Yes just a few
And a bit of mining as wellWhy does a system that does not comply to your ideas be classified as
??????
Opinion: 10 LY range for colonization is ridiculously low.
- Thread starter Agony_Aunt
- Start date
And a bit of mining as wellWhy does a system that does not comply to your ideas be classified as
I'm posting this here and not in the official colonization questions thread because I didn't want to give FD any ideas.
On the outward bound led of the Distant Worlds 2 expedition many years ago, we unexpectedly encountered hostile NPCs in the Conflux settlement site in PRU AESCS NC-M D7-192 - thousands of light years away from the Bubble.
One of the participating commanders (stupidly) fired at some relic or monument and the NPC ships came. Remember, the great majority of the commander's explorer ships had super thin armor, barely any shields and no weapons at all. Fortunately, a few hard headed ones disregarded the explorer dogma of "You don't need any weapons in the Black" and came fully armed & shielded, including some members of the then newly formed Hull Seals.
Here's what I'm wondering - will all those colonies to be established way out there change some BGS balance so that hostile NPC ships will be the norm rather than a rare exception in the future?
On the outward bound led of the Distant Worlds 2 expedition many years ago, we unexpectedly encountered hostile NPCs in the Conflux settlement site in PRU AESCS NC-M D7-192 - thousands of light years away from the Bubble.
One of the participating commanders (stupidly) fired at some relic or monument and the NPC ships came. Remember, the great majority of the commander's explorer ships had super thin armor, barely any shields and no weapons at all. Fortunately, a few hard headed ones disregarded the explorer dogma of "You don't need any weapons in the Black" and came fully armed & shielded, including some members of the then newly formed Hull Seals.
Here's what I'm wondering - will all those colonies to be established way out there change some BGS balance so that hostile NPC ships will be the norm rather than a rare exception in the future?
Interesting question. NPCs can still spawn outside inhabited systems within a certain radius of them? If so, what's the radius? I think it used to be 500LY but then got reduced... or maybe i'm imagining things.
I still remember bumping into some pirates out by the Pleiades before it was colonized and as I had nothing on my they said "How do you make a living?" And i'm like... erm, exploring. How do you make a living trying to steal from ships far from inhabited space?
I'd like to know too, maybe someone has the answer. Posting the map by Kamzel of Waypoint 3 where we ran into NPC trouble.
The fact you liked Ian's post above suggests you actually don't disagree with my stance here.Yes just a few
Why does a system that does not comply to your ideas be classified as
??????
What makes a system a weird edge-case is when it's a reductive situation in what's meant to be a procedural system.
Pick a random, central system in the bubble. A thriving system, billions in population, and surrounded by other systems with many billions more. When you go to the mission board, you might see two dozen delivery jobs, and the most you'll find to any one destination is maybe two or three, and it'll create a dozen different flavours and types of mission. That's the BGS at work, creating a variety of different activities to simulate a "living, dynamic world".
Then go to a small extraction outpost of just a thousand people... the only neighbour for 20Ly being another industrial colony of a thousand odd. You'd expect to only find a couple odd jobs. Nope. Because this is a reductive situation, instead of two or three missions to deliver to that neighbouring system... it'll be the two dozen that are meant to be spread over multiple different destinations, but because there's only one option, it's all to that one destination.
In terms of min-maxing, these are the gold-mines because you can stack dozens of missions to the one location... but the problem is this: It's not driven by economic boom/investment. It's not driven by opportunistic situations created by the BGS. It's simply because you've reduced the available options for an otherwise random choice down to 1. And so all the BGS can do is create a homogenous mission board, lacking in the variation that's meant to occur.
It's the same for massacre missions using tools like this. Having a host of "massacre pirate" missions all targeting the one faction in the one system isn't based on pirate activity, security situation or other factors. It's based on the fact there's only one choice to target when generating pirate massacres.
These are meant to be dynamic, procedural activities. But due to flaws in the design, they're homogenous and static. That's not what a procedural system is meant to do.
It also doesn't make sense logically. The best bounty hunting should be in the locations where piracy is rife, lockdowns are common and commercial pockets are deep and rich. But it's not, it's where there's literally the least-dense pirate population. The best places to ship minerals should be where a a single extraction system has a dozen different industrial neighbours who are all in desperate need for that one supply to pick them. But it's not... it's the small, lone high-tech system of 1,000 people surrounded by dozens of extraction economies in an overly-saturated market.
In short, a procedural system is meant to create "bound randomness"... but if that randomness is bound so tight it means it's actually not random anymore... then it's not a procedural system anymore.
These are the systems Ian describes as boring, they're all weird edge-cases which create the situations i've described above... which favour specific, stackable activities which all support or detract a particular faction, and prevent generation of other missions.
And I don't think it will make people happy, bluntly. Maybe a small handful, but not many.
I agree... though I'd counter that a system within 10Ly-20Ly of another system would be harder to tailor to those conditions, than one started well beyond the bubble, where you get almost all of that for free to start with.
From how I interpret what they said about tiered construction this is kinda solved by forcing you to build orbital installations and such before you can support and build a big station.
The last point about minimizing passing traffic is the only thing that could be controlled by building all your stuff at some 200kLy B star that people won't bother traveling to, but with SCO even that might not be enough.
As I recall:
- default appearance of NPCs is solely inside populated systems
- mission enemies and "tasty cargo" pirates who are specifically after you can appear in supercruise outside inhabited systems but I think only in two fixed 500LY bubbles centred on Sol and Colonia (obviously the Colonia-centred one containing a lot more empty space). Both have to be triggered by a personal condition so won't appear for a generic exploring player.
- POI interactions can cause NPCs to appear in normal space sometimes but only around that POI (e.g. tourist beacons in deep space have passenger liners visiting)
- you've also got the various Thargoid-affected regions, all near the bubble, but they're mainly found inside POIs.
So I wouldn't expect colonisation to affect that all that much in terms of what happens in the uninhabited space between inhabited systems.
To be honest it looks like all this BGS is way above what I want to bother about, whether my occasional actions affect it or not it does not worry me.
If deep space colonisation does not become a viable option then I shall have to find another way to unload all these billions I keep accumulating
Who defines what is "boring"?
We do according to our own tastes.
The arguments against a long range are really starting to remind me of complaints that happen when a previously PvP only MMO adds PvE servers. "Force the other players to come to me, I shouldn't have to work to go to them!" In before "colonization should be open only", I guess.
Boring systems? You mean more generic PP and BGS systems in a bubble that has thousands already?
Boring systems? You mean more generic PP and BGS systems in a bubble that has thousands already?
Was there a tourist beacon there? If so, that will explain the NPC presence in deep space.
Cool map btw!
I could use a new apartment...
Not to mention Apex will drop you off at the nearest TTauri...
Sometimes I like a person's post because they make a good argument, even if i don't agree with it. For example, I usually disagree with @Rubbernuke and @Rebel Yell on their stance on open only, but i'll give them a like for a well made argument.
And? Some people will like it, how many we don't know, but why is that a problem for people who want to be in BGS range? They can simply colonize systems in BGS range. Extending the range doesn't hurt anyone, it increases the number of people who might be interested in the feature.
The Oxford English Dictionary?