It is why I bought it on release...
Although it was "Pay for 9 FPS on a 2080 Super" in those days
Pay2Win made it to Elite
- Thread starter Einar Donarsson
- Start date
Although it was "Pay for 9 FPS on a 2080 Super" in those days
can i get it without paying? if yes, its not pay to win.
Yes it its, because other players can. Just because you refuse / don't want / can't afford doesn't mean other players can't.
They will get an advantage over you by able to get it faster.
Something that can take you 100 or 1000 of hours can be in their hands in right away.
This is an advantage they have over you.
P2W: "...the practice of paying to get weapons, abilities, etc. that give you an advantage over players who do not spend money."
Call it whatever you want? Pay to win, pay for advantages, pay to skip, whatever. The actual change being discussed is the same whatever term you use.
Real example.
My carrier is 50000 ly away. And now I want to make it "auto refuel" i.e. without my CMDR on board. It is explicit prohibited. But, I can land there 2nd account. Now I can buy exploration ship, mining ship and just jump to carrier in 4-5 days. Before P2W I would have to grind things for 3-4 weeks, that what was stopping me of using 2nd account.
My carrier is 50000 ly away. And now I want to make it "auto refuel" i.e. without my CMDR on board. It is explicit prohibited. But, I can land there 2nd account. Now I can buy exploration ship, mining ship and just jump to carrier in 4-5 days. Before P2W I would have to grind things for 3-4 weeks, that what was stopping me of using 2nd account.
I am not sure if you refuse to admit you are wrong, or plainly just don't understand or grasp what P2W is.
Answer me this hypothetical scenario please:
You and I buy Elite Dangerous Odyssey the same day. You choose to play it by not using any real money in-game.
Me on the other hand, decides to buy the Python with fully upgraded weapons, armor, etc.
I decide to attack you in your little Sidewinder.
Who of us is having the advantage / upper hand?
Me or you?
you are talking about a time saver, or "accelerator" monetisation scheme. !=p2w
to be fair: prebuilt ships have 1 p2w element in them and its so hillarious that noone even knows about it, nor talks about it. and its not "hurr durr fully engineered" or any of that smack...
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No I am not talking about that. I am talking about the advantage I get = by getting things before you.
And if we both started the game at the same time, and I bought the best ship for money and upgrade and met you in a dogfight I would
clearly have a huge advantage over you.
It's hilearous you won't admit this
you are backed up in a corner, poor thing and if we held hands and kissed softly on lips and if the sun wouldnt shine and if the sea would evaporate and if alf would get the cat and if rimmer became a real boy what then?No I am not talking about that. I am talking about the advantage I get = by getting things before you.
And if we both started the game at the same time, and I bought the best ship for money and upgrade and met you in a dogfight I would
clearly have a huge advantage over you.
It's hilearous you won't admit this
I'm not disagreeing with the definition, it is what it is. I feel it's terrible because it gets used in a binary "Pay2Win = Bad" context which doesn't take into account the full extent of the definition, or that people have varying acceptable levels. Often RPG expansions introduce story in new, harder areas, with new gear appropriate to that increased difficulty. By definition it's Pay2Win as that gear could be used to make the basegame content easier. That would make it bad in the binary logic, but actually most of us are plenty willing to accept that level of Pay2Win. Where our lines are drawn differ, and we all can judge when we opt out of buying content based on that.
Ozric
Volunteer Moderator
Well that has been an issue for years because of the super special FSDs that were CG rewards.
I was responding purely to your "you didn't put the time in like we had to" comment. People who started playing this year didn't put the time in to get to the same point, as people who started 3 years ago. Who also didn't put in as much time to those who started in 2017. Who also didn't put in anywhere near as much time as those who started in 2014.
It it's your first MMO then I can understand the initial annoyance, but making the game easier in the early stages as the years go by really is standard practice. As I said what feels like years ago in this thread
I started playing MMOs in 2002, I have a fairly good idea of what Pay to Win actually is. And I've already expressed my feelings/concerns about the current system.id argue (not very much) that words matter...
the actual change being discussed is having subpar ships for money. ships that are made obsolete by almost no effort in building a better one. ships that pose no threat to any meta. ships that barely suffice for the purpose they are intended for.
you can call it what you want if you want, but this is in no way* unfair advantage for real money over not paying players.
*there is one, but noone seems to care about that one, so...
This is standard into "vertical leveling" MMOs, when you have new set of gear each year which wipes all before. So new player is enforced to go through all that old stuff without real meaningful rewards until very end.
Elite is horizontal leveling. All things were valid at day 1, and now they're valid yet. So I don't think "standard practice" fits it.
Ah yes 5$ a month for like 200-300 tracks, most of which are royalty free anyway.
Ozric
Volunteer Moderator
So why has the amount of credits that can be earned through every activity increased exponentially since release? Fuel costs and ship prices haven't increased along the same lines, so it's not general inflation.
Why do we now get 3 materials when we pick one up rather than one? Just a couple of examples that it's all to save time and allow newer players to access what they want to, quicker.
I have 50k+ Arx on one account (and a shortage of Iridescent PJs), so will have to opportunity to buy both pre-built and Basic P2 when they launch (as those Arx will only buy up to 26k worth of cosmetics now...)you can call it what you want if you want, but this is in no way* unfair advantage for real money over not paying players.
*there is one, but noone seems to care about that one, so...
This will certainly give me an advantage over my playmates if the gauntlet is thrown down for some PvP in 'stock' ships - and I'm lowlife enough to take it! Of course, some of them are sitting on a good stash of Arx and are thinking of their current value also... I may not get that advantage, after all...
I'm afraid I'm totally unable to foam at the mouth over P2W or whatever else anyone cares to call it, at least until FD make it that the store contains assets (apart from cosmetics) for Arx that may not be available in EDO (Sorry H 4.x players, FD are looking at Odyssey as the current game, just as they did with the original Horizons), then I'll reconsider my stance.
As I don't bother playing with the masses in-game any longer (I got older and slower), I cannot comment on the effect of my spending Arx whenever I wish may have on them...
So in case something like the 5A SCO being ARX exclusive even for Odyssey, you'll reconsider? I'll mark that comment for later.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Moderation Message said:
The streamer I was watching on Thursday was buying the drives from the store, which appears to indicate that they, along with the P2, will be normal stock in outfitting / shipyards at some point in the future.
But you are welcome to mark the comment for later - after all, I only mentioned reconsidering, didn't I?
If they came in on August 7th, along with PP 2.0 and the Type 8, why would I need to be concerned? - I'd already have an "A" rated SCO FSD, just because I had a heap of in-game currency that, from this week, has lost a chunk of its cosmetic purchasing power, and will be watching for the game world to crumble to dust as I fly around seeing the sky falling behind me. (apologies for the levity, being serious over a game isn't a natural state for me)