Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
If the ship is either on the pad or in the hangar then the pad is unavailable.
The Open v Solo v Groups thread
- Thread starter Ozric
- Start date
What makes you think that?
I'm doubtful of this, unless they misleadingly label the PvP tolerant mode explicitly as a PvP mode.
That said, even if this were the case, the ghost town with more internally consistent rules is where I'd rather be. Few things shatter my sense of verisimilitude as fast as overtly gamist mechanisms...like some ships being able to deal and receive damage from others while others cannot.
That is my point.
A strawman scenario that bears no resemblance to anything I've seen anyone argue against anyone being able to do.
This game isn't analogous to your house. It's our house. If you don't like what some of the rest of us are doing, isolating yourself, or moving out, is the most reasonable course of action.
Personally, I'd keep the level of station traffic in mind and if I knew there were likely to be others waiting, I'd make my stay as brief as possible. Some waiting is reasonable, but taking a nap, or doing activities that could be done elsewhere, are not.
Isnt that what some folks want? Would they be misleading if they didn't say it was PvP enabled.
Im just expressing an opinion that given a choice folks would chose an Open PVE mode over the current Open mode where PvP is possible.
O7
It is not a strawman argument, neither in real life nor in Elite Dangerous. My game time, nay, lifetime is too limited and precious to spend it with people I don't like or don't want to play with, and no amount of "aaaakshually" will change it. And so far, Frontier seems to agree with that.
The game has too many conventions where you don't need them and few conventions where you need them to improve the game.
Logically, if an outpost has only 3 places, its spaceport should never have more than 3 people (not personnel).
I do that. By choosing Soio. And yet some are discontent with that and want to take away even that from me. But sure, I am the one trying to disrupt other players' gameplay.
I'm glad you've had a better experience than most.
More recently I'm not sure about it. But back when the Mods spent hour upon hour merging threads you used to see quite clearly it was the same names.
Because in General discussion you'd get someone complaining they'd been blown up and the game was overrun with gankers etc, etc.
And the most common response was "Go and play Solo if you don't like playing with others"
And it would devolve into a modes conversation, so it would get merged into the modes chat.
This is how the first SOG thread was born; the Mods merging posts into the same thread.
So sometimes the comment would end up on the same page as them posting in SOG directly "The BGS should be disconnected from Solo/PG or the mode system should be removed"
It was spectacular, to see their web of lies about improving the game come crashing down around them. All they wanted was more unwilling soft targets.
But as I said, I'm not sure if anyone has been caught at it recently. As I rarely use the general discussion forum now.
But it was most certainly a thing in the SOG days.
The NPCs are on a cycle, so when one lands and enters the hanger. It either takes off again immediately or despawns freeing the pad up for another user.
However in your station there, if 3 humans took a pad each, entered the hangar and went AFK. Those pads and that station are useless in that instance.
You can either jump to SC and drop back in, hopefully creating a new instance with empty pads or log in to another mode and force a new instance.
I'm sure there are some folks that want anything I can imagine and much that I can't.
There is a difference between PvP enabled and PvP focused, with a corresponding difference between those that are PvP tolerant and those who make their entire game revolve around it.
How the modes are presented matters. I'd rather not play in a mode where everyone is automatically assuming my CMDR is there to be shot, just because he can be shot. I won't play in a mode where my CMDR cannot be shot.
I'm sure a large number of people would choose an 'Open PvE' mode. I'm much less convinced that it would be an overwhelming majority.
The comparison between an online-only multiplayer game with a shared setting, where your contributions to said setting aren't even stored on hardware you control, and your real-life private property is a specious one. Presenting these scenarios as analogous, for the sake of these arguments, is an archetypal strawman.
I'm not sure what I've said that could have given you the impression I disagree with that statement in the slightest.
If Frontier agreed with that, we'd have an offline mode, and effective, properly targeted, policing of disruptive non-contextual player behavior in the online modes.
Frontier providing players with tools to forcibly impose their arbitrary filters upon the instancing of all third parties connecting with the first party while implicitly skewing the instancing of all third parties connecting with the second party--which is what I've been arguing against and what some posts you've explicitly lauded were referring to--isn't even vaguely similar to the scenarios you've presented. Frontier's system for Open (and PG, to a lesser extent) can only give players control over their experience by allowing them to sabotage the experience of third party peers (i.e. those not directly subject to a block); this doesn't reduce the number of players who have to contend with those they do not like or do not want to play with, it increases it, as it's a silent weight to instancing that is nearly untraceable.
Then there is no problem, if Solo is the mode you'd choose regardless. Though you still cannot excise the shared components of this game that do not rely on direct instancing, or your own impact upon them.
Solo is also not an alternative for those intent on directly interacting with other player characters.
I think most of those that have a problem with Solo take issue with it's use as a de facto reduced difficulty setting, not with people who want to avoid social interactions they find unpleasant.
Personally, I think there should be a wholly offline/private sever/client package that anyone can sync (in a read-only sense) with the online BGS and mod as they see fit. In addition to that, the NPC traffic and opposition across all shared online modes should be dynamically scaled so that the mean influence and profitability per player hour is similar, no matter which mode one chooses for any activity (e.g. it should not be faster or easier to deliver cargo to a CG station in Solo than it is in Open...if it is, then Solo has neither enough NPC congestion nor sufficient NPC pirates/commerce raiders, while Open has too many networking and traffic control issues).
I haven't accused you of trying to disrupt other players' gameplay in this exchange. I've accused you of (in addition to having some really poor analogies) being indifferent to, or outright condoning, some forms of crappy behavior, while condemning others, without there being any clear distinction in degree of harm.
I'm not convinced my general experience is atypical.
I've certainly seen a number of accounts like your own, where people are dissuaded from Open by repeated unpleasant encounters, but there is a major selection bias in assuming that such accounts are representative of the majority.
Likewise, I strongly suspect the individuals simply looking for more unwilling soft targets were always a very tiny subset of those with complaints about Solo/PG. And the intent, even of those individuals, is immaterial for any argument capable of standing on it's own.
Clearly, if forcing CMDRs to be unwilling soft targets is undesirable, an unrestricted Open mode, as the only way to play the game, is a non-starter. But that doesn't detract from the criticisms of the mode system we have, or how it's been implemented.
You may be right, which is why is it so unfortunate they are the loudest voices heard when it comes to making genuine PvP QoL improvements to the game.
The second someone asks for PvP improvements, bam! All the screams demanding forcing people into Open, locking content to Open, nerfing content in Solo and PGs and none of it would improve PvP in the slightest. But it's all we see and hear.
See you're going to have to walk me through this one because there isn't really any real criticism of the mode system.
All I've ever seen, since day 1 of the game, is the "very tiny subset" screeching about the fact they cannot shoot people in Solo and PG's.
And as you said "unwilling soft targets is undesirable".
So remove the whole idea of unwilling people being in front of someone else's guns and explain to me what issues the mode system actually has with the game.
Does anyone really need to walk you through the criticism of the modes system?
I think the majority of us know that there is a small group who object vociferously to any player being able to be in anything but open, for 'reasons' (which may be anything or nothing) ranging from immersion to target deprivation...
I have tried to resist commenting here, succeeded for a while, because it still strikes me as ridiculous that anyone could complain of being shot in open, unwillingly, when there are 2 other modes where this is impossible to occur.
Clicking "Open" on the start menu is a tacit agreement that a player may be interacted with by other players, which may not be a cheery "o7" in passing. If a player does not agree that they may be a target, why are they going there?
ETA: sorry, this sounds harsh rather than a simple statement.
FD never introduced a PvE 'open' and are unlikely to do so, so a player either plays open to meet people, or uses a group to play with like-minded individuals, or has solo to just chill entirely.
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I think you missed my point, especially as it was towards someone asking for open to be treated as if it is more important than Solo / PG.
Hence me asking them to walk me through the problems, that do not include shooting people. (because if you remove that idea, there isn't any problem - the point I'm making)
Sorry, I missed that hackneyed old lemon - a touch of the TLDR on the responses to you.
No worries, I've done it myself so I know how easy it is.
Great answers though, you want to copy-paste it into a save file for later, because at some point you'll need it for real
In my translation it sounds like this : Open PvE will keep people from getting to know each other.
I'm not sure how you made that leap, as an Open PvE would give everyone plenty of time to get to know each other - as we wait for hours for places to dock at busy ports.
Not quiet, what Rat Catcher meant is that currently the only way to reliably to meet folks in game is in Open mode unless you join a Private Group like Mobius which is Open but with PVE Rules.
O7
As there is no dedicated PvE mode, the current open mode is the most likely to provide new friends, and enemies, of course