Hyades sector DB-W B2-4. 27ly
Hyades sector DB-W B2-4 to Arietis Sector FL-X B 1-3. 30.9ly
Arietis Sector FL-X B 1-3 to Hyades Sector DX-H A 11-1. 30.9ly
Hyades Sector DX-H A 11-1 to HR 1575. 26.5ly
HR 1575 to Tascheter Sector XO-A B6. 29.7ly
Tascheter Sector XO-A B6 to Bota Ili. 30ly
Bota Ili to LP 421-7. 30.9ly
LP 421-7 to LFT 601. 29.8ly
LFT 601 to LP 788-24. 28.4ly
LP 788-24 to Shamash. 8.4ly
So far, I have seen nothing that I would consider anomalous, but this is a very small sample size considering the scope of possibilities.
It is, however, enough to put together a working model of the audio part of the hyperspace jump sequence, which I think gives us an insight into how the jumps are put together:
I have collected three main types of Hyperspace Jump.
Standard Jumps. These are what I think of as "minimum duration jumps", they last for the shortest possible time.
Prolonged Hyperspace Jump. These are jumps that take longer than the minimum and usually "feel" much longer too.
Hyperdiction-Interrupted Hyperspace Jump. Interdicted by Thargoids - so far only tested in the Pleiades.
This is all subject to change and refinement after collecting more data.
Conclusions so far:
The Hyperspace jump is divided into three sections:
The "spool up" in realspace: This can have a lot of audio variation since your environment changes this. Ignoring this section for these reasons.
Witch-Space: The actual time spent in witch-space.
Exit "Whump" at destination star (or emergency exit because of Hyperdiction).
So, section 2 is where we need to concentrate this investigation because that's the only portion where the whispers are. As previously noted there seems to be a different mix for each jump, but it's subtle. It's almost exactly the same sound each time, I doubt a human could tell the difference.
Here are the main takeaways so far:
Consistency:
It would appear that there is a high degree of consistency in the first 10 seconds of any/every Witch-Space jump. At approximately the 10 second mark Hyperdictions start, which is a clear two or more seconds before the normal exit checkpoint. Since that's only applicable in areas with Thargoids, I'm not sure if every jump does this check, or there's some sort of global 'region' flag that causes this check to happen only in certain areas?
For every jump, other than a Hyperdiction-afflicted one, after 12 seconds there seems to be an "Exit/No exit" check. It seems that if this check fails (due to network lag, for example), you enter a "Prolonged Jump" sequence where a new 15 second long audio mix starts. At the end of this 15 second segment it appears this same check is repeated. I've got one recording of this second check failing and it goes into what seems like a third 15 second sequence with the same pattern up to a certain point, then it's different at the end, but I've only had that once so I need more samples before I can see if that's a weird one (It was Delphi to HR1185, FYI).
Note: Timings are approximate, but within +/- 1 second from the samples I have collected.
External factors:
So far, nothing at all seems to affect the audio. The origin or destination stars seems to make no difference at all. The length of the jump in realspace (in Lightyears) seems to make no difference at all. Neutron-boosted jumps are exactly the same as standard jumps. Fuel level and module configuration seems to make no difference. Jumping from Supercruise, realspace, near a star, near a station, near a planet, etc. seem to make no difference. I've jumped across the bubble and out to the Pleaides, and there's no evidence of any difference in the audio depending on galactic location - at least across this small area.
I haven't tried different cargoes yet, but I don't expect it to make a difference (other than if something is a deliberate trigger). I haven't tried jumping with the ship damaged, etc. I will try carrying Thargoid and Guardian cargo in the future too as previously mentioned.
Conclusion:
At this early stage it seems like the first 10-second audio segment always happens. Then there's at least one trigger condition that can switch to an alternate sequence (Only Hyperdiction so far logged, but clearly that capability exists). Then at 12 seconds there's what I assume is the 'primary' check to see if the 'end sequence' can load and you end up where you meant to go.
I think this means that if Raxxla were detectable in Hyperspace, it's pretty likely that audio 'signal' (or whatever) would appear after 10 seconds into Witch-Space. I'm assuming (with really nothing to base this on other than it makes sense) that the first 10 seconds is the 'loading' sequence. If it needs more time, it'll extend the sequence by another 15 seconds, and maybe another after that, etc. The Hyperdiction event starting at the 10 second mark means there's a trigger that allows an alternate load at that point. I'm not sure why they didn't set that at the 12 second exit-point that already existed, but... for whatever reason, that's how it works.
My gut feel is that if Raxxla is going to show as audio in Witch-Space it would start at 10 seconds and be a 'fake' sequence like Hyperdictions, or at 12 seconds and be a 'special' type of prolonged sequence. However! It's also possible that there could also be additional audio added to the mix within the first 10 seconds - I have seen no evidence of this at all, but... it's possible since that segment is clearly not a pre-recorded sound, there's at least some level of variation there.
So - Keep your eyes out for long jumps that take over 15 seconds. If one does, it might be worth jumping back and forth a couple of times to see if it was simply lag or whether it's something else.
@Rochester Thanks, I've added your systems to the list. I finished today at Shamash (Nothing to report on the jump in) so next time I'll do all your systems before heading out to Regor.
Now who can do a similar analysis on the graphical elements of the jump...?
I've always wondered if we see Raxxla every time we jump ;-)
And the jump sequence has changed over the years.... I wonder if there's any elements they kept in there like some of the background stars that might be a clue....
And no doubt the audio would have changed, I wonder if there's any value in analysing old YouTube vids' audio?
While we're on the topic of audio sleuthing have you experimented with Audacity's spectrograph settings yet in case there are any patterns / shapes we can sink our teeth into?
I had a quick look just for you - from the few I've checked there's nothing that I would consider to be significant in the spectrograph, so far...
In the images below, the thin vertical pink bars you can see (look a bit like rain streaks to me) are the "fly-by whisps", the things that you can hear quite clearly going 'few.. few...few few, few...few' as you travel. The slightly thicker areas of "pink static" is the 'ghostly sighing' as it changes in volume. The yellow at the bottom is the "Wind-rush-groaning" sound.
Normal Jump:
Prolonged Jump:
Hyperdiction:
Here's a link to the raw audacity file for anyone that wants to have a play too I've been labelling every track so if there is an anomaly in there you can tell where it happened. The list in my post here is the same order as the recordings in the audacity file.
It would be great if more people wanted to check out these recordings, more heads the better
That would be awesome!... I think it would be much harder to spot anomalies visually though, it's easy with a waveform or spectrograph to see if something weird.
And the jump sequence has changed over the years.... I wonder if there's any elements they kept in there like some of the background stars that might be a clue....
And no doubt the audio would have changed, I wonder if there's any value in analysing old YouTube vids' audio?
I had a quick look just for you - from the few I've checked there's nothing that I would consider to be significant in the spectrograph, so far...
In the images below, the thin vertical pink bars you can see (look a bit like rain streaks to me) are the "fly-by whisps", the things that you can hear quite clearly going 'few.. few...few few, few...few' as you travel. The slightly thicker areas of "pink static" is the 'ghostly sighing' as it changes in volume. The yellow at the bottom is the "Wind-rush-groaning" sound.
Here's a link to the raw audacity file for anyone that wants to have a play too I've been labelling every track so if there is an anomaly in there you can tell where it happened. The list in my post here is the same order as the recordings in the audacity file.
It would be great if more people wanted to check out these recordings, more heads the better
We should look for three systems that are as close as possible to being on the same vector. This way we can see if the sound changes, when we jump through a system.
If systems A, B and C are on a line we jump from system A to system C passing through system B on the way.
Per Codex, Raxxla is a definite place. It should have coordinates. Passing close enough, may trigger something.
Edit: Orerve <-> Diso with Leesti in the middle, aligns quite well. It's not that much flying to make it perfect.
A thought occurred to me: does legacy have the old witch space sequence in it still? If so work will need doing to capture that audio - maybe there are clues in how they changed it, if only mechanical ones.
Great work Louis Calvert! o7
Regarding visual differences in hyperspace jumps, I have noticed some slight differences in the 'clouds' within the tunnel, in particular the amount and colours present, between the Bubble and more distant regions (>5 KLY or so). It is subtle but I think there are more green clouds near the Bubble and more clouds in general. I have not recorded distant jumps to properly check, though - I do not think each jump is identical regarding the clouds. There are background features that are the same and a couple of them look a bit like the Andromeda and Triangulum galaxies, to my eye (they always appear at about the 11 o'clock position a little outside the centre of the tunnel).
Whether the audio is different in different (named) regions of the Galaxy is harder to say - I've done a dozen or so runs to Sagittarius A* this year and did not notice any difference in the audio (in fairness I was so busy focusing on the procedure for the next system that even visual differences could have slipped by unnoticed).
We should look for three systems that are as close as possible to being on the same vector. This way we can see if the sound changes, when we jump through a system.
If systems A, B and C are on a line we jump from system A to system C passing through system B on the way.
Per Codex, Raxxla is a definite place. It should have coordinates. Passing close enough, may trigger something.
Edit: Orerve <-> Diso with Leesti in the middle, aligns quite well. It's not that much flying to make it perfect.
Here's one for the "little bit obvious" crowd.
The letters V, H, G, R, A. Can be read on the manual's cover. Putting aside futuristic marital aids, a map?
This occurred to me as a joke, but I still feel I must post.
Here's one for the "little bit obvious" crowd.
The letters V, H, G, R, A. Can be read on the manual's cover. Putting aside futuristic marital aids, a map?
This occurred to me as a joke, but I still feel I must post.
There is also an M (above the Sidewinder's top view, crossed by the outer circle) and what appears to be a partially obscured letter (by the last E in "ELITE").
As you can see - yes, the older versions did indeed have different audio. The version from Beta 3 is considerably different in both the sounds and the way they occur in the track. The 2018 sample sounds much more like the present version, but the waveform shows it's clearly different. I did try another vid from 2018 and the waveform was the same, I only showed S.Fisher's though because it was much cleaner. Interestingly that old audio is still present in the Horizons version running in Odyssey.
In the Beta 3 vid it sounds like you're skimming past massive objects! Pretty awesome
Conclusions:
What I think is most interesting is that there's a big and clear difference here between the left and right channels of the pre-Odyssey recordings, but in Odyssey that difference is considerably smaller, so much so as to be almost irrelevant. If you compare the 2018 right channel with the Odyssey recordings, they seem very similar to me. It seems like this difference was implemented in Odyssey as far back as the alpha in 2001.
On the image below I've highlighted in white the "thickenings" of the waveform so you can more easily see the differences between 2018 (top) and 2023 (bottom). It almost looks like the Right Channel from the old mix is being used as the template for both in Odyssey. EDIT: On consideration, I think maybe the old channels have been mixed together and used for both channels in the Odyssey client?? It's odd that this seems to me to be objectively worse (less 3D and immersive).
.... I dunno what to make of all this, but hopefully someone will
Edit: See this post for the conclusion of this investigation.
I like that idea, it does explain why human and guardian tech are so similar in so many ways. Retaining the 'best' technology for themselves would also explain how the PF managed to retain power for over 500 years!
Hey, thanks for the comprehensive response, i really enjoyed it and i'll take a look in the Omphalos Rift following the sources you recommended.
I was playing the game and i noticed another strong clue that adds to the point we were discussing, that is Guardians being related to Raxxla and human creation or at least our tech development. The three are combined here:
Can you see it? Talk about occam's razor. Isn't it interesting how context gives a whole new interpretation to what's been under our nose for so long?
I'm pretty sure that it was confirmed that Raxxla was in the game from the start and could be discovered. with that in mind I don't think that Raxxla will be linked to carrying cargo that was introduced later in the game.
Could be wrong right enough and I frequently am as my family keep telling me...
I absolutely don't want to discount any possible avenue of research because they are all valid, but in that context, we have to acknowledge Fdev does update/change things, and without any confirmation either way directly from the dev team, we cannot assume (or discount) the same original game mechanic/requirement is still being used now to access Raxxla as it was (potentially) at game launch.
Just as an example, Horizons. when they finally pushed that to all users, maybe it was because the game mechanics to access Raxxla were changed and now required something in the Horizons update.
Or, when the missions about SAP8 cores ect were removed, and they were the best lead we had at that time...
There are a bunch of other examples, never mind Odyssey as well, but suffice it to say, we cannot assume that the activation/discovery process has not "evolved" since launch and that newer items/mechanics could be required...
Also, I still have a theory that Raxxla actually moves. I've had people jump down my throat previously for even suggesting that, saying it wasn't possible, but now, after the Thargoid mothership things moved thru the galaxy, I'm even more convinced that Raxxla is on some predetermined "path" or "circuit" between set stars, only being at each star for a limited duration of specific time before moving to the next star, likely always at a far far distance from any objects in those systems so as not to disturb orbits (or its the size of the thargoid motherships or smaller and just doesn't effects orbits as it passes), and that to be able to find it, and be a repeatable process, requires finding and understanding that path, or simply stumbling upon it (which would be unlikely, assuming Raxxla won't show up on FSS/system map as Raxxla (FSS wasn't in-game at launch anyways))...
I also think if Raxxla is Guardian in nature, that this would be one of the ways they would choose to hide it, so that even if stumbled upon once by someone (an enemy), it would not be there when/if they returned....
but again, just a theory and no good idea of where to even start...
have you experimented with Audacity's spectrograph settings yet in case there are any patterns / shapes we can sink our teeth into?
