Elite Dangerous | Powerplay 2.0 Update

[svanyali]

I'm curious what metric you're using?

Let's assume it takes, say, 60 seconds to finish abrasion blastering all the interior surface deposits(probably way too fast, but let's make this as bad for the clipper as possible).

Then, let's assume that collector limpets can grab a fragment in, say, 20 seconds. At most you're looking at 15 fragments released initially, which means with the Clipper's 8 collectors(you forgot a surface scanner) it only takes you about 40 seconds to have already collected all the fragments initially released, and you'll have excess limpets for the remaining 20 seconds.

IE, there's no difference in time between the two. If anything, the fact the clipper can turn ~40% faster means you'll actually finish mining the core ~40% faster, as well.

You might be surprised when it comes to speed, as well. There are a few that can get way up there, but when doing so they're so mass-limited, all they can effectively do is race. When it comes to speed combined with effectiveness, the only real competition the Clipper has is the Mamba.

I'm honestly surprised how much people underrate the clipper. It's very good in the right circumstances.

I didn't forget a Detailed Surface Scanner, it is there.
Doing a Multi on this Clipper https://s.orbis.zone/qEpm
vs
Doing a Multi on these Python https://s.orbis.zone/qEpq and Type-8 https://s.orbis.zone/qEpr
Python has a better distributor, more limpets, better scanners, more mining lasers and can land at a medium pad. Type-8 actually has more cargo, can land at a medium pad and has more mining lasers. Clipper only single best trait is it's speed, for landing at a large pad only you are better off with an Anaconda, Corvette, Type-9 or Cutter. Python, Type-9 and Anaconda aren't locked behind Empire or Federation grinds either. Type-8 is easily purchasable via Arx or earnable through weekly Arx (while it'd take a while it can be earned.) By the time you have the grind for a Clipper you'll already have a way better ship anyway.
Speed is a minor aspect to mining, not worth noting. More so going that fast, you also have to slow yourself down. Which is why 500 is more then enough.
Splatter https://s.orbis.zone/qEpv is faster then the Clipper

 

[DemiserofD]

I didn't forget a Detailed Surface Scanner, it is there.
Doing a Multi on this Clipper https://s.orbis.zone/qEpm
vs
Doing a Multi on these Python https://s.orbis.zone/qEpq and Type-8 https://s.orbis.zone/qEpr
Python has a better distributor, more limpets, better scanners, more mining lasers and can land at a medium pad. Type-8 actually has more cargo, can land at a medium pad and has more mining lasers. Clipper only single best trait is it's speed, for landing at a large pad only you are better off with an Anaconda, Corvette, Type-9 or Cutter. Python, Type-9 and Anaconda aren't locked behind Empire or Federation grinds either. Type-8 is easily purchasable via Arx or earnable through weekly Arx (while it'd take a while it can be earned.) By the time you have the grind for a Clipper you'll already have a way better ship anyway.
Speed is a minor aspect to mining, not worth noting. More so going that fast, you also have to slow yourself down. Which is why 500 is more then enough.
Splatter https://s.orbis.zone/qEpv is faster then the Clipper

For core mining, distributor doesn't matter. Also, you would never bring lasers along for core mining in the first place; laser mining only makes sense in pristine metallic rings, and otherwise is only going to slow you down and have you acquire less cores.

Sorry, but it's just that none of that matters. This is a case where literally only speed and agility matters.

 

[Zeruel1223]

I'm curious what metric you're using?

Let's assume it takes, say, 60 seconds to finish abrasion blastering all the interior surface deposits(probably way too fast, but let's make this as bad for the clipper as possible).

Then, let's assume that collector limpets can grab a fragment in, say, 20 seconds. At most you're looking at 15 fragments released initially, which means with the Clipper's 8 collectors(you forgot a surface scanner) it only takes you about 40 seconds to have already collected all the fragments initially released, and you'll have excess limpets for the remaining 20 seconds.

IE, there's no difference in time between the two. If anything, the fact the clipper can turn ~40% faster means you'll actually finish mining the core ~40% faster, as well.

You might be surprised when it comes to speed, as well. There are a few that can get way up there, but when doing so they're so mass-limited, all they can effectively do is race. When it comes to speed combined with effectiveness, the only real competition the Clipper has is the Mamba.

I'm honestly surprised how much people underrate the clipper. It's very good in the right circumstances.

Why does core mining matter again? Laser mining gets you more tons of material faster, and more credits per hour. Shouldn't the merits per hour be similarly higher?

Since you have to turn in mined materials in the exact same system you mined in to get merits (bug?), why would you want to limit yourself to a large ship instead of a medium ship?

Since when does a limpet take 20 seconds to grab anything? Is your fragment 3k meters away? If so, why?

Granted I hadn't considered turn speed for core mining but again, I'm not sure why we're core mining.

 

[Gabriel H]

Does Frontier actually truly depend upon EliteDangerous 'customers' though?

For context. Planet Zoo and Planet Coaster (1) sold about 2 - 3 million copies each within 2 years. ED has sold about 5.5m in 10 years.

 

[DemiserofD]

Why does core mining matter again? Laser mining gets you more tons of material faster, and more credits per hour. Shouldn't the merits per hour be similarly higher?

Since you have to turn in mined materials in the exact same system you mined in to get merits (bug?), why would you want to limit yourself to a large ship instead of a medium ship?

Since when does a limpet take 20 seconds to grab anything? Is your fragment 3k meters away? If so, why?

Granted I hadn't considered turn speed for core mining but again, I'm not sure why we're core mining.

That's actually exactly why core mining is more relevant than ever. Pristine metallic rings are quite rare, and since you now need to mine in-system, it's the defacto way to mine for powerplay. Of course, in some cases only a medium pad is available, but in most cases you probably would prefer the faster mining and greater profits of a large pad.

As for the limpet collection speed; I agree, I was just showing why limpet collection speed isn't really relevant for core mining.

 

[photomankc]

I love it. Gamers man. Eliminating exploits and grind farms is "OMG NERF". No. Stopping people from dumping their exploit-farmed data is not nerfing. Limiting rares so that it is not the only possible answer to nearly every situation is not nerfing. It is correcting.

I hope other areas will get attention like settlement work that is far more intricate and time consuming to pull off being better rewarded and maybe some ethos related changes that add flavor to it. But rare's being the new merit-sniping activity genuinely made the whole experiance suck.

Yeah they did nerf the exploration data and genetic stuff and I have mixed reaction. They certainly should have showed more foresight and planned on how to handle that up-front but those are outside activities that now have nice secondary payoffs for them in PP. Im not sure the idea of industrialized exploration ("I want to make the same per hour as people fighting in the system combat zones") for merit grind was the vision to start with.

 

[Zeruel1223]

But for the purpose of this discussion: the overwhelming vast majority of players had relatively easy access to PP modules prior to PP 2.0.

You had to be playing, and experienced enough at the game to be participating in PP 1.0, for a half year minimum for this to really be true (I'm basically saying only six of the PP modules actually matter at all). That may not seem like much time to you, idk, I started playing in like March I think, but wasn't experienced enough to feel like participating in PP until like May or so? June? So I had to make choices on priorities, and ended up not unlocking pack hounds in time for PP 2.0 release. Luckily I had most of the other important modules unlocked, and got pacifiers the day before 2.0.

 

[Zeruel1223]

That's actually exactly why core mining is more relevant than ever. Pristine metallic rings are quite rare, and since you now need to mine in-system, it's the defacto way to mine for powerplay. Of course, in some cases only a medium pad is available, but in most cases you probably would prefer the faster mining and greater profits of a large pad.

As for the limpet collection speed; I agree, I was just showing why limpet collection speed isn't really relevant for core mining.

Got it. Yeah that makes sense I think, IDK i haven't had the time to compare basic haz res mining to core mining yet. I'll have to take your word for it I guess? Because I'm not sure how much pristine boosts output vs haz res vs hotspots.

 

[svanyali]

For core mining, distributor doesn't matter. Also, you would never bring lasers along for core mining in the first place; laser mining only makes sense in pristine metallic rings, and otherwise is only going to slow you down and have you acquire less cores.

Sorry, but it's just that none of that matters. This is a case where literally only speed and agility matters.

Sadly that's like saying weapon placement is better then anything else, so aiming has the better option. So Python and Type-8 win because of the placements on the weapons.
Both speed and Aiming are just one small minor aspect to mining and have no real impact when you can aim and go pretty fast regardless.

 

[svanyali]

Why does core mining matter again? Laser mining gets you more tons of material faster, and more credits per hour. Shouldn't the merits per hour be similarly higher?

Since you have to turn in mined materials in the exact same system you mined in to get merits (bug?), why would you want to limit yourself to a large ship instead of a medium ship?

Since when does a limpet take 20 seconds to grab anything? Is your fragment 3k meters away? If so, why?

Granted I hadn't considered turn speed for core mining but again, I'm not sure why we're core mining.

Honestly mapped mining in a res area with laser mining is just so rewarding, for sure need a combo of mining and combat build though. Easily done with a Corvette, Anaconda, Cutter and even the Python can. I can say laser mining is for sure more rewarding and way better.

 

[DemiserofD]

Sadly that's like saying weapon placement is better then anything else, so aiming has the better option. So Python and Type-8 win because of the placements on the weapons.
Both speed and Aiming are just one small minor aspect to mining and have no real impact when you can aim and go pretty fast regardless.

In practice, you probably spend the majority of your time core mining just traveling and looking for cores. That's why speed is so useful here.

Basically, the main reasons people tend to dump on the Clipper is because it does lack in some ways compared to other ship - but if you look deeper, you'll find that what it lacks doesn't really matter, while what it offers is extraordinarily important(in certain cases).

Same reason it's super good for AXCZs. Sure, it doesn't have the same DPS as other options, but the fact you can boost to 640 and get from interceptor to interceptor in a fraction of the time, and still deal ENOUGH damage when you get there, means that combined with its c7 repair limpet controller it ends up being a surprising dark horse.

 

[svanyali]

In practice, you probably spend the majority of your time core mining just traveling and looking for cores. That's why speed is so useful here.

Basically, the main reasons people tend to dump on the Clipper is because it does lack in some ways compared to other ship - but if you look deeper, you'll find that what it lacks doesn't really matter, while what it offers is extraordinarily important(in certain cases).

Same reason it's super good for AXCZs. Sure, it doesn't have the same DPS as other options, but the fact you can boost to 640 and get from interceptor to interceptor in a fraction of the time, and still deal ENOUGH damage when you get there, means that combined with its c7 repair limpet controller it ends up being a surprising dark horse.

Chieftain is better at AXCZ's, Python and Type-8 are better at laser and deep core mining. 500 again is still more then enough with a Pulse Scanner. Also as both Python and Type-8 can land at a Medium I can actually earn more as you do get more most the times from the smaller stations a Clipper for example couldn't land at. Mach Jesus is better left to the racing professionals, as speeding through anything with mining will only lead to slower yields over all.

 

[Daniel Cloudsifter]

I love it. Gamers man. Eliminating exploits and grind farms is "OMG NERF". No. Stopping people from dumping their exploit-farmed data is not nerfing. Limiting rares so that it is not the only possible answer to nearly every situation is not nerfing. It is correcting.

I hope other areas will get attention like settlement work that is far more intricate and time consuming to pull off being better rewarded and maybe some ethos related changes that add flavor to it. But rare's being the new merit-sniping activity genuinely made the whole experiance suck.

Yeah they did nerf the exploration data and genetic stuff and I have mixed reaction. They certainly should have showed more foresight and planned on how to handle that up-front but those are outside activities that now have nice secondary payoffs for them in PP. Im not sure the idea of industrialized exploration ("I want to make the same per hour and people fighting in the system combat zones") for merit grind was the vision to start with.

Actually, a lot of us complaining gamers have been saying the same thing. I don't think rares should be something you can pump and dump with a carrier, but their value in merits certainly made running a 3 to 5 point trade route in a Type-8 (or other medium ship) fun again.

Before rares were hit, all I asked for was for carrier stored rares to be stamped to prevent the massive dumping (and bypassing the spirit of the rare quantity limit). But more importantly, I stressed that other activities should give equal or MORE merits. Running actual PP materials, combating enemy PvP ships, or downloading PP data (without duping) and uploading malware should all give a LOT more merits. Heck, even trading mass quantities of normal commodities (assuming decent profit for fortification or loss for undermining) should reward more.

And I'm sorry, the exploration nerf was just dumb. If someone has been out in the black that long, let them get a decent reward. I have no problem with them hitting max rank with their data dump, but the effect on actual PP fortification should probably be limited.

And that is another part of this whole mess - why are the merits we earn for ranks the same amount as the fortification/undermining value? You could fix a lot of the PP panic (as certain systems were rapidly undermined by the data duplication exploit) if there was a different ratio than 1:1. Some activities should count more for fortification/undermining than merits and vice versa.

You should be able to earn ranks fairly quickly or else this is another grind. Worse, it's a grind you may be forced to repeat if you accidentally choose the wrong power and have to start over.

 

[Mrc_NorthEast]

Does Frontier actually truly depend upon EliteDangerous 'customers' though?

Well Fdev have not said that they do or do not. So anyone saying yea or nea is stating their subjective opinion, unless there is a statement from Fdev saying otherwise. However as far as I know, Fdev as a company started with an Elite rewrite/sequel, try googling "the+history+of+frontier+developments" to see for yourself. So would Fdev be where they are today without the Elite franchise? I think that is the question.

And back on topic: Power Play is one of the many parts of the Elite universe. I am glad the exploit(s) were stopped and that we are getting an update tomorrow.

 

[Milady]

For context. Planet Zoo and Planet Coaster (1) sold about 2 - 3 million copies each within 2 years. ED has sold about 5.5m in 10 years.

Well in this case, imagine FDev loses, I don't know, let's say round about $200 million (5.5 million copies × $30-$40?). How will they react? Would they lack the money or would they also say, well it's only $200 million. Not noticeable. But if it is painfully missing, that means they are dependent on the customers. Even if it's just ED ones.

 

[Milady]

I am glad the exploit(s) were stopped and that we are getting an update tomorrow.

Tomorrow already? Are you sure?

 

[Daniel Cloudsifter]

Well Fdev have not said that they do or do not. So anyone saying yea or nea is stating their subjective opinion, unless there is a statement from Fdev saying otherwise. However as far as I know, Fdev as a company started with an Elite rewrite/sequel, try googling "the+history+of+frontier+developments" to see for yourself. So would Fdev be where they are today without the Elite franchise? I think that is the question.

And back on topic: Power Play is one of the many parts of the Elite universe. I am glad the exploit(s) were stopped and that we are getting an update tomorrow.

Yes, they fixed the data duplication exploit. They also officially announced the SLF merit nerf they've already implemented. They said nothing about rares.

 

[sacred aardvark]

We have identified an issue where certain actions are being excessively used for Powerplay gains.

In order to investigate and resolve this issue we are temporarily suspending Powerplay gains via the following methods:

• Rare Goods Trading

Once we have resolved this issue these options will be enabled again.

What, the actual, hockey puck?!

Was the issue that people were actually getting merits without wanting to tear their eyeballs out and shove a metal rod in one ear and out the other? Just in case you are actually this oblivious... the problem with players focusing on rare goods wasn't rare goods giving too many merits; the problem was everything else being worth as much as month old garbage and about as fun as sorting through some. I can see people cheesing escape pods, because doing them legit to earn merits is a joke.

The whole system feels quite , after having been exited for it pre-launch. I need to do specific activities in specific systems in a specific way to get merits I specifically only need to unlock rank rewards for a specific power (and if like me you figure out after three days of grinding that you picked the wrong one; well tough luck dumbo, go grind again from the beginning); and most of those are either annoying, not worth it for the merits, or not something I'm interested in currently(combat). Just doing the first week forced missions I wanted to punch the designers in the crotch to show my appreciation of the mandatory activities to even start the PP (this should have been my hint to skip the system tbh, mb).

Though to be fair, I don't even have a god forsaken clue on what all things allegedly give merits... I think mining is supposed to but it's covered with so many caveats to be worthless. Trading regular cargo might do stuff if you want to spend your life staring at inara and the galaxy map. I found a nice trade trip I could do for rare goods, felt it was a bit boring but hey it was just barely above tolerable for merits / time so I could get some rank rewards before I leave the bubble for colonia... but that mediocre progress was apparently completely unacceptable to you?

I had been enjoying myself somewhat having recently returned to Elite... despite wasting two weeks accidentally playing legacy because I didn't know any better returning after couple years... and based on reports that you'd seemed to have learned your lesson that tedium isn't enjoyable for most people. Materials farming had felt better too with the higher droprates and added drop spots in some farm locations.
However it seems that was incorrect and you still insist on long grinds for minor rewards. I had been planning on buying Odyssey, hell even throwing some ARX at the mandalay and type-8, but think I'll forget that for now; it's not like I'd use any Odyssey content what with the absolute trash VR implementation you have for on-foot gameplay (come on, the camera foolery gimmick someone came up with would be plenty ); while not having fixed the orbital lines rendering in VR to only left eye bug in several months, doesn't inspire me with desire to throw money your way either...

 

[Mrc_NorthEast]

Tomorrow already? Are you sure?

Yes it is here: - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threa...ndancy-update-1-thursday-21st-november.630523

 

[DemiserofD]

Chieftain is better at AXCZ's, Python and Type-8 are better at laser and deep core mining. 500 again is still more then enough with a Pulse Scanner. Also as both Python and Type-8 can land at a Medium I can actually earn more as you do get more most the times from the smaller stations a Clipper for example couldn't land at. Mach Jesus is better left to the racing professionals, as speeding through anything with mining will only lead to slower yields over all.

I mean, believe whatever you want to believe, I guess. I do know what I'm talking about, though. I've managed 800 tons per hour of painite back during the painite days. I've done hundreds of AXCZs solo, as well.

People always undervalue speed, but it's worth its weight in gold.

Anyway, I feel like I've laid out my points pretty respectably and all you've really said is 'no', so I guess there's nowhere to go from here. Ciao.