About DRM and the need to connect to the internet

[killminster]

DRM is simply Digital Rights Management, a Digital Method to see if you have the Right to use the product.

Frontier by having the Launcher force you to login is carrying out a D.R.M check, you connect to their servers to make certain that you have the right to use the product that you have installed on your computer. That is the first level of D.R.M here.

The second level of D.R.M is the always active server connection, due to this you require 1. there for it is also a part of the D.R.M protection system.

Those using Diablo 3 as a example, the D.R.M side of D3 at it's core is the Battle.net authentication that you must carry out no matter which way you sign in to check that you legally have the right to use the product.

For Adobe users it's the Key that you have to put in to prove you own the software.

For Lightwave 3D users it's either the Dongle or the Key you have in when you use the software.

For Zbrush users it's the internet activation and or phone activation on first use.

etc etc etc.

If it was truly D.R.M Free you could simply put it in, install it and play it with out caring where/when/how/what

OK, but that last sentence would never ever have happened even if the game had be given an offline only mode. Even if Frontier hadn't reneged on giving an offline version there would have still been some kind of verification of purchase like the ones you listed (and my idle speculation here is that it would be some kind of product key entered when you install) and that's technically DRM right?

There would always have been some kind of effort to ensure you pay to play however the software was delivered or used be it online, offline or on physical media (never an option I know). I don't know, I think that people are probably more annoyed about a broken promise and crying foul over DRM that would always have been present in some form or another is a convenient issue to legitimize their beef.

 

[OriginalBadBoy]

It's just ridiculous.

And yet completely expected ... Sadly ..

This story is going to run and run ... And it will hurt FD, by the same token negative publicity got more exposure to the game, but its too early to tell at the moment.

 

[JonnyC0mbat]

And yet completely expected ... Sadly ..

This story is going to run and run ... And it will hurt FD, by the same token negative publicity got more exposure to the game, but its too early to tell at the moment.

As long as the game is solid it wont affect sales much, if at all. Most people are used to this type of thing, and patience only runs out when they are unable to play the game (looking at you Sim City).

 

[LukeP]

I have two issues with this whole "offline only" furore. 1. If you don't have an internet connection, how are you even playing the Beta? 2. The original Elite, and Elite Frontier were two of the most pirated games of all time. You cant honestly expect a game that is only sold via the internet to have no DRM in place, that would be lunacy from a business perspective.

Well, tell that to GOG

That aside, aside from hardcore 1984-era people, the whole marketing spin I am aware of was MMO - and I frankly am more concerned about not crossing t's in that departament.

 

[jamotide]

Fair enough, although the following then seems to be a bit contradictory:

How is that contradictory?? It reaffirms it.

Yes, the game code will not include DRM (Digital Rights Management), but there will be server authentication when you connect for multiplayer and/or updates and to synchronise with the server.


WHEN.

BOOM! DRM argument out of the window

what how? It reaffirms the argument, because now you no longer have a choice WHEN to connect. That is the whole point. Hence the name "Always-on DRM"

 

[ThatFuzzyTiger]

So, by that token, no games that are online are DRM free?

Correct. No game that is online only is DRM free. That includes MMOs, F2P online games such as the latest Ghost Recon thing.

For a game to satisfy the criteria of having zero DRM it has to be able to function on a local system without requiring any form of authentication either locally or remotely, the installer must not be copy protected with a rights management system such as SecuROM, and the software must not include backround rights management drivers such as TAGES.

 

[JonnyC0mbat]

Well, tell that to GOG

That aside, aside from hardcore 1984-era people, the whole marketing spin I am aware of was MMO - and I frankly am more concerned about not crossing t's in that departament.

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You cant really use GoG as an example. They don't make games, they buy up licences from what is essentially "abandonware", and then sell them on (after a bit of fiddling with DosBox, that pretty much anyone can do themselves). GoG aren't concerned with DRM as it would be a huge undertaking to add it, and the prices of their games are so low that it just isn't worth the effort.
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Frontier however are selling a £50.00 per unit product, not a £3.50 copy of day of the tentacle, and want to ensure that they receive full proceeds from their development. It isn't unreasonable to want to get paid for doing the work.

 

[jamotide]

Gog sells high priced games as well. DRM Free is their whole reason for existance,it is their major selling point, it is not just "not worth the effort".

 

[jmga]

DRM-Free is still possible, just provide the servers and let people host their own, like many DRM-Free online games do. In fact, what these games do is host a local server when you play offline single-player.

 

[Pibbles]

Here is an example. I have several homes, one of which has no internet, no mobile signal, doesn't even have sewerage! We summer there and also spend Xmas there. So I can play beta now here in the UK, but could no longer play on my hols out there. I also fly to and from another house in the US several times a year, so I now cannot play in flight.

Now, I actually don't care about this, i am just using myself as an example to answer your query

I have two issues with this whole "offline only" furore. 1. If you don't have an internet connection, how are you even playing the Beta? 2. The original Elite, and Elite Frontier were two of the most pirated games of all time. You cant honestly expect a game that is only sold via the internet to have no DRM in place, that would be lunacy from a business perspective.

 

[jmga]

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You cant really use GoG as an example. They don't make games, they buy up licences from what is essentially "abandonware", and then sell them on (after a bit of fiddling with DosBox, that pretty much anyone can do themselves). GoG aren't concerned with DRM as it would be a huge undertaking to add it, and the prices of their games are so low that it just isn't worth the effort.
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Frontier however are selling a £50.00 per unit product, not a £3.50 copy of day of the tentacle, and want to ensure that they receive full proceeds from their development. It isn't unreasonable to want to get paid for doing the work.

The Witcher 3 will be DRM-Free. And Steam games are almost DRM-Free from the piracy point, they get cracked before released and they always top torrent webpages. So your argument is invalid.

 

[n13L5]

There has been much muttering about the lack of offline play and one of the theme arising has been that ED was promised to be DRM free.
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Some posters are saying that the need to always be online to play means that FD have gone back on their promise to make ED DRM free.
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I don't think the need to be connected to the internet is the same as DRM and here is my argument why.
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If I have an open source web browser (say Firefox) that is indisputably DRM free. There is no electronic (or in the case of FF legal) restriction on me installing in on as many machines as I like.
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If I install FF on a machine without internet access, I cannot access web pages, I cannot look at the latest stock prices, news, check my email etc.
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Does that mean that FF has DRM because it requires an internet connection for full use?
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My understanding is that ED can be installed on any machine, but you are only allowed one connection per user to FD's servers for stock prices, news, messages, match making. If you don't have an internet connection then you can't access that information and the software doesn't work because of a lack of that information, not because DRM.
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I suppose FD could make this really beyond doubt by making the tutorials available without an internet connection. Then there would be no question over the DRM.

Its obvious that online-only play amounts to a form of DRM.

Your firefox comparison is limping, cause I can download firefox once and then install it on two computers. Now My wife can browse at the same time I can browse, rather than me having to get off to let her on.


You might as well assume that some people liked "DRM free" figuring they can use it together with their kid, which probably nobody would be upset about,

but others might be thinking about uploading it to the pirate bay, after which Frontier would end up deprived of fair compensation for their labor, and it would be bad for the game, as there would be less funds to develop it further.

But I'd rather have DRM with a working offline mode than no DRM and no offline mode.


I want them to be able to earn their money, but not by renegging on their promise of offline game play.

There's enough viable schemes from Ubisoft and others, where you need to get online once to verify you actually bought it, and without that, it won't run.

No need to install some nasty DRM rootkit, no need to cut offline play.

 

[JonnyC0mbat]

The Witcher 3 will be DRM-Free. And Steam games are almost DRM-Free from the piracy point, they get cracked before released and they always top torrent webpages. So your argument is invalid.

So you have a lot of experience getting games via torrents then?

 

[Pibbles]

So you have a lot of experience getting games via torrents then?

Anyone who follows gaming or Internet privacy is probably subbed to several blogs that list top torrents. I've never pirated a thing in my life but I am an advocate of internet privacy. Because rights holders are eroding that privacy I follow the usual blogs and one weekly update is top torrented film\game. They post this to prove DRM often is counter productive - people will download a torrent to avoid unfriendly DRM, for example

Knowledge does not equate to guilt. I know how an atom bomb works, but i didn't do Hiroshima

So I say weak attempt at an ad hom

 

[jmga]

but others might be thinking about uploading it to the pirate bay, after which Frontier would end up deprived of fair compensation for their labor, and it would be bad for the game, as there would be less funds to develop it further.

Do not promise DRM-Free if you do not trust your customers. That is the difference between publishers like EA and CDProjekt, first ones only care about money and treat their customers like bandits, while second one base their business in the trust of their clients.

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So you have a lot of experience getting games via torrents then?

Yes, but I have even more experience in buying games.

 

[CMDR Brock Samson]

Pfft.Always online is the Ultimate DRM measure.

 

[Mharr]

You cant really use GoG as an example. They don't make games, they buy up licences from what is essentially "abandonware"

GOG /games##sort=bestselling&release=a2005&page=1
The Witcher, FTL, Grimrock, Riddick, To the Moon, Hotline Miami, Divinity 2, Alan Wake, Papers Please, Fez, even Assassin's Creed and Far Cry. Trusting your customers and releasing genuinely DRM free software is something a lot of real-ass developers are doing today, and it's working out fine as a business plan. Minecraft is playable offline and I don't think those guys are struggling for money. We gave FD one and a half million quid up front based on assurances that they would be following this route, and not the Blizzard/EA approach.

 

[Mharr]

The daftest thing about this is that Elite: Dangerous will still be pirated. World of Warcraft has been pirated, no DRM is effective.

 

[Aekat]

Oh for the love of sweet dieties.

Right, to put this to bed once and for all.

DRM is Digital Rights Management. What that means in practice is that any form of content management that forces you to authenticate your account qualifies. However, times have changed since the advent of the internet and these days DRM tends to mean "games which force a consistent connection to a server outside of the local computer". However you wish to spin it, Diablo 3 on the PC has DRM, even if it is ostensibly a single player experience, the DRM in question is that you must sign in to your battle.net account in order to experience the game.

Elite Dangerous requires you to sign in to your online account and will require you to sign in to your online account in order to continue accessing the game, at no point will this requirement change, therefore you are going to be reliant on an authentication process that is not local. That is the current and correct understanding of DRM as in the current climate. Furthermore as the game will not function without a constant internet connection (much like Diablo 3 and the new simcity prior the offline patch), it's effectively tethered DRM, because you cannot experience and enjoy the product without being (a) logged on and (b) connected in some way to Frontier's galaxy server.

Logic, does you has it? I dearly hope so.

I think you may find people respond better to your points if you can express them without being so patronising.

You make a fair comparison, but in using SimCity's offline patch you highlight a key difference: SimCity was *capable* of running offline - hence all it took was a patch. E|D is *not* capable of running offline. Not all of the game - possibly not even the bulk of it - is held locally. That is an important distinction for the argument you're making.

 

[Tyr07]

Diablo 3 could have easily been designed to run offline, I don't like it as I can die in a single player game due to lag.
I classify this as DRM intentional.

Simcity 3 can be run offline.
I classify this as DRM intentional.

World Of Warcraft cannot be played offline.
I classify this as DRM as a side effect.

Offline steam games need to be installed / have internet access to login to your account at least once before providing offline access.
I classify this as DRM intentional (But still mostly fine since they offer you a deal of downloading all your games over and over again through the internet for free)

Eve Online.
You cannot play this game offline.
I classify this as DRM as a side effect.

Natural Selection 2
It is a PVP online game.
Even though it uses steam, I classify this as DRM as a side effect.

World of Tanks - You cannot play it offline, it is an online pvp game.
I classify this as DRM as a side effect. DRM is not limited to content you pay for.

Eliteangerous!
You cannot play the game offline, it's not possible, it needs a server.
I classify this as DRM as a side effect.

Checking Your Email!
Cannot be done unless online!
DRM as a side effect! With an account and everything!

Where is your uproar about DRM email? Sounds silly right?
So does complaining about a game designed to be online only.