The Open v Solo v Groups thread

Open pve.. yup I like that. With a toggle for pvp.
But It doesn't solve pad blocking or being rammed. Unless collision damage Is removed too in this mode.
I'd vote for open pve. IF it brings cmdrs together so the galaxy doesn't appear as empty as it is.
Pvp is a toggle.. which knowone has to do so both camps are catered for.
 
NMS does this to great success and that's is a proper open where you meet all the other weird platforms. I think Fdev won't do this because the instancing would break frequently.
 
Open pve.. yup I like that. With a toggle for pvp.
But It doesn't solve pad blocking or being rammed. Unless collision damage Is removed too in this mode.
I'd vote for open pve. IF it brings cmdrs together so the galaxy doesn't appear as empty as it is.
Pvp is a toggle.. which knowone has to do so both camps are catered for.
IMHO no switch is needed, Full Open and PvE Open with balanced rewards and influence (regarding BGS/PP) for each one
 
That and the fact that some don't want to accept that people are allowed to choose whom to play with, and some even want that be taken away.

Some people don't want a third party arbitrarily dictating who they play with.

Personally, if I have a problem with someone in a public or otherwise shared setting, I see it as my responsibility to remove myself from that setting rather than try to enforce my personal rules about who should be able to use that communal space.

Tools that operate by skewing matchmaking weights and fragmenting instances are indiscriminate and responsible for much grief.

As an afterthought: I think you just justified crappy behavior (i.e. not caring about other player's grief you cause) as okay as long as it's therapeutic....

Is that better or worse than outright denying the unavoidable implications of one's behavior?

The same routine everytime.

Undock in a hauler, start flying, another player appears, "hi other human, I'm hauling, want to come along and get free wing credits for swatting NPCs off me?"

No answer, my ship blows up. Rebuy, start again.

My CMDR's haulers have certainly been attacked, but my Open experience (which is essentially my entire ~9k hours in the game) has been overwhelmingly pro-social and more often co-operative than otherwise.

Maybe the offer of wing credits is offending people? I flatly stopped accepting invites for wing missions/trade because the reward multiplication is a seriously surrealistic absurdity that was threatening to trigger an aneurysm anytime I was presented with it. The blatantly out-of-character bribe to interact cheapens my overall experience.

It's even funnier when you see someone complain about griefing in Open, and these folk will jump on the comment saying "Go play Solo", then when people do go and play Solo, the same people complain about others being in Solo and demand everyone be forced into Open.

I have a feeling it's mostly not the same people.

Open pve.. yup I like that. With a toggle for pvp.
But It doesn't solve pad blocking or being rammed. Unless collision damage Is removed too in this mode.
I'd vote for open pve. IF it brings cmdrs together so the galaxy doesn't appear as empty as it is.
Pvp is a toggle.. which knowone has to do so both camps are catered for.

The existence of a toggle doesn't cater to my 'camp' (organic simulationists?) at all. I don't like having to opt-in to, or being able to opt-out of, risks I feel should be fundamental to the setting.

An Open PvE mode, in addition to the existing modes, would create a slightly problematic demographic shift (e.g. most of those my CMDR would come across in the PvP tolerant mode would assume I was looking for a fight, which is rarely the case), but it would be vastly preferable to a unified mode with a PvP toggle, which mixes groups playing by different rules within the same instances. Such a toggle takes the main issue I have with the mode system (their use a de facto difficulty setting, implicitly allowing unequal contributions to that setting based on mode) and makes them much harder to ignore.
 
After Griefer Fear, Gold Mining Fear, Eve-Fear, we now have:

Pad Blocking Fear; the Jaws: The Revenge of the Franchise
You say that as if it's new.

I remember the good old days when the Thargoids first attacked, and we had pad blocking because FD in their infinite wisdom made the decision to make rescue ships one-L-pad.

No idea if there was an even earlier instance, at Hutton propably.

sigh
 
You say that as if it's new.

I remember the good old days when the Thargoids first attacked, and we had pad blocking because FD in their infinite wisdom made the decision to make rescue ships one-L-pad.

No idea if there was an even earlier instance, at Hutton propably.

sigh

Pad blocking has been a thing in any multiplayer mode since multiplayer functionality was added. The same solutions exist now as then, the same issues of establishing intent (ie ignorance, accidental or deliberate) too.

Perhaps it's more prevalent now because medium & large ships are more readily available.

Any hypothetical Open PvE mode would be affected by this, a hypothetical Open Only game would exacerbate the issue because there would be no solo mode to switch to to dock.
 
I'm not having that discussion with you again.

There is a reason this is a forum post and not a PM. This discussion is implicitly targeted at the thread participants/forum as a whole.

I decide who I play with, and I am not a third party.

You are someone's third party. If you were to block, or otherwise manipulate instancing, to avoid interacting with someone, that someone is the second party, and every other person who is then instanced differently when the blocker and blockee are in the same game location at the same time is a third party. You don't need to know about them, and they don't need to know about you, for you to crap up their game, or vice versa.

I wasn't even talking about blocking, I was talking about mode choice.

Blocking definitely seemed to be one of the tools being referred to by the individual you quoted, which is the context I had when I quoted you.

No idea if there was an even earlier instance, at Hutton propably.

This was already about the 100th thread on the topic.

Pad blocking is another good example of potential third-party impact....e.g. someone blocks a pad to deny repair/rearm to their opponent's wing during a battle, it necessarily inconveniences everyone else who may want to use it.

I don't think I'll ever not be astonished by Frontier's neglect of this issue. In hindsight, it was a red flag I should have paid more attention to.

Pad blocking has been a thing in any multiplayer mode since multiplayer functionality was added. The same solutions exist now as then, the same issues of establishing intent (ie ignorance, accidental or deliberate) too.

Perhaps it's more prevalent now because medium & large ships are more readily available.

Any hypothetical Open PvE mode would be affected by this, a hypothetical Open Only game would exacerbate the issue because there would be no solo mode to switch to to dock.

It should really never come down to intent. Stations shouldn't be tolerating disruptions to trade and necessary supplies.

I mean, they'll blow you up for entering the docking barrel or not leaving a pad after launch...so why would allow a pad to be tied up indefinitely when other traffic needs to use it?
 
Some people don't want a third party arbitrarily dictating who they play with.

Personally, if I have a problem with someone in a public or otherwise shared setting, I see it as my responsibility to remove myself from that setting rather than try to enforce my personal rules about who should be able to use that communal space.

Tools that operate by skewing matchmaking weights and fragmenting instances are indiscriminate and responsible for much grief.



Is that better or worse than outright denying the unavoidable implications of one's behavior?



My CMDR's haulers have certainly been attacked, but my Open experience (which is essentially my entire ~9k hours in the game) has been overwhelmingly pro-social and more often co-operative than otherwise.

Maybe the offer of wing credits is offending people? I flatly stopped accepting invites for wing missions/trade because the reward multiplication is a seriously surrealistic absurdity that was threatening to trigger an aneurysm anytime I was presented with it. The blatantly out-of-character bribe to interact cheapens my overall experience.



I have a feeling it's mostly not the same people.



The existence of a toggle doesn't cater to my 'camp' (organic simulationists?) at all. I don't like having to opt-in to, or being able to opt-out of, risks I feel should be fundamental to the setting.

An Open PvE mode, in addition to the existing modes, would create a slightly problematic demographic shift (e.g. most of those my CMDR would come across in the PvP tolerant mode would assume I was looking for a fight, which is rarely the case), but it would be vastly preferable to a unified mode with a PvP toggle, which mixes groups playing by different rules within the same instances. Such a toggle takes the main issue I have with the mode system (their use a de facto difficulty setting, implicitly allowing unequal contributions to that setting based on mode) and makes them much harder to ignore.
You would have to add a toggle, If they made an official Open PVE mode and separate PvP Open mode the players in the later would have a meltdown.
Im going to guess nearly everyone would jump into the PVE version leaving the PvP server a ghost town.

O7
 
Pad blocking has been a thing in any multiplayer mode since multiplayer functionality was added. The same solutions exist now as then, the same issues of establishing intent (ie ignorance, accidental or deliberate) too.

Perhaps it's more prevalent now because medium & large ships are more readily available.

Any hypothetical Open PvE mode would be affected by this, a hypothetical Open Only game would exacerbate the issue because there would be no solo mode to switch to to dock.
I don't understand the possibility of site blocking at all. Why is it done that way? Isn't it a bug ? Even if I am not lowered into the hangar, still on takeoff I am lowered and turned around.
 
You are someone's third party. If you were to block, or otherwise manipulate instancing, to avoid interacting with someone, that someone is the second party, and every other person who is then instanced differently when the blocker and blockee are in the same game location at the same time is a third party. You don't need to know about them, and they don't need to know about you, for you to crap up their game, or vice versa.
yeah yeah yeah, everyone is always someone's third party. I said it before, I say it again: I don't care. I decide who I play with. If a third party has issues with it, take it up with them. If I host games night at my house with Bob, Jimmy, Frank and Timmy, and Bob behaves like ass, insults my mother and urinates on the pool table, I throw him out. If Jimmy, Frank and Timmy don't like it they are free to leave and play with Bob without me. But not at my house.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
.... a hypothetical Open Only game would exacerbate the issue because there would be no solo mode to switch to to dock.
Even in that situation there'd likely still be two Open(-PvP) modes in the Live game to choose from, as there are now - unless it was as part of a new DLC.
 
I don't understand the possibility of site blocking at all. Why is it done that way? Isn't it a bug ? Even if I am not lowered into the hangar, still on takeoff I am lowered and turned around.
That’s because there are a limited number of docking pads in each station’s instance. Let’s say are two small and one medium pads at an outpost. If I dock my Python, unload my cargo, complete my missions, peruse the station’s mission board, disembark to visit the concourse, persuade the kiosks there (both human shaped an non-), check Pioneer supplies for any modded equipment, fill my remaining cargo space… no other medium ship can dock in that instance until I undock.

Since I play in Open, that nobody likely to be instanced with me in Open will be able to dock until I either launch my ship or log out. So here’s the interesting question: Do I switch to solo while doing stuff, and possibly miss interacting with two other Commanders in small ships and probably forget to switch back? Or do I stay in Open and possibly annoy another player?
 
Even in that situation there'd likely still be two Open(-PvP) modes in the Live game to choose from, as there are now - unless it was as part of a new DLC.

I'm not an advocate for an Open Only game but in the proposals I've seen if there is another mode (whether it be PvE multiplayer or solo) BGS effects are disabled.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
I'm not an advocate for an Open Only game but in the proposals I've seen if there is another mode (whether it be PvE multiplayer or solo) BGS effects are disabled.
There have been many proposals over the years as regarding an Open play mode - noting that there is no compelling reason to remove access to the existing BGS from the existing three game modes when adding an Open only mode - as the new mode could be added with its own galaxy state, initially cloned from the existing shared galaxy, not shared with any other game mode.
 
There have been many proposals over the years as regarding an Open play mode - noting that there is no compelling reason to remove access to the existing BGS from the existing three game modes when adding an Open only mode - as the new mode could be added with its own galaxy state, initially cloned from the existing shared galaxy, not shared with any other game mode.
My concern with that idea when it was first floated was which 'galaxy state' gets classed as the 'canon' one for GALNET etc. How have folk been finding it post Odyssey?
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
My concern with that idea when it was first floated was which 'galaxy state' gets classed as the 'canon' one for GALNET etc.
That would be the tricky decision for Frontier to make - whichever way it went there would be unhappy players.
How have folk been finding it post Odyssey?
I haven't played anything but Live since the split so don't know - although posts regarding the lack of development of the console version show quite some frustration at the situation. Not that that would apply to an additional Open only galaxy state - as development would reasonably be deployed on both.
 
That’s because there are a limited number of docking pads in each station’s instance. Let’s say are two small and one medium pads at an outpost. If I dock my Python, unload my cargo, complete my missions, peruse the station’s mission board, disembark to visit the concourse, persuade the kiosks there (both human shaped an non-), check Pioneer supplies for any modded equipment, fill my remaining cargo space… no other medium ship can dock in that instance until I undock.
So if the ship's not on the pad, the pad's locked anyway?
 
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