In an update to earlier post I made, a recent post placed by Fdev has detailed a couple of the purchasable ship packs, where's the fdl "murder" boat and corvette "death" machine I'm totally shocked that these aren't purchasable almost outraged 
Pay2Win made it to Elite
- Thread starter Einar Donarsson
- Start date
It seems like "both" is the answer - you can unlock the ability to purchase it for credits early (or at all, if you don't have Odyssey) but they've also said it will have a pre-built pack which will presumably work the same as the Chieftain and T-6 ones in terms of not costing credits.
yes, I've seen the builds and that makes it even worse because for the price of an odyssey people will buy a ship that they would normally have to fly for punishment or so, lolDid you looked at all on offered builds?... Sorry to say it, there is still very long way to get those ship at least close to a state which I would like. So avoiding is not a word which I would use
Meh, I'm not too bothered by the announcement. Like has been said before, this is just another option for new players to jump into the action quicker. I did the mining grind for my FC but if it had been offered on an ARX or $ option I probably would have gone that route maybe lol.
As far as the pre-built ships, I'm sure there will be vets that buy that AX ship but be honest, even with unlimited rebuys the noob who buys one and heads to a combat zone or Titan to "dip" their toes into AX combat will probably never even make it to the Titan itself before going boom a bunch of times. Without a rebuy cost, most beginners will be less apt to ragequit at least IMO. The pre-engineered stuff won't help much for lack of skill and general combat know-how. Titan Oya had me spending about 40mil in credits for re-buys myself and I have my AX liscence signed by CMDR Thrust from Bradford himself!
As for micro-transactions, I'm not a fan but I do buy stuff just to support the developer of the game. I also like shiny paint jobs and spoilers on my spaceships too.
I look at it like at least it's not a monthly charge to keep the servers up and going. Us old gamers are just not used to the P2W aspect that mobile gaming brought, and if it brings in more young'uns to help keep the game going I'm cool with it.
Now if I could just get the word out there that any noob that buys the T6 miner ship, I will happily let them use my FC as their mining base. I have some wonderful mining spots out away from the hustle of the bubble I will be happy to take them to
As far as the pre-built ships, I'm sure there will be vets that buy that AX ship but be honest, even with unlimited rebuys the noob who buys one and heads to a combat zone or Titan to "dip" their toes into AX combat will probably never even make it to the Titan itself before going boom a bunch of times. Without a rebuy cost, most beginners will be less apt to ragequit at least IMO. The pre-engineered stuff won't help much for lack of skill and general combat know-how. Titan Oya had me spending about 40mil in credits for re-buys myself and I have my AX liscence signed by CMDR Thrust from Bradford himself!
As for micro-transactions, I'm not a fan but I do buy stuff just to support the developer of the game. I also like shiny paint jobs and spoilers on my spaceships too.
I look at it like at least it's not a monthly charge to keep the servers up and going. Us old gamers are just not used to the P2W aspect that mobile gaming brought, and if it brings in more young'uns to help keep the game going I'm cool with it.
Now if I could just get the word out there that any noob that buys the T6 miner ship, I will happily let them use my FC as their mining base. I have some wonderful mining spots out away from the hustle of the bubble I will be happy to take them to
I don't mind the prebuilt ships at all; they seem alright so far and not too overpowered. They can definitely give new players a bit of a head start. However, locking a new ship behind a paywall is a disgusting tactic. They've been promoting this ship for a while now, building up the hype, and now it's only available for beta testing, which users have to pay for.
That was another concern of mine. We saw an example of a rebuyless T6, which, no biggie, but also a notably more capable hull in the Chieftain. Now the PM2 as well. Makes me wonder what else is effectively getting a free hull rebuy going forward.
I don't think on the information posted, that this is in any way pay 2 win. I could be proved wrong in the future.
I can say that having the best ship in the game does not make you a good pilot.
FDEV need to make money or development stops. I'm a life time pass holder and it really does not bother me about this announcment, even if there are no concessions for us.
I have been playing since Alpha and still enjoy the game. So good on FDEV for trying to find another way to make revenue. It is after all my choice to buy or not to buy.
I can say that having the best ship in the game does not make you a good pilot.
FDEV need to make money or development stops. I'm a life time pass holder and it really does not bother me about this announcment, even if there are no concessions for us.
I have been playing since Alpha and still enjoy the game. So good on FDEV for trying to find another way to make revenue. It is after all my choice to buy or not to buy.
I agree with the sentiment, but it isn't going beta, it is going live. I'm not on board with calling it early access either. When they put it in the live game there is access, nothing early about it. The choice is whether or not you want to pay to avoid delayed access.
Between here and reddit it's interesting to find the prevalent sentiment that people are fine with the idea of paying to skip the bad parts of games rather than wanting better games with less bloat and padding.
Which is doubly odd in this community since right up until this announcement the major argument was that the pacing was the point.
Which is doubly odd in this community since right up until this announcement the major argument was that the pacing was the point.
I don't care about the buying of a ship, if it can be bought in game. Remember the Cobra Mk 4? Only if pre bought the expansion otherwise you are out of luck. The game lived on. Same with this. You can buy the Python Mk 2 in game, the wait time needs to be only a few weeks not months, but it won't be pay to win. How can it be? The skill of the commander is more important, then a pre-built bought ship. Long time players have a huge advantage over any new player, and any long-time player who buys the Python Mk. 2 will want to engineer it to their specifications and not a pre-built. Any new player won't know the best components to use for a long time is and is at a disadvantage. So, in the end was I shocked about buying a ship. Yes. Will it 'end' the game. No. Just have fun and if you're a long-time player and afraid of the new ship being better than your current build buy one in game on release (again the wait needs to be a lot shorter), but I doubt it will be that easy, remember there are 4 new ships on the way, will each one make the last one obsolete or all other ships? No. The game can use the infusion of cash, or like me played a lot and have 10,000 of ARX saved. I play on Mobius (non pvp) and solo so anyone having the new ship won't mean a thing.
Hello, I am a Space frog, and I love my little Elite Dangerous pot. I will never, ever climb out of it, so please continue slowly boiling me!
Of course, if you do, your Fleet Carrier will be scrapped... so don't. You. Dare. think about climbing out...
Right, let's put the "Play To Win" debate to bed. The game is called "Elite". Since 1984, the only purpose of gameplay is to progress your rank or your credits. Frontier could have included more gameplay, but they absolutely refuse too. The people here who refuse to move on from their childhood 40 years ago largely don't want to let them, and get hyper-aggressive about anyone saying Elite could be anything more. So today, with Elite Dangerous, the win-conditions of the game are still that simple ranked progress. Rank, credits, ship power; you do the same thing over and over to make the number go up towards Elite. Or, in a really exciting new twist on the genre, to Elite Ranks 1-5.
As CMDR Worf put it; "If winning is not important, Commander, then why keep score?"
New ships are, within the game's own deliberately simple framework, accelerating that process towards the higher Rank and score. You are paying to advance your own "winning" status. You are paying to win.
In order to get AX weaponry, you had to do a specific grind; Guardians, then Engineers, then Materials. You couldn't even take part without it, because non-AX weapons are useless against the Thargoids. For years there has been no other content other than grinding towards being able to shoot back. Now though, you can skip this entire gameplay loop by just buying a ship with AX gear already on it. And, possibly, engineering mods as the language is suspiciously vague enough to allow for that too. (Despite the insistence of the fans who can't admit any flaw their Beloved Space Wife has until it's absolutely down in black and white on paper, at which point it's going to be Not That Bad After All and you should stop criticising for that reason instead)
Powerplay? If I can get to bigger ships, faster ships, more dakka on my ships quicker than you, I can move those ranks up and down faster than you can. I can pay to win more than you. I am paying to win.
Paying to get content is paying to get a reward. Being rewarded gives a feeling of success. Paying for success is paying to win.
And even if it's not, that you are somehow playing a game despite not loving it all that much, the fact that if I do pay, I'll be able to show off my new Python Mk II with it's unique, package only skin, for 3 months when you specifically can't have it, is designed to make me feel superior to you. Look at you, trying to save Humankind with your pathetic scrub skins. Let's all laugh at the pauper and his charity skins.
It doesn't have to be designed that way. You could release the Python Mk 2 in game at the same time too. But they don't, and they know what kind of Fear Of Missing Out they're targetting. Just because you say you don't care what others say, doesn't mean they don't know what the others are thinking. And they'll put you behind them just to make a sale to those who want to feel they're ahead. Ahead of you specifically.
You might feel that's harsh. You just want to supporting the game! But FDev could support the game by throwing all of you out and just targetting one sad, lonely Whale millionaire. But then... it would be different, because it would be you being priced out, right? And that's what this move is. The fans who defend it are doing so because they think they can still afford the price. They think they'll be still be able to survive in the boiling pot, and don't care too much about the frogs who can't. They're not defending the principle of equal access to content, just assuming they're still personally able to get it.
But as the old joke goes, a man asks a woman if he can sleep with her for a million dollars; she is tempted, but then he asks if he can sleep with her for $5. She is outraged and asks "What kind of woman do you think I am?!" and he says "We've already discovered that, now we're just debating the actual price".
I prefer my games to be more ethical than that too. I never liked that the Cobra Mk IV was locked behind an out of game purchase. I do have one. I wanted you all to have the chance to have one too. And I despise the way FDev are going with this choice of putting the Python Mk 2 into the store. I can probably afford that too, I think I have the Arx stacked up just from helping a friend now and then with his carrier upkeep. At least, until the other 4x Mk 2s are patched in, eh? No new gameplay, just buy the new Meta ship. But it shouldn't be this way. A fundamental moral line has been crossed; if I'd wanted another exploitative, cynical, deeply manipulative game I'd have just downloaded yet another Freemium Mobile game. I'd largely stopped playing Elite because the game design had frankly become bobbins with the endless repetitive grinds-instead-of-gameplay. With this kind of turn towards the dark patterns of exploitation however, I actively hate it.
And just because it's "not so bad" for some of you, doesn't mean the pot isn't being boiled. Or we can't see the deals with the devil being made.
Shame on you FDev.
Of course, if you do, your Fleet Carrier will be scrapped... so don't. You. Dare. think about climbing out...
Right, let's put the "Play To Win" debate to bed. The game is called "Elite". Since 1984, the only purpose of gameplay is to progress your rank or your credits. Frontier could have included more gameplay, but they absolutely refuse too. The people here who refuse to move on from their childhood 40 years ago largely don't want to let them, and get hyper-aggressive about anyone saying Elite could be anything more. So today, with Elite Dangerous, the win-conditions of the game are still that simple ranked progress. Rank, credits, ship power; you do the same thing over and over to make the number go up towards Elite. Or, in a really exciting new twist on the genre, to Elite Ranks 1-5.
As CMDR Worf put it; "If winning is not important, Commander, then why keep score?"
New ships are, within the game's own deliberately simple framework, accelerating that process towards the higher Rank and score. You are paying to advance your own "winning" status. You are paying to win.
In order to get AX weaponry, you had to do a specific grind; Guardians, then Engineers, then Materials. You couldn't even take part without it, because non-AX weapons are useless against the Thargoids. For years there has been no other content other than grinding towards being able to shoot back. Now though, you can skip this entire gameplay loop by just buying a ship with AX gear already on it. And, possibly, engineering mods as the language is suspiciously vague enough to allow for that too. (Despite the insistence of the fans who can't admit any flaw their Beloved Space Wife has until it's absolutely down in black and white on paper, at which point it's going to be Not That Bad After All and you should stop criticising for that reason instead)
Powerplay? If I can get to bigger ships, faster ships, more dakka on my ships quicker than you, I can move those ranks up and down faster than you can. I can pay to win more than you. I am paying to win.
Paying to get content is paying to get a reward. Being rewarded gives a feeling of success. Paying for success is paying to win.
And even if it's not, that you are somehow playing a game despite not loving it all that much, the fact that if I do pay, I'll be able to show off my new Python Mk II with it's unique, package only skin, for 3 months when you specifically can't have it, is designed to make me feel superior to you. Look at you, trying to save Humankind with your pathetic scrub skins. Let's all laugh at the pauper and his charity skins.
It doesn't have to be designed that way. You could release the Python Mk 2 in game at the same time too. But they don't, and they know what kind of Fear Of Missing Out they're targetting. Just because you say you don't care what others say, doesn't mean they don't know what the others are thinking. And they'll put you behind them just to make a sale to those who want to feel they're ahead. Ahead of you specifically.
You might feel that's harsh. You just want to supporting the game! But FDev could support the game by throwing all of you out and just targetting one sad, lonely Whale millionaire. But then... it would be different, because it would be you being priced out, right? And that's what this move is. The fans who defend it are doing so because they think they can still afford the price. They think they'll be still be able to survive in the boiling pot, and don't care too much about the frogs who can't. They're not defending the principle of equal access to content, just assuming they're still personally able to get it.
But as the old joke goes, a man asks a woman if he can sleep with her for a million dollars; she is tempted, but then he asks if he can sleep with her for $5. She is outraged and asks "What kind of woman do you think I am?!" and he says "We've already discovered that, now we're just debating the actual price".
I prefer my games to be more ethical than that too. I never liked that the Cobra Mk IV was locked behind an out of game purchase. I do have one. I wanted you all to have the chance to have one too. And I despise the way FDev are going with this choice of putting the Python Mk 2 into the store. I can probably afford that too, I think I have the Arx stacked up just from helping a friend now and then with his carrier upkeep. At least, until the other 4x Mk 2s are patched in, eh? No new gameplay, just buy the new Meta ship. But it shouldn't be this way. A fundamental moral line has been crossed; if I'd wanted another exploitative, cynical, deeply manipulative game I'd have just downloaded yet another Freemium Mobile game. I'd largely stopped playing Elite because the game design had frankly become bobbins with the endless repetitive grinds-instead-of-gameplay. With this kind of turn towards the dark patterns of exploitation however, I actively hate it.
And just because it's "not so bad" for some of you, doesn't mean the pot isn't being boiled. Or we can't see the deals with the devil being made.
Shame on you FDev.
As long as 'rebalancing' doesnt screw up the existing engineering on my ships and that a payed for ship just isnt as good as an honestly engineered ship.
its a slippery slope when a dev introduces p2w mechanics because when money can be made it makes sense for the developers to limit players in some fashion in order to promote payers.
its a slippery slope when a dev introduces p2w mechanics because when money can be made it makes sense for the developers to limit players in some fashion in order to promote payers.
perhaps they released an ambiguous statement so they could see how many pitchforks there were. in order to adjust and solidify plans.
Hello commanders long time no see! I don’t care about selling ships for real money, some people just don’t have the time to grind, and I would like to buy a fleet carrier are they going to be on sale? If not see you when they do because as it is now I really don’t want to grind for days to get my own carrier and after being in the game since the start I still don’t have one billion credits.
Entertaining and on point. I’m on the hunt for a mistress at the least.
Seems to me, that those packages are pretty much so and so...in fact needing a lot of tuning by player anyways...
What's important to remember is that these ships:
1. Have engineered / pre-engineered modules.
2. Come with 0 rebuy.
It doesn't matter how many modules are engineered, what class etc. Pandora's box has been open. You could in theory see the TitanSealClubber 3000 in the store 6 months from now, if this sales model gets off the ground.
1. Have engineered / pre-engineered modules.
2. Come with 0 rebuy.
It doesn't matter how many modules are engineered, what class etc. Pandora's box has been open. You could in theory see the TitanSealClubber 3000 in the store 6 months from now, if this sales model gets off the ground.
The zero rebuy is a major issue indeed.
Adding the prebuilt as a layout that can later be rebought would be a way of sidestepping that.
Just curious ... why so? Can't get my head round why is so important that some other player will have zero rebuy for lets say average ship build at best.
