Good point, although I think the client may connect to FD servers for some kind of record keeping. I had this with some commercial engineering software. it needed to connect on install with a valid key. Officially, if you had one licence you should only have one instance running on one machine for one user at a time, but they were pretty relaxed about multiple installs (as the software often needed to be moved from machine to machine) or having one install at work and one at home to work at home. Where they clamped down was if a large company had one licence, yet many installs and many operators, they would check to see if you needed the multi licence setup. That software had DRM but it never got in the way or caused a problem offline.
About DRM and the need to connect to the internet
- Thread starter beelbeebub
- Start date
Good point, although I think the client may connect to FD servers for some kind of record keeping. I had this with some commercial engineering software. it needed to connect on install with a valid key. Officially, if you had one licence you should only have one instance running on one machine for one user at a time, but they were pretty relaxed about multiple installs (as the software often needed to be moved from machine to machine) or having one install at work and one at home to work at home. Where they clamped down was if a large company had one licence, yet many installs and many operators, they would check to see if you needed the multi licence setup. That software had DRM but it never got in the way or caused a problem offline.
I don't want a refund but I still think if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a bleedin' duck.
This may not be a helpful comment, but to be honest I wish all the "I wont play anything with DRM grumbe grumble, having to log onto the server is DRM.." people would log off the forums and not come back. Because they seem quite happy to log their account onto FDev's servers and be online to spam up the forums.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
If the game were to dispense with server authentication, how could we expect that we would be the only player to be able to gain access to our commander(s) and associated progress, etc.?
If anyone thinks the "always online" requirement is not a DRM tactic, then you are kidding yourselves. Why else would a game dev invest in huge server infrastructure "just so you can have a rich and dynamic experience"? They lied, plain and simple. Let's not forget the ultimate goal of these companies, to make as much money as possible, while delivering as little as possible. while I'm hopeful that the final version will be worth the investment, I'm not ignorant to the realities of the industry and the tactics employed today by these firms.
Ok, I put this up on the 'other' thread at least twice yesterday, but nobody seemed to debate it.
My personal opinion is that the DRM issue has been hijacked innappropriately, to try and reinforce the argument of a promised offline mode (which I would really like to leave out of this for the moment)
Focussing purely on the DRM part, I read it as such...
Ok, so what does 'Physical DRM free' mean to you?
To me, who has played both games from physical media and on Steam, I've always seen 'physical DRM' as copy protection on the media. Usually with a requirement to have it in the drive when you play the game (with all the associated extra 'bonus' sound effects... whirring, clicking, you know the sort of thing...)
All I see promised is that you will get a disk, with the game files on it, that you don't need to keep in the drive. There is no 'pysical DRM' on the media as your rights to play the game are handled by the authentication process when you log in.
And so, when approached from that angle, I struggle to see this tenuous link that some have formed that 'physical DRM free' must = offline play, other than they misquote the statement.
Discuss
My personal opinion is that the DRM issue has been hijacked innappropriately, to try and reinforce the argument of a promised offline mode (which I would really like to leave out of this for the moment)
Focussing purely on the DRM part, I read it as such...
Ok, so what does 'Physical DRM free' mean to you?
To me, who has played both games from physical media and on Steam, I've always seen 'physical DRM' as copy protection on the media. Usually with a requirement to have it in the drive when you play the game (with all the associated extra 'bonus' sound effects... whirring, clicking, you know the sort of thing...)
All I see promised is that you will get a disk, with the game files on it, that you don't need to keep in the drive. There is no 'pysical DRM' on the media as your rights to play the game are handled by the authentication process when you log in.
And so, when approached from that angle, I struggle to see this tenuous link that some have formed that 'physical DRM free' must = offline play, other than they misquote the statement.
Discuss
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the internet is the conduit by which DRM can be enformed/implemented. Stop playing verbal acrobatics, it's not that hard to see.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
I made much the same point - the inclusion of:
implies that use of an online account is required in some way to play the game (bearing in mind that, at the time of the boxed set pledge tiers being added there was no offline game - that came later).
...
Ok, so what does 'Physical DRM free' mean to you?
To me, who has played both games from physical media and on Steam, I've always seen 'physical DRM' as copy protection on the media. Usually with a requirement to have it in the drive when you play the game (with all the associated extra 'bonus' sound effects... whirring, clicking, you know the sort of thing...)
All I see promised is that you will get a disk, with the game files on it, that you don't need to keep in the drive. There is no 'pysical DRM' on the media as your rights to play the game are handled by the authentication process when you log in.
And so, when approached from that angle, I struggle to see this tenuous link that some have formed that 'physical DRM free' must = offline play, other than they misquote the statement.
Discuss
I see a fundamental difference between the DRM that ED was supposed to be free of e.g. dongles, CD always in drive, rootkits or even lenslok, and the "Logging in to an online game = DRM" position.
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Original Xbox games can be played offline, sold, traded, gifted, used years after the publishers have disappeared and the platform is unsupported. In fact all the things the people who want ED to be DRM free say they wish to do and cannot because of the "DRM". Yet original Xbox games are crawling with DRM. In fact pretty much every game since the mid 80's has had copy protection of some sort or other. games with no DRM at all tend to get pirated hugely and the developers lose interest in supporting them as they get no income.
As RM says, how can on online game not have a login of some description? The only way would be if your data was stored locally and the servers took that at 100% face value with no authentication at all. So I assume that the the posters who are "logging in is DRM" are also happy with the cheat fest that ED would likely become with everyone flying around in solid gold Asps.
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So stop using the internet? No games that requires the internet? As I pointed out DRM has been part of gaming since at least the mid 80's. the original elite came with a variety of DRM strategies, the awful lenslok and the not quite so bad "type in word 7 line 12 page 34 from Dark Wheel" system. if you've got an original Speccy copy of Elite and have lost the lenslok you're stuffed.....
HAhahah, oh my. Wanting to create a dynamic and changing universe that responds to the actions of all the players is now "a DRM tactic"
OK so you have a PC that can proc' generate a 400 billion star galaxy and keep track of an evolving economy and a few hundred thousand players while running a resource intensive 64bit game?
Can you tell me where I can buy one too please.
Checking if something has DRM is incredibly simple..
Is your right to play it digitally checked? If yes then it has DRM if no then it doesn't
It really is that simple folks, if you have to provide a username and password then its got implicit DRM. There isn't a court in the land who would find otherwise.
Is your right to play it digitally checked? If yes then it has DRM if no then it doesn't
It really is that simple folks, if you have to provide a username and password then its got implicit DRM. There isn't a court in the land who would find otherwise.
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Does ED require a check on your identity to play. Yes.
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Is this in conflict with FD's promise to "Physical DRM-free boxed edition of "Elite: Dangerous" plus all rewards above (please note: the disc in the pack is simply an alternative way to install the game - it will have the same online account code whether installed off disc or downloaded digitally)". No
All that discussion about DRM.
Offline is more than just the lack of DRM. It's a gameplay experience that is inherently different from the way to play online games. The main feature being the <pause>-button, but also a lot more.
The possibility to mod the game to your liking (be it christmas themed ship skins, naked NPC or whatever gets you off) without being framed as a cheater is another aspect, for example.
The thing is that everything I read so far concludes to me of DRM being the only valid justification for always on. As someone said, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...
It's a richer experience playing online? Then give us the option to do otherwise. If we see the benefits of online play, maybe we will get there, but why force us?
If we see that offline suits us more we have to accept the "bleak" experience of traditional gaming.
If server code can be released in the future, why not release it now?
Until now this smells like cash making. And it won't work. As for me, if I don't see anything convincing about this I'll refund before release - and I preordered both the game and the expansion pack. So, please.
Convince me.
Repeating that this isn't DRM because there is no DRM software or whatever involved is not convincing. You can't play the game without account, it's DRM.
Offline is more than just the lack of DRM. It's a gameplay experience that is inherently different from the way to play online games. The main feature being the <pause>-button, but also a lot more.
The possibility to mod the game to your liking (be it christmas themed ship skins, naked NPC or whatever gets you off) without being framed as a cheater is another aspect, for example.
The thing is that everything I read so far concludes to me of DRM being the only valid justification for always on. As someone said, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...
It's a richer experience playing online? Then give us the option to do otherwise. If we see the benefits of online play, maybe we will get there, but why force us?
If we see that offline suits us more we have to accept the "bleak" experience of traditional gaming.
If server code can be released in the future, why not release it now?
Until now this smells like cash making. And it won't work. As for me, if I don't see anything convincing about this I'll refund before release - and I preordered both the game and the expansion pack. So, please.
Convince me.
Repeating that this isn't DRM because there is no DRM software or whatever involved is not convincing. You can't play the game without account, it's DRM.
I just came back to the forums to manifest how disappointed I am.
I am not particularly affected by the always online choice since I have a dependable internet connection.
I am disappointed with FD's denial that the always online design choice is first and foremost one to combat piracy of their software.
This seemed like the proper thread.
I am not particularly affected by the always online choice since I have a dependable internet connection.
I am disappointed with FD's denial that the always online design choice is first and foremost one to combat piracy of their software.
This seemed like the proper thread.