Python Mk II & Updates To The Gamestore

[Winterwalker]

Sure, here is an excerpt from a post i made today:



And here is a part of a post made on reddit today, kindly copied by @Weps



Any other questions?

There are some genuinely great ideas there that I'd also like to see. The only criticism is probably the level of coding / modeling that most of them would entail to implement? Jumpstarters are just a handful of custom NPC ships made from existing kits/paints/modules made available to buy, so a question of how high or low the fruit is hanging I suspect.

As for the other, yeah I know, slippery slope but I'm also not certain the above lists act in a way that would draw a new tranch of players. Slightly esoteric? Me/You, "I'd like to take the spolier off my T10" .. new player perception, "what's a T10 anyway? Plus I'd be looking at 1000 hours before I could ever afford to buy one." Yes there's the road to riches but that's esoteric too, and somewhat on rails and actually a rubbish way to approach the game imo.

I don't want to see FD go ANY further down the EA route either but they do need a player base that's both large and invested enough to support (the development of) the nice things listed and right or wrong ED has a reputation for being a grind and perhaps just doesn't have the numbers. Elite 84 didn't have much competition but ED has plenty. I'd recommend a Startwinder and 1000 credits to anyone - actually I'd recommend starting on foot I think - but you're a very small fish for quite a long time and it can't be argued what they've come up with here helps that. People are still going to want a Corvette, Elite Rankings are no closer, you're still a noob pilot.

Fair warning, absolutely. It's a general direction that risks undermining the entire purpose of the game but a T6 and a Chieftain aren't a very long way down that road imho.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

There are some genuinely great ideas there that I'd also like to see. The only criticism is probably the level of coding / modeling that most of them would entail to implement? Jumpstarters are just a handful of custom NPC ships made from existing kits/paints/modules made available to buy, so a question of how high or low the fruit is hanging I suspect.

As for the other, yeah I know, slippery slope but I'm also not certain the above lists act in a way that would draw a new tranch of players. Slightly esoteric? Me/You, "I'd like to take the spolier off my T10" .. new player perception, "what's a T10 anyway? Plus I'd be looking at 1000 hours before I could ever afford to buy one." Yes there's the road to riches but that's esoteric too, and somewhat on rails and actually a rubbish way to approach the game imo.

I don't want to see FD go ANY further down the EA route either but they do need a player base that's both large and invested enough to support (the development of) the nice things listed and right or wrong ED has a reputation for being a grind and perhaps just doesn't have the numbers. Elite 84 didn't have much competition but ED has plenty. I'd recommend a Startwinder and 1000 credits to anyone - actually I'd recommend starting on foot I think - but you're a very small fish for quite a long time and it can't be argued what they've come up with here helps that. People are still going to want a Corvette, Elite Rankings are no closer, you're still a noob pilot.

Fair warning, absolutely. It's a general direction that risks undermining the entire purpose of the game but a T6 and a Chieftain aren't a very long way down that road imho.

Yeah, that's why my list is purely cosmetics. The other list goes a bit further.

Fair warning, absolutely. It's a general direction that risks undermining the entire purpose of the game but a T6 and a Chieftain aren't a very long way down that road imho.

Thin edge of the wedge is the concern. How long before we have fully engineered FdL's for sale? Some people might say FD won't do that, but they also said ARX would only ever be for cosmetics, and needs must when the financial devil drives.

 

[Winterwalker]

Thin edge of the wedge is the concern. How long before we have fully engineered FdL's for sale? Some people might say FD won't do that, but they also said ARX would only ever be for cosmetics, and needs must when the financial devil drives.

Early access to Python2 exacerbates this worry in my mind. Coinciding with the Jumpstart thing, timing could have been better? We've had early / exclusive access to ships before but not when adding loadouts for sale.

Only time will tell if this is to be the new normal ofc yes but having watched the thing last night I'm encouraged by the the look of PP2. There seems to be space for strategising and some leading through too. I tend to be of the opinion that it's good to have room for both those of us who like space cold and dark and those who don't want to feel like they're self flagellating themselves in a game. So I'm definitely not freaked out by THIS change. Camels can carry only so much though

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Early access to Python2 exacerbates this worry in my mind. Coinciding with the Jumpstart thing, timing could have been better? We've had early / exclusive access to ships before but not when adding loadouts for sale.

Only time will tell if this is to be the new normal ofc yes but having watched the thing last night I'm encouraged by the the look of PP2. There seems to be space for strategising and some leading through too. I tend to be of the opinion that it's good to have room for both those of us who like space cold and dark and those who don't want to feel like they're self flagellating themselves in a game. So I'm definitely not freaked out by THIS change. Camels can carry only so much though

Yeah, PP2 sounds like it might have something going for it at least. And the changes to engineering sound promising as well.

 

[SergMx]

Am I correct in understanding that they will now remove all paint, awnings, etc. from the store. Or will someone still buy them?

 

[aRJay]

Am I correct in understanding that they will now remove all paint, awnings, etc. from the store.

I don’t think so.

Or will someone still buy them?

Yes.

 

[Untilting]

They sell awnings? I'm in.

 

[aRJay]

They sell awnings? I'm in.

View attachment 390928

Now I see why everyone wants the Cobra mk4.

 

[Dormant account - pls delete]

I've waited thirty pages to say this but I would like to point out a big assumption you all make about grind and playstyles. Some of us are cash-adequate but time-poor. Suppose I invest 10 hours in getting a ship to minimal viable for combat, or trading, or <playstyle>.

If I then want to try something else - eg mining - buying a prebuilt instead of doing the same engineering grind again because none of the modules fit is enormously appealing to anyone who would otherwise spend £10 on three lattes (or 8 avocados.)
ED is not very well set up for the time-poor, which I is fair because it's intentionally broad and deep so there's no real way out of that; but if you look at it this way, the pre-builts are not pay to win, they're pay to actually try out other playstyles at all.

 

[Angus Poindexter]

I've waited thirty pages to say this but I would like to point out a big assumption you all make about grind and playstyles. Some of us are cash-adequate but time-poor. Suppose I invest 10 hours in getting a ship to minimal viable for combat, or trading, or <playstyle>.

If I then want to try something else - eg mining - buying a prebuilt instead of doing the same engineering grind again because none of the modules fit is enormously appealing to anyone who would otherwise spend £10 on three lattes (or 8 avocados.)
ED is not very well set up for the time-poor, which I is fair because it's intentionally broad and deep so there's no real way out of that; but if you look at it this way, the pre-builts are not pay to win, they're pay to actually try out other playstyles at all.

Hear, Hear. Well said.

 

[Dormant account - pls delete]

I can easily see that as a failure - if they let the carrier upkeep at 150 millions per week - you wont have a galaxy littered with carriers and a jump time of 60+ minutes during weekends

That is because FDev did not think about where to put the carriers and also did not think about how to actually implement the gameplay of carriers.

I'm often on here defending FDev but everything about the way carriers are implemented is foreseeably broken.

It's obvious from the comms so far on roadmap that FDev have learned that lesson though and have really put the right amount of thought into 2024 features and rollout and growth of the features.

 

[Northpin]

That is because FDev did not think about where to put the carriers and also did not think about how to actually implement the gameplay of carriers.

I'm often on here defending FDev but everything about the way carriers are implemented is foreseeably broken.

It's obvious from the comms so far on roadmap that FDev have learned that lesson though and have really put the right amount of thought into 2024 features and rollout and growth of the features.

Well, IMO the initial call for 150* millions per week carrier upkeep was the right one (IMO)
The bad call was to cave in to the outcry and drop the upkeep to less than 30 millions.

Edit: and what was nobody expecting was to have carriers as mobile marketplaces first and foremost instead of them being mobile shipyards

*(i think it was 167 millions, not 150, but.. well...)

 

[CMDR Kaikama]

The Python MkII becomes available for all Odyssey owners, including LEP owners, on the 7 August.

could you please tell me what i paid £120 for then? because if my maths is right i could have saved myself £50 by just buying Horizons and Odyssey seperately at release. to throw Lifetime pass owners to the curb like this, after selling the lifetime pass on the back of "all future content at no extra cost" is disgraceful

 

[CMDR Kaikama]

LEP Holders get EA, as does anyone else also willing to spend ARX for it.

I wish people would stop making it look like LEP holders are entitled crybabies, when we're not.

ONE LAST TIME, THE LEP DOES NOT AND SHOULD NOT APPLY HERE.

Got it?

the LEP was sold as "get all future conetent at no extra cost"
it's why many of us bought it, we aren't entitled, we just want what we paid for.
which so far, we haven't
Horizons: £40
Ody: £30
LEP: £120

 

[Alien]

the LEP was sold as "get all future conetent at no extra cost"

No, it was sold as getting all future expansions, not all future content. Don't believe me? Go check.

EDIT: You're not the first to get something like this wrong. I have had to correct many forum users on here regarding what Frontier promised during the kickstarter. It's amazing how many people think they are owed more from Frontier than they actually are. Frontier are very careful to only give you what they have explicitly worded they will give you, and as such you have to be very clear about how Frontier have worded what they have worded.

 

[amigacooke]

No, it was sold as getting all future expansions, not all future content. Don't believe me? Go check.

EDIT: You're not the first to get something like this wrong. I have had to correct many forum users on here regarding what Frontier promised during the kickstarter. It's amazing how many people think they are owed more from Frontier than they actually are. Frontier are very careful to only give you what they have explicitly worded they will give you, and as such you have to be very clear about how Frontier have worded what they have worded.

As ever with ED the situation is always more complicated than it looks. £90 and above Kickstarter pledgers get expansions and updates. Traditionally, Frontier haven't distinguisted between the pledgers and lepers.

Will I have to pay for updates, or expansions, or new content?
Some new features and content will be paid for, especially those that build significantly on the game. If you have pledged to £90 tier or higher then any expansions or updates are free.

Are the new ships part of the Odyssey expansion? It would appear so as those who have Odyssey will get the P2 at no additional cost (eventually), whereas others will have to buy it.

 

[CMDR Kaikama]

No, it was sold as getting all future expansions, not all future content. Don't believe me? Go check.

EDIT: You're not the first to get something like this wrong. I have had to correct many forum users on here regarding what Frontier promised during the kickstarter. It's amazing how many people think they are owed more from Frontier than they actually are. Frontier are very careful to only give you what they have explicitly worded they will give you, and as such you have to be very clear about how Frontier have worded what they have worded.

okay... so we paid £120, the price of three expansions and got two expansions for it. so they haven't even given us what they have very carefully worded!
so you'd think this would be even more of a reason to include the ship, to make up for their overall shortcommings

 

[Rainbro]

It's amazing how many people think they are owed more from Frontier than they actually are. Frontier are very careful to only give you what they have explicitly worded they will give you, and as such you have to be very clear about how Frontier have worded what they have worded.

Its not that amazing, you've already identified the reason for it. Frontier can be very specific with their wording when they want to be, to give a certain impression while actually saying nothing. Odyssey VR "not at launch" comes to mind.

Frontier do of course always have the right to provide the bare legal minimum to cover themselves. Doesn't make it feel any better for those who were provided a more general impression elsewhere by Frontier, though.

Like, I would have assumed that people who paid a large sum upfront would get everything unless there was a good reason not to give it, sort of as the default. Cosmetics not included? Fair enough, they're only cosmetic. New ships that are having delayed access unless you pay? They've already paid more...a bit of a slap in the face for the reason to be "because we can, now cough up, valued lifetime supporter".

 

[Cmdr Maty83]

I thought the stream was pretty quiet, much less spamming than might be expected.
Maybe the Mods were working overtime clearing it before it was visible?

Drowned out by Chicken spam. Before then, it was quite brutal.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

I see no problem with paying real world cash for pre built ships. Grind your job or grind the game. If people want it then give it to them.

Because someone can simply reroll and buy a pre-engineered ship without having to do all the legwork we had to do and that other new players have to do, which gives them an unfair advantage.

If there were ever any hope of Open ever really taking off, pay to win just killed it. Open Play was just given a death sentence.