Is Cobra mk5 op?

[the100thmonkey]

Some people ^^^^ miss that point.

So no actual response. How fitting.

 

[Knuttin Atoll]

It's optional. OPTIONAL. That means nobody has to be happy about it except the people that are happy about it. You can just go "huh, well I wouldn't pay that, I can't believe all these other fools are doing that!" and you can go about your business taking advantage of all that investment without having to pay a penny.

Since it's all upside that way, "what I find baffling" is that anyone could complain about that at all.

Currently it is still, yes. And if you're patient, you can wait it out.

Frontier have tested the waters (it started with the introduction of Arx a few years ago), and the results/feedback must be encouraging. I'd be surprised if they don't push further into that direction going forward. But hey, if people enjoy riding on the slippery slope, I will just have to let them get on with it.

 

[Rat Catcher]

What I find baffling is how quickly the new monetisation model has become accepted and even celebrated by the player/customer base.

I like new ships, I don't mind paying less than the price of a pizza to "WIN!" by flying a new ship a few months before being able to by it for credits

Let's not forget that these ships are already behind a paywall (Odyssey)

Hard life, isn't it? Horizons had new ships behind its paywall too...

I got burned by Odyssey, and the broken 4.0 engine rendering most cosmetics incorrectly for a substantial time, and some even to this very day, Iridescent for example).

My Iridescent Scorch Phantom PJ is certainly not rendering incorrectly, hasn't been for at least a year or so... Maybe I'm lucky, or just only play Odyssey since launch (as well as early access), so have seen when things change?

As for the live service game aspect - I only see the downsides (server issues, lag, questionable monetisation decisions) and little in terms of upsides (regular, quality updates and that includes both new content and QoL/bugfixing work on an ongoing basis). So not sure it's the best argument imo.

Perhaps FD should charge a subscription to pay for their server costs, and further development, rather than sell 4 ships (to date) for a tenner each...

 

[Knuttin Atoll]

My Iridescent Scorch Phantom PJ is certainly not rendering incorrectly, hasn't been for at least a year or so... Maybe I'm lucky, or just only play Odyssey since launch (as well as early access), so have seen when things change?

Iridescent paints had a metallic finish in 3.8. They're all matte/semi-gloss in 4.0. I guess your latter assumption applies here.

Perhaps FD should charge a subscription to pay for their server costs, and further development, rather than sell 4 ships (to date) for a tenner each...

I'd love to see it, if only out of curiosity about whether Frontier would be able to walk the walk - because expectations will most certainly increase of what a sub-funded game should deliver on a regular basis - single example being the ongoing server wobbles and intermittent freezes that I doubt people would accept if they'd have to pay a monthly fee.

 

[nanothargon]

I'm wondering if the defenders of FDev's latest monetisation model managed to get the game for next to nothing, which would explain their laissez faire attitude somewhat. I just feel being squeezed, given my payment history with the company. And yes, maybe my (former) whale-ness just isn't the target audience any longer.

I was an original kickstarter backer, backing for much more than the full-price cost of the released games. I strongly support the new Arx strategy and (personally) a subscription would also be fine by me. I trust Frontier, and I want the game to continue. I understand that this means I will need to keep funding the game.

I would rather pay for the game than have it be “free” i.e. funded by ads or unsustainable. This (Arx) is a great way to achieve that.

 

[Rat Catcher]

Iridescent paints had a metallic finish in 3.8. They're all matte/semi-gloss in 4.0. I guess your latter assumption applies here.

I agree, the finish differs between versions - I was considering that for a while after EDO launch the finish was totally broken (block colours, no changes)

But, at least they are better now, and look very good. The lighting in EDO was changed from that in Legacy, for better or worse...

I'd love to see it, if only out of curiosity about whether Frontier would be able to walk the walk - because expectations will most certainly increase of what a sub-funded game should deliver on a regular basis - single example being the ongoing server wobbles and intermittent freezes that I doubt people would accept if they'd have to pay a monthly fee.

Subs would kil the game... Look how much resistance there is to spending a tenner for each of 4 ships there has been, actually paying to play would bring tears to many, judging by the reaction from some forum members over the years to such an outrageous idea. (and I'm one of the ones who would not pay to play, did that with WoW foor 2 years, never again)

For free, the servers are about as good as it gets, maybe?

 

[aRJay]

The true test is when you ask a friend to play ED for the first time and let him go about getting his first million credits. Old timers restarting again is a very deceptive benchmark since all that accumulated knowledge of how to do things and get money quick are still there. Unless of course you have amnesia

(and no cheating please, don't spoon feed him those YouTube tutorials)

Unless you like winding them up, in which case you feed them the outdated/wrong tutorials.

 

[aRJay]

What I find baffling is how quickly the new monetisation model has become accepted and even celebrated by the player/customer base.

Let's not forget that these ships are already behind a paywall (Odyssey). People are then happy to downplay that because it's now often discounted, or that most people have it anyways. I paid 49 Euros for it originally so it was never a bargain for me. And now Frontier want me to pay again or else delay access by several months. I can't be happy about it, sorry.

We have had ships that were behind a DLC paywall from about eight years ago, the wall was removed when Base and Horizons were merged but lasted for years not months.

 

[aRJay]

Is the Cobra 5 overpowered?

Well I have only flown the stock version with no changes whatsoever and the handling felt fine and boosting it into a planet with no shields caused a satisfactory explosion rather than an invulnerable bounce, it is fast and accelerates well but as bought from a shipyard doesn’t seem overpowered.

So no.

 

[Alien]

So no actual response. How fitting.

I could waste my time typing out a really patronising reply, but I don't want to upset the moderators any more than I have done already. They've shown leniency over this, and it's probably best to leave this little spat in the territory of "agree to disagree".

 

[Mohrgan]

I spent about 500-600 Euros in total, across two accounts, over the years (up until 2021, when I got burned by Odyssey, and the broken 4.0 engine rendering most cosmetics incorrectly for a substantial time, and some even to this very day, Iridescent for example). I think I paid my fair share. But that's just me alright, others might only pay for the base game and that's it... but then that's what Frontier sell it for (or even hand it out for free aka Epic giveaway) so hardly the players' fault.

People often fall into the trap of thinking the company is dependent on their contributions to the game's income alone, without considering that there's tons of other potential players who will buy the base game and DLC each month.

As for the live service game aspect - I only see the downsides (server issues, lag, questionable monetisation decisions) and little in terms of upsides (regular, quality updates and that includes both new content and QoL/bugfixing work on an ongoing basis). So not sure it's the best argument imo.

See my post above, but I was one of those fools who paid premium (in good faith) for the DLC (preorder early access, which they incorrectly sold as a beta, which it wasn't), and what I got in return was a broken mess of a piece of software that took the company 18 updates (!) to fix to bring to where it should've been at release.

I also purchased the base game back in 2016 at full price (40 Euros iirc), and Horizons shortly after (another 40 Euros, which at that time was a cheeky price for a DLC). Plus countless ship kits, skins, FC items. There's no game I ever spent more money on, even including MSFS which doesn't come cheap (but you do get quality content). My second copy that I no longer play was discounted at the time and included Horizons (that was pre-Ody release).

I'm wondering if the defenders of FDev's latest monetisation model managed to get the game for next to nothing, which would explain their laissez faire attitude somewhat. I just feel being squeezed, given my payment history with the company. And yes, maybe my (former) whale-ness just isn't the target audience any longer.

I bought the game, initially, on Dec. 17th 2014. After I pre-ordered all of the expansions plus some Beta access along the way. I have tons of ship kits and paint-jobs for a variety of ships, from the Vulture to the iChief, that have become obsolete with the advent of the SCO ready ships. None of that has been wasted. I have enjoyed exactly 64w 10h 44m (That's more than a year actually in-game), I find it a fair trade.

I have spent hundreds on game controls, flightsticks, throttles ect. Way more than I have on the game itself, but do you think I wouldn't buy VKB stick because I already paid for a Thrustmaster stick? Na, if it's better and I can afford it, I do it. Same with the game. If I like something enough I'll buy it. I never bought an Anaconda though, I don't like large ships.

Why would you have to pay for a second movie ticket, if you've already paid to see it once? Should that one ticket be a lifetime pass? I'm sure you know the answer to that. Gaming is entertainment, not an investment.

 

[Mr Lindsay]

It is still pay-to-skip and pay-to-get-an-advantage (because the paid-for ships have a zero cost rebuy).

This is a completely fair point, and of course applies to all the Arx ships as I understand it including the older ship 'jumpstart' versions, so the new SCO ships aren't unique in this.

In theory I would say that we should ask FDev to change this to level the playing field, but the alternative is that new and returning players who bought an Arx ship can find themselves 'locked out' of their ship. If today you bought Elite Dangerous and the Python 'jumpstart', then went out and exploded, the rebuy cost would reset you to Sidewinder even if you'd managed to do the introductory mission and a few others.

If FDev could change that system so that it took the full rebuy cost but still allowed them to spawn the purchased ship instead of the Sidewinder, then when they got the hang of the game and became a billionaire they would be paying the same rebuy as everyone else, I think that would be the best of both worlds.

 

[foxwalker]

Yep, baffling indeed. You don't see things the way I see them. Maybe you will one day, maybe you won't.

No, it is a paywall, and Frontier's version of that is "Arx". A patience wall would mean not having to do anything other than wait, and while yes a version of the Cobra mkV will be available for in-game credits if people just wait, it still won't be the same (or arguably as good) as the version you could get for real money. It is still pay-to-skip and pay-to-get-an-advantage (because the paid-for ships have a zero cost rebuy). It is a sad state of affairs that a) too many of you don't see this and b) too many of you forget too quickly as evidenced by replies to my comments, which I admit could have been worded better but still convey a point.

Talking of which ....



Some people ^^^^ miss that point.

Alien, I don't see it your way either. I do not understand your idea that it is a paywall.
To me, a paywall would mean that the content was never available unless you paid for it. If the content becomes available in time or you can buy it with your accumulated ingame ARX, then there is no paywall.

Everything in the game requires some kind of payment. In game money, in game accumulated ARX, advancing to a rank to get a ship or accumulation of components to get upgrades. Many that play have less time and some are willing to pay for a faster access.

The idea that you can get something a little sooner if you pay actual dollars does not represent a paywall to me.

I have no idea how much time you have in this game. I have more than 4000 hours of play time. The idea that I paid 40 or 60 dollars for a game that I have gotten that much play time out of for that little amount of money is amazing. Anyone that is a longtime player should be happy to spend a few extra dollars considering how much we have enjoyed this game over so many years.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[UberDuper]

I disagree.

 

[CMDR X]

No, be quiet. It's fine as it is.

 

[Rat Catcher]

This is a completely fair point, and of course applies to all the Arx ships as I understand it including the older ship 'jumpstart' versions, so the new SCO ships aren't unique in this.

I also have a zero rebuy Courier & Vulture (thanks to Winking Cat etc.), as well as my starter Sidey...

Not all zero rebuy ships cost Arx, or are new in game.

 

[Marcus Bronco]

The Cobra series should be good, it should make sense in-game why the line is so iconic and popular. The maneuverability may be a little too good, but this must be part of the accessibility drive the devs are aiming for. The Mandalay is a bit OP in this regard as well, but it's nice to fly a really fun ship sometimes.

Having said that, I prefer the look and sound of Vipers so I'm sticking with my Viper 4. As far as other ships go, other CMDRs including myself love the Type-7 and still use it, despite using Type-8s as well.

Doesn't matter too much if every ship after the Python 2 and Type-8 are perfect ships. The new players have some obvious go-to ships, which is good, and the old line will be kept alive by us.

Glad to find out there are other players who make decisions by the look of stuff, not by the function and power greed and power fantasy it can give.
I actually limit stuff I want from the design of it first... I picked 1 maybe 2 because of the things it allow to do... but will not really use them. I don't want too muchstuff in my hangars at all.

Looking forward for Viper MK V.

 

[Mr Lindsay]

I also have a zero rebuy Courier & Vulture (thanks to Winking Cat etc.), as well as my starter Sidey...

Not all zero rebuy ships cost Arx, or are new in game.

Good point also, I'd forgotten about them. I 'sold' any free ships I had a long time ago as I tend not to clutter up my fleet with ships I never use. Same with many of the free modules we've had over the years.

 

[Simon Templar]

Yes, I think it's slightly boringly too good. But I don't have to fly it and if it makes newer players like and stick with the game more then I'm happy. I might use one as an exo ship as the view out is so good, but will avoid it beyond that. So yes I agree with OP but no I don't think it's an issue.

 

[Simon Templar]

Come on, let's not pretend it isn't essentially superior to all other small class ships in every way. Take the Imperial Courier, for example; the Cobra has more firepower, better speed, better armor, better shields, better cargo capacity, better jump range, AND it's SCO-optimized. And it's cheaper, on top of all that. There's zero reason to ever bother using a Courier when the Cobra Mk5 exists.

Broadly speaking, when it comes to things like this, performance increases linearly but cost increases exponentially. In this case, you're looking at a ship that's something like 25-50% better in every regard - it should rightfully cost 10x-50x more.

Otherwise all the other small ships in the game could as well be outright deleted from the game entirely.

I'm not asking for it to cost a billion credits - just enough that players at least should use something else for a bit. And with current profit margins, that's somewhere in the hundred million credit range.

Agree with that. And it being pricier than the MkIII doesn't mean anything in this economy, anyway - there are easy fortunes to be made everywhere, certainly at a level to make this ship cheap. I often fly a ship with a 50k rebuy and it is essentially free, has taken away any sense of peril!