Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

HansAcker

HansAcker
VR Golgot said:
Yeah I'd imagine it's a tricky one to resolve, but also not super pressing. In organic play most people won't end up there.
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It was more pronounced in this test as the quantum drive would drop out at the authority borders, it seems. I didn't test much, only flew from Orison to Lorville and back again. The test was supposed to be already over when I logged in.
 

Factabulous

Factabulous
Shame about the meshing test, how is the 3.24 Evocati coming along?

Update on 3.24: "The 3.24 cargo/personal hangar build for Evocati today ran into some unrecoverable server deadlocks that would have made the build about as bad as yesterday's tech-preview build. We are holding off on a publish until the issue is resolved which will most likely be by Monday"
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Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Viajero
HansAcker said:
I wonder if the rotation grid interface has a solution. It's probably hard to find the borders and not a case that needs fixing?

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_PLVjP3wso&t=130s
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What we see in that vid is simply a change of physics/coordinates grid. It also happens in Elite. And, according to testimonies at the time of the initial test, it also happened already before meshing tests in SC. It is something that I do not think needs fixing or smoothing as actual gameplay happening at coordinate reference borders is something super rare at this scale in the middle of nowhere.

Btw, nothing in that vid suggests a change of actual server, other than the "Authority Identifier" code change. What we see is just a change of reference grid. Changing servers implies offloading of old assets and loading of new assets in memory etc, which is something that we definitely saw in the test of the jump to pyro, but not here so far as far as I know.

So what is it really that we are talking about when we say "server change"?

So far one "asset" type that seems confirmed as being offloaded are missions, but that is precisely one type of asset that does not need "offloading"...

Players (and their ships/gear) in your "server" would be another type of offloaded/loaded "assets" probably, if those change too. But then again that would just be a change of network contacts much like it already happens in Elite when you drop into other players instances or jump out or in super cruise etc.

In terms of actual star system map assets (planets, stations, bases and all entities in them etc), so far I have not seen any indication that the way those are streamed in and out, or loaded/offloaded, has changed in any significant way, meshing or not. We saw assets load/offload signs in the pyro test, but so far I have not seen it here (not me at least).

And so, if star system map assets and entities loading/offloading is still the same, and given that interaction across physics grid boundaries is not very practical, there does not seem to be much added value for the player in this new meshing system so far. The same limitations due to player numbers would still apply for each "authority". You may see a few more players than usual in a given area here or there (and that is assuming the shard is full); but other than that, and given we are still talking vast amounts of space with player caps magnitudes of 100-200 realistically at most, no major changes from a player experience perspective at all. Unless they reduce the player caps themselves for each "authority" of course, and thereby defeating the purpose of the meshing thing in the first place.
 
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VR Golgot

VR Golgot
One in one out...

This game is AAAS (Alpha as a Service), pronounced “ass”​

I just woke up and took the medicine after backing this game to the tune of 5000 since 2013. I grew up playing wing commander, and actually enjoyed the film as well…i had faith in Roberts.

Fast forward to last month I got a hull c. It wouldn’t spawn using the terminal. I checked youtube and found that, due to bugs, only really one station can spawn it and you have to spawn another ship first then spawn the hull c otherwise it spawns into the space station building itself and cant be flown because it will be merged into that actual building.

I wanted to get CIG’s opinion on this so i sent in a support ticket. It went unanswered for three weeks but i eventually got a reply stating the ship is in an “unreleased state” and that gameplay functionality, including ship spawning, is not supported in alpha.
I replied back asking if the company had any internal SLAs and why it took three weeks to get a reply and why they couldn’t support the ship i laid for and was redirected to spectrum to fill out a bug report. That’s it. They didnt acknowledge anything about SLAs or why it took three weeks to get a first response to my ticket.

I went to the SC subreddit and asked what others experienced in terms of first response times and i was downvoted for even bothering support with such an issue.
What i learned then is a few things.
  1. Roberts has captured an audience high enough on copium that they will, to their own detriment, support a product which is actually not being designed to be released but to always be “alpha as a service” (Alpha as a Service)
  2. This audience is a farm of milkable whales who will reliably spend hobby money each year provided that ship metas are changed to make room for “the next best ship in x category”
  3. Because the game is “unreleased” CIG’s support philosophy is they can really only provide direct support of making sure you have access to your account (login), and making sure you are able to make transactions (and receive refunds where laws protect buyers). You bought a ship and cant access it…alpha. You lost paid-for subscriber flair due to server crash and character reset didnt fix….it will come back with next wipe we cant help…alpha
Looking at their support model, CIG doesnt consider the game supportable because the features and ships are “unreleased”…how could they? All the features are half baked and have been for a decade now. And that is exactly how the ptu will be for as ling as possible.

At the same time CIG touts features as being “delivered”. This one word change says it all.

Delivered means they can pretend to have given the community a product…no matter how bad the product is or how unfinished it is. It allows CIG to funnel money into ship sales and marketing (revenue centers) and away from things like support and releasing a 1.0 version of the ptu (cost centers).
The day CIG says ptu 1.0 is released it will be on the hook to support every ship, every in game bug that causes loss of goods,ll of it. It can never do this because the scope and tech debt are way too high.

Their play here is to release sq42, and string ptu backers until investors and stakeholders at cig have packed their parachutes with enough gold to feel secure.

Then, they will release ptu, and the game will collapse under the weight of its own scope creep and bugs within a few years.
The lawsuits will then come but roberts and the executives will have funneled money away beforehand in anticipation of this so they will close the doors of CIG and in the end the employees will be let go.

That is the ultimate fate of this game and that is why it will remain AAAS for as long as the whales will allow for…

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen_refunds/comments/1dk8y61
Source: https://old.reddit.com/r/starcitizen_refunds/comments/1dk8y61/this_game_is_aaas_alpha_as_a_service_pronounced/
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StuartGT

StuartGT
abc0815 said:
Yes proper networking should be done at the end of "development". The first thing you do when building a house is to buy a chandelier and then design a beam to hold it. Once you have 1/3 of a roof you start doing the groundwork.
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This is a prime example of someone who clearly Does Not Understand Game Development

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Cosmo

Cosmo
cigwatch said:
Chinese whales are going to sustain the house of Roberts for a long time.

robertsspaceindustries.com

Shenzhen Barcitizen $2750 to dining with developers - Star Citizen Spectrum

Did CIG know this? Barcitizens in China are always conducted with pomp, more like a con. Other items came with ticket seems awesome. But I find it a bit strange to look at selling seats to dining...
robertsspaceindustries.com robertsspaceindustries.com
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That's not enough for what CIG owes the Calders and other big investors.

The House of Roberts will collapse when too many of the fan-base become negative about SC. They will inevitably think that they got a shoddy "game" for the $700, $800, $900 million raised.
 
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VR Golgot

VR Golgot
So they're still looking for a SQ42 Lead Narrative Designer...

VR Golgot said:
Is this good for Star Citizen?

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worked as a Lead Narrative Designer on Squadron 42,

Specifically focusing on dialogue implementation across the title, as well as setting up best practices and pipelines going forward.

Responsibilities included

– Leading and supporting members of the Dialogue team in their tasks and responsibilities.

– Working directly with other department leads and stakeholders to create a smooth and easy to
follow dialogue implementation pipeline across the title.

– Working directly with Dialogue dependent departments to create new dialogue tools to
facilitate a quicker asset creation pipeline across departments.

– Creating and maintaining a centralized dialogue database to enable easy tracking of dialogue
implementation statuses across dependent departments and the title.

– Creating and maintaining supporting documentation as needed across the title to support all
dependent departments in dialogue implementation.

– Creating and maintaining onboarding documentation for new staff and those involved in the
dialogue creation pipeline.
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VR Golgot said:
Yeah. Story still needs some work apparently ;)

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VR Golgot said:
Erm... holy cow! :oops:

1/5


Ignore the delusional cope from the 5 star reviews - Cloud is not serious about making anything​


Lead Narrative Designer
Former employee, less than 1 year
Manchester, England

Recommend X
CEO approval X
Business outlook X

Pros
Prelude

Do not work at Cloud, it is not worth the money or the stress.

Cloud will lure you in with promotions & a large pay packet – even if you have outgrown your previous job role & know you're going to quit the studio you are currently at, wait for another job, whatever big game Cloud talk in the interview stages, it quickly becomes obvious none of it is doable, and neither of these titles are launching this side of 2030.

(happy to be proven wrong though, as the resulting car crash that is Star Citizen 1.0 & Squadron 42 release will be hilarious to watch. With several key staff members finally getting a crash course in reality once the general gaming public play these games and tear them apart)

Pros

Shockingly low in hindsight, free pastries in the morning & fridges stocked full of soft drinks, along with on site barista's that make free coffee (though if you only drink Tea that's not really a benefit)

Vitality health benefits.

Free Beer Fridge on Fridays – downside of this is you're getting drunk in the office, which can go as well as that sounds.

Pool Table / Ping Pong Table.

Arcade Cabinets that rarely work

Air Hockey table – the pads have been taken away though because “it's too loud” - again, in the same area as the pool / ping pong / free drink.

Free biscuits / fruit.

Allegedly, you will be working on a genre defining once in a generation game (regardless of what project your working on), that game will never release but you will be working on it. Another review mentioned it recently but trauma bonding definitely a big “plus” of working here

Cons
Cons

About 2 months into working at Cloud you realize that (at least with one project) everything makes a lot more sense if viewed as “making a film” vs making a game

Tools being used are extremely obtuse, tech debt ridden CryEngine dev tools with a learning curve more comparable to a learning brick wall, a situation only made worse by a slew of out of date documentation persisting throughout the company in every department in terms of onboarding or training for the engines being used.

Shocking workplace culture, HR sit you down during your induction and explain a zero tolerance policy to sexist jokes / attitudes / behavior, this is something director level staff could do with a refresher on based on what gets said in high level meetings.

A historic lack of pre-production becomes extremely obvious within the first few weeks of the job, the above mention of lacking documentation extends to game documentation. With multiple aspects of the 'feature complete' titles being woefully undocumented or fleshed out mechanically, with multiple areas of the games still being under alpha tier reworks at worst, short notice overhauls dependent on the mood of whatever CEO or director is looking at the section in question.

When this is brought up, responses regarding the lack of documentation and shoddy confluence maintenance range from “yeah we know it sucks but we're constantly being pulled in too many directions” to “who cares, we're making a game we don't have time to document this”.

The people giving the latter answer would then be the same people in meetings going “what's meant to be happening here again? Why has no one written this down!” Fortunately though, director level staff do find time to write up documentation on how to effectively use the toilets.

Rampant miscommunication, multiple departments are regularly given conflicting directives and goals, these departments are told their work is the highest priority, which cascades down into resource management conflicts with downstream departments regularly suffering as a result of this.

Due to recent leaks – this type of miscommunication in the office has become even worse, with multiple departments being kept in the dark on features they are working on and what the purpose of it is even for, with nothing being committed in writing for fear of it being leaked.

The most egregious example recently being department heads not being told about an impending milestone deliverable (playable demo to showcase to publishers), despite it being known about by top level management at least 2 months in advance, only finding out about it with less than a week until the due date.

The studio is constantly flip flopping between both projects, with no clear direction on what is the priority at any given point, work will be done on one project only for it to be shot down as it can't apply to the other, despite one being an MMO space trucker & the other being a single player cinematic shooter & the obvious incompatibilities this would understandably cause on key features.

What Benefits there are are slowly being trimmed back in a cost saving method with no communication to the staff about this, a good example though is if you looked at taking the job in 2022, a on site gym was listed as part of the benefits – this gym never existed as the Manchester office is currently an ongoing construction site, and with it being pulled from the website now as a benefit & no mention of it when pressed further, it's likely just been stealth scrapped.

For a game with 600 million invested into it, cost saving / corner cutting is a regular practice despite the internal messaging (read: cope) of “working on industry leading tech”, such examples of this are heavily noticeable with audio considerations.

The company is pushing a return to office – there's not enough sound rooms on site in Manchester to accommodate the audio designers being asked to return to office, the sound rooms that are there did not get built to the recommended specifications suggested by the heads of audio.

Hot Desking has been suggested as a work around – on the open dev floor which any audio graduate will tell you makes it impossible to do critical listening skills pivotal to the job.

This is also true of the performance capture stage on site at the Manchester office, with the surrounding background noise of Manchester and construction being done nearby being audible in captured footage & audio, making asset extraction even more time consuming. Requests for further soundproofing have been dismissed, due to the risk of 'making the place look untidy'. (the place being a motion capture stage in a big empty warehouse, which looks 'untidy' by default)

when all of the above gets raised with management, it's dismissed as “well it's good enough” - which it decidedly is not for a company who constantly state it's “leading the industry”

Further cost cutting is the reported on “stealth” layoff's, with key staff members not “being let go”, instead refusing to uproot their families & lives to move from the US to the Manchester office, where they can be paid less in comparison for the same work.

To quote another glass door review - “Morale is very very low across every team. Most every department from Operations, to Development, to Marketing are all prisoner to the ever-changing whims of CR and his need to micro-manage everything. Production cannot even make a schedule that lasts a single quarter because CR/ directors will blow it up by changing their minds about everything they just asked a team to complete 5 minutes after it is done and approved.”

That is to be honest the best way to describe Cloud Imperium, the plan lasts until the CEO decides to pull rug out from under the teams involved without telling them directly.

As a direct result of this, public communication to backers is always conflicted when compared to communications internally, the biggest one being “feature complete”, which both internal written and verbal communications contradict the public message of.

In summary – just generally not a very nice company to work for, while there are some very nice people working at the company, you are unfortunately stuck working on the worlds most expensive midlife crisis.

For every nice person you will end up working with at the company, there's just generally an unhealthy work culture, with a worrying amount of 'cultists' who buy into the cope and regurgitate it, refusing to address the needed change to actually ship anything.

Instead working themselves to death because 'it's what professional game developers do' – which is a nice cope to tell yourselves when you are in the office at 11 working on features that won't make it into the game after CR changes his mind in 3 weeks, but not really something you can make a career out of.
Generally just lots of toxic behavior from all levels of staff who have only ever worked at Cloud as they scramble to be king of garbage mountain.

More power to them, but it's a lot of energy to waste on what will ultimately be an absolute nothing burger at best, an industry wide punchline at launch at worst.

Advice to Management
Advice to management

The only way you are releasing anything this side of 2030 is to step back and let someone who has released a game within the last decade take the reigns, as it is, your ego is the biggest hurdle that both projects need to overcome.

The Tech is outdated, there's never a stable build that can be played from start to finish, the 90+ hour long narrative magnum opus you think you're creating is a dull monotonous slog in places it's meant to be a bombastic pulse pounding adventure.
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Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Back from a long weekend in Yerevan. Mount Ararat is truly an impressive sight. Brought back some Armenian cognac which i shall be imbibing over the coming days.

So, not been keeping up with the news, although i saw Mike had another rage moment then raged about the community and got dumped on by the faithful for it. I guess his rose tinted glasses will go back on soon enough though.

Artists impression of Mike


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Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
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