Too little. Too late.

[Rebel Yell]

Very good then, you are crazy (in a good way) and all so unusual, you deserve praise and all that, but...

We're just lucky, at least Delaine's ethos is pretty much clear... compared to the one of other powers

We are rather talking about boring and ordinary things here. Such as statistics and the vast majority of players.

I can't speak on their behalf... but ofc if something is boring, I wouldn't engage into it.

I myself was an exobiologist long before profits increased. But I don’t consider those who rushed to collect samples after the increase in profitability to be some kind of sub-biologists. This is just a significant part of the players. Just as significant as the part that grinds to unlock prismatic ones.

You can refuse to admit the truth, but PP is not a key feature of the game. This is just a month of suffering for the sake of the required module. And after the rework, PP will not become a key feature, simply because the audience, that limited to a handful of interested people, and the scale of this gameplay is limited to just the Bubble. It doesn't take advantage of the real key feature of the game - a realistic, full-size galaxy.

I did never exobiologe anything, not interested at all into that and neither in exploration... I could litterally have the same fun (or even more) if game contained 12 systems only: the 11 powers' HQs and Shinrarta, go figure. Having said that, on one thing you're right as probably the original sin behind PP is the module shopping [as generic statement, not related to a specific power], but again that doesn't resolve in any effect for the big picture in powerplay... on the other side, the current state of PP is the result of players' driven choices. I.e. the game-mode selection ["I want to relax, and haul forts in solo] or the creation of coalitions between powers (a thing that FDEV should have lore-wise prevented) and the diminished importance/relevance of certain powers when they've been crippled into larger coalitions interests (-> again, players... not game mechanics).

 

[LaufeusonLoki]

You do get that.....you might also get updates later on? Just, not right now?

You do get that... everything we got in three years, we should have gotten in one patch, somewhere back in 2019, right?

Next year it’s unlikely that the same “later” will still remain. F1 players showed last year that getting updates "later" is not the most effective business strategy.

 

[aRJay]

Yes, I'm from the future. I'm posting this via my cell phone in the microwave. Here in the future everything is boring.

I am seriously worried about that unsafe microwave you have there in the future, here in the past we use ones with shielding curtesy of Faraday.

 

[LaufeusonLoki]

Imagine the amount of time and investment that would have been required to flesh out a 1:1 scale galaxy and fill it with countless wonders that probably only a tiny fraction of the playerbase would ever stumble upon and experience.

Okay, you're right here. It would take them about ten long years.

 

[Quaero]

You do get that... everything we got in three years, we should have gotten in one patch, somewhere back in 2019, right?

Next year it’s unlikely that the same “later” will still remain. F1 players showed last year that getting updates "later" is not the most effective business strategy.

Though I am not disagreeing with you or defending fdev, MNS did this and all for free and it's actually very good and thriving.

I think what is important isn't that updates come out late, it that the specific people doing the work are passionate about the work they're doing. At least this is how it feels to me. The original dev team had a passion to create, the current dev team had a job to perform.

This is the difference I see in the end result

 

[sidereal6]

We have forever lost such pearls as Synuefe VM-D C15-10 2 A.

Have respect Yarp. The Earth-man's world is tiny and undeveloped. He knows nothing of the tragic events of Synuefe VM-D C15-10 2 A

 

[aRJay]

…

I myself was an exobiologist long before profits increased. But I don’t consider those who rushed to collect samples after the increase in profitability to be some kind of sub-biologists.

I was puttering about collecting bio samples before the insta win upgrade happened as that was obviously a mistake I stopped collecting samples until they reset the thresholds, I am still puttering along collecting samples for two reasons one I enjoy it two it will let me pay commanders to refuel my carrier. Am I or any of the rest of us really exobiologists no of course not we are just plant hunters any science done is in Vista.

This is just a significant part of the players. Just as significant as the part that grinds to unlock prismatic ones.

You can refuse to admit the truth, but PP is not a key feature of the game. This is just a month of suffering for the sake of the required module. And after the rework, PP will not become a key feature, simply because the audience, that limited to a handful of interested people, and the scale of this gameplay is limited to just the Bubble. It doesn't take advantage of the real key feature of the game - a realistic, full-size galaxy.

PP is currently not something of interest to me which is why I don’t have any of the bribes to get people to take part.
According to you the new version is at least as uninteresting as what we have now which is fine I can carry on enjoying the minute fraction of the galaxy I will be able to visit in my lifetime.

 

[Disemboweled Ego]

Too little. Too late.

Powerplay 2.0 looks like this

If it's really too late then it doesn't matter how good the new powerplay is if the moment to make something that relies on an active multiplayer community has passed.

While there are ways it could be good, it's not something that would revitalize interest in the game unless it's great beyond all expectation. PvP or Group vs Group is a niche all on it's own and it could interest a new subset of players (that aren't opposed to the idea but find the current powerplay lacking), but it's unlikely to be a large number.

It's also maybe a bit concerning that there was no emphasis on feedback on this - with the thargoid war you can excuse it as wanting to be mysterious, but with a PvP mechanic feedback and a fun balance is key.

While the announcement didn't give much details on what the powerplay update will actually entail, I think the way these big rework updates end up for most long-running (or past their expiry date) games is just rearranging the pieces in a way that completely changes the game without developing a fundamentally new system or much new content. (Like the thargoid war)

Powerplay is an easy target for that and I can see a simple rework like this that makes powerplay a lot better, but I can't see one that improves the game overall in a substantial way because it's still optional and still has to interact with everything else.

My main hope is that we get some new fun (non odyssey) setpiece scenarios out of it (again, like the thargoid war) and it's not too disruptive to the other parts of the game. I feel like I should temper my expecations a bit more though.

 

[Rubbernuke]

You do get that... everything we got in three years, we should have gotten in one patch, somewhere back in 2019, right?

Next year it’s unlikely that the same “later” will still remain. F1 players showed last year that getting updates "later" is not the most effective business strategy.

Behind the scenes its all about timing with updates- PP was supposed to have been updated prior in 2018 but was reprioriotised when FD went through its first upheaval that led to mining, exploration changes, BGS (Beyond).

Not to mention explorers in that time have had space based life, planet based life, a (maligned) scan game, new ship scanner, as well as new surfaces and CGs, building Colonia, Guardian sites, Thargoid sites etc? I get its not as much as you like, but you had your turn at the table.

FD would not update it if they thought it would not add anything, especially given recent events. My guess is FD want PP to become a functional layer of the BGS like factions and goids, which is very much a primary feature and one that is self generating content driven programmatically.

 

[Rubbernuke]

If it's really too late then it doesn't matter how good the new powerplay is if the moment to make something that relies on an active multiplayer community has passed.

While there are ways it could be good, it's not something that would revitalize interest in the game unless it's great beyond all expectation. PvP or Group vs Group is a niche all on it's own and it could interest a new subset of players (that aren't opposed to the idea but find the current powerplay lacking), but it's unlikely to be a large number.

It's also maybe a bit concerning that there was no emphasis on feedback on this - with the thargoid war you can excuse it as wanting to be mysterious, but with a PvP mechanic feedback and a fun balance is key.

While the announcement didn't give much details on what the powerplay update will actually entail, I think the way these big rework updates end up for most long-running (or past their expiry date) games is just rearranging the pieces in a way that completely changes the game without developing a fundamentally new system or much new content. (Like the thargoid war)

Powerplay is an easy target for that and I can see a simple rework like this that makes powerplay a lot better, but I can't see one that improves the game overall in a substantial way because it's still optional and still has to interact with everything else.

My main hope is that we get some new fun (non odyssey) setpiece scenarios out of it (again, like the thargoid war) and it's not too disruptive to the other parts of the game. I feel like I should temper my expecations a bit more though.

It depends on what direction FD go- if its a BGS based layer then from that you have missions, POIs, Thargoid like front lines, potential for more targetted expansion mechanics which then builds on co-op wing gameplay above what you see with local factions.

But we will see.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I honestly CBA to read that. If you're not happy, that's your opinion. If whatever Frontier do is not enough for you, well, you know where the door is (as they say). I don't share your opinion. I am a glass-is-half-full type of person, and it's never too late.

Does this excuse Frontier from criticism, no, but there's no need to be so negative.

Looks at username.

Ummm..... didn't you use to bash FD constantly over the years?

 

[LaufeusonLoki]

Indeed, "noone".
That's why they should ignore it, instead...idk, maybe reworking it and change something.

Yes, they are.

Exploration with new terrain

Is much worse now. Odyssey terrain looks like a brick of soap. It's not a hardware issue, ryzen 5800x/rtx 3070 can do things.

rework of geo/bio sites is much better than before.

There was none. Exept that signals were replaced with a heat map, which still confuses some players, and they believe that the geo/bio signals are simply broken and the game is not being fixed.

Now it's PP's turn

You see, there's a thing. It's called "priorities". Imagine that there is a fire in your room, and you just have a bucket of water in your hands. You decide to water the plants in the room because it's their turn to get hydrated. The fire then destroys the entire floor.
First things first. First you need to figure out what scares players away. And this is definitely not some unpopular game module in which there is no one left at all. People were hoping to get rid of the grind in the first place. Then you make long-needed quality of life improvements to consolidate the results. And only after that do you rework unpopular modules of the game that are not its key feature. This is how you deal with a crisis.

Dont water the plants, if your room is on fire.

 

[Hellrider]

Eh..
Just read @M_72
comment.
I'm mainly explorer but sadly I agree with him.
1:1 galaxy and exploration also isn't key feature of elite.

 

[Arindor]

I haven't seen the news but with the exception of the Panther Clipper, are new ships necessary? (As a caveat, I would love to see orbital shuttles, and perhaps the Wolf MkII and its future variants.) From an exploration perspective, what I would like to see is more diverse flora, and definitely fauna on some worlds too as well as landable ELWs, scoopable gas giants from within the atmosphere, etc., rather than the generic, copy paste stuff I see now. I mean, once you see one bacteria patch, you've practically seen them all and I've lost all incentive to go looking for them.

 

[O'Roarke]

Four new ships per year's the magic number.

If they hit a perfect cadence it's one every three months - that'll help with player retention.
Offset it a month or two with the big content drops of U18, U19, U20, and they're golden when it comes to that.

And the PowerPlay Commodity thing'll likely be fully done by NPCs in PP 2.0 - we the players'll probably get to influence that process via sabotage and counter-intelligence ops; against other players.

 

[Alien]

Looks at username.

Ummm..... didn't you use to bash FD constantly over the years?

I have been critical of Frontier a lot, I won't deny it. It's why I am able to say in a later post in this thread that moaning about the game won't motivate Frontier to change anything. I've been there, I've moaned and I've got nothing in return for it.

However, I am not saying the OP is moaning, I didn't read much of the first post past a couple of lines to get the gist of what they are saying. There are ways to give Frontier feedback, and while they don't ignore these forums (despite me being able to prove they have done in the past), Frontier are only receptive to feedback they are looking for, and the problem for us, they won't tell us what feedback they are looking for.

It's ok to criticise Frontier, but it's how and when you do it (mistakes I've made).

 

[LaufeusonLoki]

1:1 galaxy and exploration also isn't key feature of elite.

Then this game does not have any features at all.

You see, the sheer scale of this galaxy is the only justification for the entire game in the face of the threat of Star Citizen. When one of them starts asking you: “Hey, fellow CMDR, why haven’t you joined us yet? After all, we have already implemented about 3/4 of all the promises that you heard in 2014. We have a great variety of ships for any task , you don’t need to grind for engineers, we have ship interiors, detailed planets with a thick atmosphere and seas, an excellent flight model, we are always open and there is no such thing as solo in our game, and this doesn’t bother anyone, we have excellent ground combat, We can board ships right in space, our graphics are much more realistic and all that."...

You will name one single reason - the galaxy. An entire galaxy against just two star systems. This is the only thing that an Elite player responds to a SC player. The only reason.

Therefore, either the galaxy is the only key feature of the elite in the face of another game, or the elite has no key features at all.

 

[Lhorndra]

I've been tired of tales about future ships for a little over six years now.

Who talked about new ships constantly? FDev or we, the players? I can't remember FDev promising us new ships during the last 6 years. So while it may be sad that there weren't new ships, you grew tired of tales the players told themselves.

Powerplay 2.0 looks like this:
- You stand near the elevators at the station in an animator costume and hand out flyers by hand. Yeeeah, on-foot gameplay 2.0.

You make up weird things just to be annoyed by your own invention? That's not healthy.

Mysterious traces of dozens of unknown civilizations, revealing the secrets of distant planets. That's what this game was supposed to be about.

Since Frontier: Elite II, the series has not been about alien civilizations (ancient, extinct or thriving), and ED never promised that either, as far as I know. I can understand that you find the galaxy bland and boring. It's just that making things up doesn't help getting your criticism across.

Is much worse now. Odyssey terrain looks like a brick of soap. It's not a hardware issue, ryzen 5800x/rtx 3070 can do things.

Personal preference. A lot of people disagree with you, me included. That's not a brick of soap:

 

[Robert Maynard]

The Star Citizen thread is here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/star-citizen-discussion-thread-v12.548510

Please take any and all discussion on that game to that thread. Thanks.

 

[galahad2069]

Then this game does not have any features at all.

You see, the sheer scale of this galaxy is the only justification for the entire game in the face of the threat of Star Citizen.

Also the flight model, which is like 1000 times better in ED compared to any other space games I've seen so far.