Is Cobra mk5 op?

[Alien]

How dare a private company try to make money! They should be ashamed of themselves! They should become a charity that does everything for free!

Seriously, you are complaining about a COMPLETE non-issue. If you don't want to buy the early-access ships, just wait a few months. You'll get them at no extra cost. This kind of attitude is just baffling and completely ridiculous.

Yep, baffling indeed. You don't see things the way I see them. Maybe you will one day, maybe you won't.

...and stop offering new ships. Sorry, I'm buying. I want additional development.

Besides, they haven't locked any ships behind an ARX wall. They've dangled them behind a patience wall that can be bypassed by ARX The only thing they're selling is instant gratification, the most common drug of choice.

No, it is a paywall, and Frontier's version of that is "Arx". A patience wall would mean not having to do anything other than wait, and while yes a version of the Cobra mkV will be available for in-game credits if people just wait, it still won't be the same (or arguably as good) as the version you could get for real money. It is still pay-to-skip and pay-to-get-an-advantage (because the paid-for ships have a zero cost rebuy). It is a sad state of affairs that a) too many of you don't see this and b) too many of you forget too quickly as evidenced by replies to my comments, which I admit could have been worded better but still convey a point.

Talking of which ....

Yeah, so? If you don't want to spend money on the game then don't. Nobody is forcing you to. Why are you mocking those who do spend money on the games they play? Do you think they are somehow idiotic or something?

Excluded middle fallacy.

Strawman fallacy.

Slippery slope fallacy.

False authority fallacy.

These are all YOU problems.

Some people ^^^^ miss that point.

 

[DjVortex]

Yep, baffling indeed. You don't see things the way I see them. Maybe you will one day, maybe you won't.

You know where you can shove your patronizing attitude.

 

[Cmdr Esteban]

Gentlemen, please.

 

[Alien]

You know where you can shove your patronizing attitude.

I forgive you for that, it is Christmas after all.
But most of all, you were being honest, and I respect honesty.

 

[Knuttin Atoll]

How dare a private company try to make money! They should be ashamed of themselves! They should become a charity that does everything for free!

Seriously, you are complaining about a COMPLETE non-issue. If you don't want to buy the early-access ships, just wait a few months. You'll get them at no extra cost. This kind of attitude is just baffling and completely ridiculous.

What I find baffling is how quickly the new monetisation model has become accepted and even celebrated by the player/customer base.

Let's not forget that these ships are already behind a paywall (Odyssey). People are then happy to downplay that because it's now often discounted, or that most people have it anyways. I paid 49 Euros for it originally so it was never a bargain for me. And now Frontier want me to pay again or else delay access by several months. I can't be happy about it, sorry.

 

[Koma Pahu]

What I find baffling is how quickly the new monetisation model has become accepted and even celebrated by the player/customer base.

Let's not forget that these ships are already behind a paywall (Odyssey). People are then happy to downplay that because it's now often discounted, or that most people have it anyways. I paid 49 Euros for it originally so it was never a bargain for me. And now Frontier want me to pay again or else delay access by several months. I can't be happy about it, sorry.

It’s a live service game, bills have to be paid. The £100 I bunged them for Odyssey doesn’t even pay a Dev’s day rate.

This an optional funding model that is far less predatory than most of the industry and even my expenses across 2 accounts is lower than I used to pay in subscription to WoW over a year. - I budget it.

If you’ve paid for the latest expansion, you get access to the ships after a few months anyway.

In all likelihood Odyssey will be merged with the base game the same as Horizons was, before the next expansion, so if you’re really tight you can get it all for free with an Epic account.

They’re clearly monsters.

 

[Jinx Chrome]

the 4 SCO ships were never a promise of the original game, not even a promise of Odyssey.

Again, I encourage players to spend some money on ARX which helps FDev to pay they bills. Compared to what we pay for our game PCs and other software, the costs of the preview or new livery is next to nothing. And no one needs to buy them.
Also, I still haven't met a player who could 'win the game' by 'getting an unfair advantage' through one of the prebuilt ships. Piloting skill and experience are far more important.
And even if somebody 'wins' (I'd like to hear how this is defined in ED) - so what? Will I have a personal disadvantage?

Therefore: Dear FDev, make a couple of more lovely new SCO enabled ships for 2025 and give us a preview using ARX. Makes some players happy and you guys can pay your bills!

 

[Mohrgan]

What I find baffling is how quickly the new monetisation model has become accepted and even celebrated by the player/customer base.

Let's not forget that these ships are already behind a paywall (Odyssey). People are then happy to downplay that because it's now often discounted, or that most people have it anyways. I paid 49 Euros for it originally so it was never a bargain for me. And now Frontier want me to pay again or else delay access by several months. I can't be happy about it, sorry.

All games have up-dates, most are payed for with cash. Is every new version of a game just a new paywall? I believe FDev, over the 10 years I've been playing, have been fair when they offer free up-dates, and when they ask for a fee. Early access, what we're paying for, is a vanity item. Those ships will be available to all current Commanders on their official release date.

How long ago did you pay full price for Ody? Did the Ody purchase include all DLC upon purchase, for ever?

Finally, once you load up your existing modules, and get out there, how often do you see a re-buy? I really decide when I loose a ship, so free-rebuys aren't so free, and hardly useful to a PvE guy.

 

[Knuttin Atoll]

It’s a live service game, bills have to be paid. The £100 I bunged them for Odyssey doesn’t even pay a Dev’s day rate.

This an optional funding model that is far less predatory than most of the industry and even my expenses across 2 accounts is lower than I used to pay in subscription to WoW.

If you’ve paid for the latest expansion, you get access to the ships after a few months anyway.

In all likelihood Odyssey will be merged with the base game the same as Horizons was, before the next expansion, so if you’re really tight you can get it all for free with an Epic account.

They’re clearly monsters.

I spent about 500-600 Euros in total, across two accounts, over the years (up until 2021, when I got burned by Odyssey, and the broken 4.0 engine rendering most cosmetics incorrectly for a substantial time, and some even to this very day, Iridescent for example). I think I paid my fair share. But that's just me alright, others might only pay for the base game and that's it... but then that's what Frontier sell it for (or even hand it out for free aka Epic giveaway) so hardly the players' fault.

People often fall into the trap of thinking the company is dependent on their contributions to the game's income alone, without considering that there's tons of other potential players who will buy the base game and DLC each month.

As for the live service game aspect - I only see the downsides (server issues, lag, questionable monetisation decisions) and little in terms of upsides (regular, quality updates and that includes both new content and QoL/bugfixing work on an ongoing basis). So not sure it's the best argument imo.

 

[Markov Chaney]

It's optional. OPTIONAL. That means nobody has to be happy about it except the people that are happy about it. You can just go "huh, well I wouldn't pay that, I can't believe all these other fools are doing that!" and you can go about your business taking advantage of all that investment without having to pay a penny.

Since it's all upside that way, "what I find baffling" is that anyone could complain about that at all.

 

[Knuttin Atoll]

How long ago did you pay full price for Ody? Did the Ody purchase include all DLC upon purchase, for ever?

See my post above, but I was one of those fools who paid premium (in good faith) for the DLC (preorder early access, which they incorrectly sold as a beta, which it wasn't), and what I got in return was a broken mess of a piece of software that took the company 18 updates (!) to fix to bring to where it should've been at release.

I also purchased the base game back in 2016 at full price (40 Euros iirc), and Horizons shortly after (another 40 Euros, which at that time was a cheeky price for a DLC). Plus countless ship kits, skins, FC items. There's no game I ever spent more money on, even including MSFS which doesn't come cheap (but you do get quality content). My second copy that I no longer play was discounted at the time and included Horizons (that was pre-Ody release).

I'm wondering if the defenders of FDev's latest monetisation model managed to get the game for next to nothing, which would explain their laissez faire attitude somewhat. I just feel being squeezed, given my payment history with the company. And yes, maybe my (former) whale-ness just isn't the target audience any longer.

 

[the100thmonkey]

Some people ^^^^ miss that point.

So no actual response. How fitting.

 

[Knuttin Atoll]

It's optional. OPTIONAL. That means nobody has to be happy about it except the people that are happy about it. You can just go "huh, well I wouldn't pay that, I can't believe all these other fools are doing that!" and you can go about your business taking advantage of all that investment without having to pay a penny.

Since it's all upside that way, "what I find baffling" is that anyone could complain about that at all.

Currently it is still, yes. And if you're patient, you can wait it out.

Frontier have tested the waters (it started with the introduction of Arx a few years ago), and the results/feedback must be encouraging. I'd be surprised if they don't push further into that direction going forward. But hey, if people enjoy riding on the slippery slope, I will just have to let them get on with it.

 

[Rat Catcher]

What I find baffling is how quickly the new monetisation model has become accepted and even celebrated by the player/customer base.

I like new ships, I don't mind paying less than the price of a pizza to "WIN!" by flying a new ship a few months before being able to by it for credits

Let's not forget that these ships are already behind a paywall (Odyssey)

Hard life, isn't it? Horizons had new ships behind its paywall too...

I got burned by Odyssey, and the broken 4.0 engine rendering most cosmetics incorrectly for a substantial time, and some even to this very day, Iridescent for example).

My Iridescent Scorch Phantom PJ is certainly not rendering incorrectly, hasn't been for at least a year or so... Maybe I'm lucky, or just only play Odyssey since launch (as well as early access), so have seen when things change?

As for the live service game aspect - I only see the downsides (server issues, lag, questionable monetisation decisions) and little in terms of upsides (regular, quality updates and that includes both new content and QoL/bugfixing work on an ongoing basis). So not sure it's the best argument imo.

Perhaps FD should charge a subscription to pay for their server costs, and further development, rather than sell 4 ships (to date) for a tenner each...

 

[Knuttin Atoll]

My Iridescent Scorch Phantom PJ is certainly not rendering incorrectly, hasn't been for at least a year or so... Maybe I'm lucky, or just only play Odyssey since launch (as well as early access), so have seen when things change?

Iridescent paints had a metallic finish in 3.8. They're all matte/semi-gloss in 4.0. I guess your latter assumption applies here.

Perhaps FD should charge a subscription to pay for their server costs, and further development, rather than sell 4 ships (to date) for a tenner each...

I'd love to see it, if only out of curiosity about whether Frontier would be able to walk the walk - because expectations will most certainly increase of what a sub-funded game should deliver on a regular basis - single example being the ongoing server wobbles and intermittent freezes that I doubt people would accept if they'd have to pay a monthly fee.

 

[nanothargon]

I'm wondering if the defenders of FDev's latest monetisation model managed to get the game for next to nothing, which would explain their laissez faire attitude somewhat. I just feel being squeezed, given my payment history with the company. And yes, maybe my (former) whale-ness just isn't the target audience any longer.

I was an original kickstarter backer, backing for much more than the full-price cost of the released games. I strongly support the new Arx strategy and (personally) a subscription would also be fine by me. I trust Frontier, and I want the game to continue. I understand that this means I will need to keep funding the game.

I would rather pay for the game than have it be “free” i.e. funded by ads or unsustainable. This (Arx) is a great way to achieve that.

 

[Rat Catcher]

Iridescent paints had a metallic finish in 3.8. They're all matte/semi-gloss in 4.0. I guess your latter assumption applies here.

I agree, the finish differs between versions - I was considering that for a while after EDO launch the finish was totally broken (block colours, no changes)

But, at least they are better now, and look very good. The lighting in EDO was changed from that in Legacy, for better or worse...

I'd love to see it, if only out of curiosity about whether Frontier would be able to walk the walk - because expectations will most certainly increase of what a sub-funded game should deliver on a regular basis - single example being the ongoing server wobbles and intermittent freezes that I doubt people would accept if they'd have to pay a monthly fee.

Subs would kil the game... Look how much resistance there is to spending a tenner for each of 4 ships there has been, actually paying to play would bring tears to many, judging by the reaction from some forum members over the years to such an outrageous idea. (and I'm one of the ones who would not pay to play, did that with WoW foor 2 years, never again)

For free, the servers are about as good as it gets, maybe?

 

[aRJay]

The true test is when you ask a friend to play ED for the first time and let him go about getting his first million credits. Old timers restarting again is a very deceptive benchmark since all that accumulated knowledge of how to do things and get money quick are still there. Unless of course you have amnesia

(and no cheating please, don't spoon feed him those YouTube tutorials)

Unless you like winding them up, in which case you feed them the outdated/wrong tutorials.

 

[aRJay]

What I find baffling is how quickly the new monetisation model has become accepted and even celebrated by the player/customer base.

Let's not forget that these ships are already behind a paywall (Odyssey). People are then happy to downplay that because it's now often discounted, or that most people have it anyways. I paid 49 Euros for it originally so it was never a bargain for me. And now Frontier want me to pay again or else delay access by several months. I can't be happy about it, sorry.

We have had ships that were behind a DLC paywall from about eight years ago, the wall was removed when Base and Horizons were merged but lasted for years not months.

 

[aRJay]

Is the Cobra 5 overpowered?

Well I have only flown the stock version with no changes whatsoever and the handling felt fine and boosting it into a planet with no shields caused a satisfactory explosion rather than an invulnerable bounce, it is fast and accelerates well but as bought from a shipyard doesn’t seem overpowered.

So no.