Hire NPC pilots to collect colonization materials

I've seen quite a few people mention how nice it would be if we could hire traders or use our own npc crew to passively gather and deliver materials to colonization ships, so I made this thread in case it hasn't been mentioned here yet.

I believe such a feature would be not only a great QOL feature, but also a way to increase game immersion and allow those who like the idea of colonisation but are put off by the grind to interact with the systems. At the very least it could be a new starport menu or an option to hail nearby cargo ships, or if you want ideas for a new big DLC with many features it could be expanded into an NPC overhaul where you could hire wingmates or have added crew functionality, etc.

Please, FDev, this would be amazing. I would legitimately spend way more time in the game as I love base building mechanics but really want to be able to do activities other than cargo hauling. I'm sure most of us would be happy to pay extra and even wait longer than usual for deliveries could we do so passively.
 
I've seen quite a few people mention how nice it would be if we could hire traders or use our own npc crew to passively gather and deliver materials to colonization ships, so I made this thread in case it hasn't been mentioned here yet.

I believe such a feature would be not only a great QOL feature, but also a way to increase game immersion and allow those who like the idea of colonisation but are put off by the grind to interact with the systems. At the very least it could be a new starport menu or an option to hail nearby cargo ships, or if you want ideas for a new big DLC with many features it could be expanded into an NPC overhaul where you could hire wingmates or have added crew functionality, etc.

Please, FDev, this would be amazing. I would legitimately spend way more time in the game as I love base building mechanics but really want to be able to do activities other than cargo hauling. I'm sure most of us would be happy to pay extra and even wait longer than usual for deliveries could we do so passively.

My idea that I'd hope the Developers would seriously consider, would be to put stations (all builds) on timers. A timer equal to the tons of mats required would be fine, but It would look like NPCs are auto delivering stuff. However, in reality, it's just a timer that players can chip away 1 minute per ton of the mats that are already in demand by being proactive in the build. Also, cool little mini vids of each facility being quick built upon completion would up the wow factor of the game.

With these ideas in mind, it would solve many problems with both solo players and people who want to play the game without it being an endless grind.

From another post. *

There's got to be some automation somewhere, otherwise only well-connected players will have absolute monopolies on the industry while solo players pick for scraps out in the outer fringes before losing interest in the entire game. Without direct access to the bubble, especially this early on, no solo player will be able to build more than a few outposts.

It is a viscous cycle, but with the proper balancing (particularly for solo players) it should work best with either timers or NPC deliveries. To keep people from going overboard, maybe after the third or fourth facility in a system it requires a player to become self-sufficient. Or have the timer limited to one build at a time while all others are on hold or could be built by the player. As it stands, a newer solo player (mildly new) that hasn't gotten a carrier has little to no chance to even get their first outpost built beyond the fringes of the bubble. Once things expand even more, even carrier owners will begin to feel the pressure.

Like another example would be Inara, we all use it these days. If occupied systems expand over the next 3-6 months and players spread out in all directions, what kind of information will those solo players be seeing when they need resources. Carriers at that point would be an absolute must before anyone could even begin to think about expanding further while the well-connected players takeover most all of the universe of the new bubble.

I get that solo players will always be at a disadvantage, especially for large stations, but they still need to feel like they CAN remain solo and build their own little slice of paradise somewhere out in the black without the need to grind their entire lives away just to get there.
 
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I'd like some alternatives to cargo hauling, certainly. A few of the ideas from other threads
- trade in Building Schematics to reduce requirements
- "defend convoy" POIs can have them offer to do a single hauling run for you if you keep them all alive under pirate attack
- mission commodity rewards can be applied to a construction rather than your cargo hold
- scanning other bases of the same type outside your systems (only works for the Hub and Installation builds) takes a little bit off the requirements


Hiring NPC pilots to do the delivery is trickier, though - what's a fair rate to pay them?

It's not difficult to earn 200M/hour from stacking up "mining" gold/silver/palladium missions at Industrial stations and then buying the cargo. Four missions an hour (which don't take fifteen minutes each to do, and a T-9 or Cutter might be able to do two in a single trip) gets you there.

So if you can earn 200M/hour, and that's substituting for an hour's hauling (and not having to find good local sources of cargo), that's a payout of well over a billion credits just to build a basic T1 outpost.

I think a lot of people would find that excessive on paper - colonisation itself costing a fairly accessible 25 million and then the "fast track construction" button costing considerably more than a Fleet Carrier for the larger stations.

The problem is that if it's significantly cheaper than that - say it just costs a still pretty sizable 400 million to fast-track an outpost - then the meta rapidly becomes
- don't haul anything yourself
- do mission stacking or exobio or one of the super-fast credit earners
- use the money to pay for NPC hauling
- complete the station much quicker than you'd otherwise have been able to
- maybe also get some faction rep / pilots rank / Powerplay merits / engineering materials / etc. from the money-making process
and at that point the stations might as well just have credit price tags on them, because any other approach (including most of the ways you could earn the credits!) is the long way round. They're just not a useful way to balance anything in Elite Dangerous.
 
The problem with alternatives is they would not be balanced (nothing in the game is). If the alternatives don't become the meta they are wasted dev time. But if the meta isn't hauling then you end up with more casual players being at a disadvantage compared to forum sweats because they don't know.

NPCs doing the work is even worse as people could just buy extra accounts and get more done (by their NPCs). P2W.
 
Are we really hauling in enough mass for a Coriolis* for example, if not then the NOCs are already making up for us slackers.

Isn’t a Coriolis somewhere up in the gigatonnes range.
 
Just have a button that you click for an instant Coriolis Station. Also for Elite ranking too why not.
I know you're just being sarcastic, but that's not quite what I'm arguing for. I know my idea as-is is not balanced or too well thought out, I'm simply trying to pose the idea that we have some other sort of method to progress colonization. I do not want this to be a "fast-track" where it takes less time or is instant, I just want to be able to slowly progress the building passively at some cost to the player. I built my first coriolis station fully legit, and I am an Elite, but sometimes life just gets in the way. I want to play the game but don't want every hour spent to be just more and more cargo hauling.
 
I just don't get this whole "Pay to not play the game" mentality...

Other options to do activities that contribute to making the station, sure. But not just pay credits to literally remove the activity.
That's a fair point too, I would also love other activities that contribute as well. I think I may have mentioned somewhere in another thread that it would be neat to be able to defend cargo haulers from pirates as a sort of combat loop too.

I'm not saying this idea is perfect by any means whatsoever lol. I just think this method could work well with implementing a combat cycle (hire then defend your hauler), so I wanted to post it.

As for the "pay not to play the game" bit, I see your point but still disagree. I think that doesnt apply here as it's less "pay not to play" and more "pay to play the mechanics you like if you don't have that much time to play the game". Just a personal opinion though, I get that people will disagree and that's fine
 
I'd like some alternatives to cargo hauling, certainly. A few of the ideas from other threads
- trade in Building Schematics to reduce requirements
- "defend convoy" POIs can have them offer to do a single hauling run for you if you keep them all alive under pirate attack
- mission commodity rewards can be applied to a construction rather than your cargo hold
- scanning other bases of the same type outside your systems (only works for the Hub and Installation builds) takes a little bit off the requirements


Hiring NPC pilots to do the delivery is trickier, though - what's a fair rate to pay them?

It's not difficult to earn 200M/hour from stacking up "mining" gold/silver/palladium missions at Industrial stations and then buying the cargo. Four missions an hour (which don't take fifteen minutes each to do, and a T-9 or Cutter might be able to do two in a single trip) gets you there.

So if you can earn 200M/hour, and that's substituting for an hour's hauling (and not having to find good local sources of cargo), that's a payout of well over a billion credits just to build a basic T1 outpost.

I think a lot of people would find that excessive on paper - colonisation itself costing a fairly accessible 25 million and then the "fast track construction" button costing considerably more than a Fleet Carrier for the larger stations.

The problem is that if it's significantly cheaper than that - say it just costs a still pretty sizable 400 million to fast-track an outpost - then the meta rapidly becomes
- don't haul anything yourself
- do mission stacking or exobio or one of the super-fast credit earners
- use the money to pay for NPC hauling
- complete the station much quicker than you'd otherwise have been able to
- maybe also get some faction rep / pilots rank / Powerplay merits / engineering materials / etc. from the money-making process
and at that point the stations might as well just have credit price tags on them, because any other approach (including most of the ways you could earn the credits!) is the long way round. They're just not a useful way to balance anything in Elite Dangerous.
You make good points here that I hadn't thought of. I appreciate the well-thought-out criticisms and alternative ideas instead of just saying "stupid idea" or whatever. I think my ideal implementation of this would be a slow system that doesn't let you spam hiring npcs and still takes significantly longer than just hiring yourself, so it would be much faster otherwise and is just a passive option for those who want it. However, I do totally agree that we need new activities for it too (I actually really like all your ideas).

I guess the reason I went with this idea is because for all the great immersive aspects of Elite, I've always wished we could have more interactions with non-hostile npcs. I feel like adding a system where I could hire and optionally escort an npc trader would be not just a time saver, but also a way to be more immersed in the gameplay. Am I crazy to want that? Maybe, Idk. But it's something I want nonetheless.
 
I don't think the requirements are the absolute materials needed, I think it's the requirement of the pilot's federation. Everything else is handled by NPCs.
While I looooathe the idea of contracts to have NPCs haul, I could see a system where we buy the required goods, setup a payment per ton and post it for other players to haul. Setup a huge Pilot's Federation job board with the routes. The player can look at the board, see the route and choose how many tons they'll deliver. This could be a cool option for new players to have quick possibly very lucrative hauling jobs.
 
I don't think the requirements are the absolute materials needed, I think it's the requirement of the pilot's federation. Everything else is handled by NPCs.
While I looooathe the idea of contracts to have NPCs haul, I could see a system where we buy the required goods, setup a payment per ton and post it for other players to haul. Setup a huge Pilot's Federation job board with the routes. The player can look at the board, see the route and choose how many tons they'll deliver. This could be a cool option for new players to have quick possibly very lucrative hauling jobs.
Actually, that would work too. An in-game bulletin board / mission board for player contracts is a fun idea too. Not a bad idea at all.
 
I know you're just being sarcastic, but that's not quite what I'm arguing for. I know my idea as-is is not balanced or too well thought out, I'm simply trying to pose the idea that we have some other sort of method to progress colonization. I do not want this to be a "fast-track" where it takes less time or is instant, I just want to be able to slowly progress the building passively at some cost to the player. I built my first coriolis station fully legit, and I am an Elite, but sometimes life just gets in the way. I want to play the game but don't want every hour spent to be just more and more cargo hauling.
The problem is even if the system takes exactly the same time as it took the commander to do a particular structure type and wasn't available for any structure they hadn't already completed an example of it would still let them set the process going and go shooting NPCs for a week while it happened. It wasn't instant but it had just as much effect on their game as if it was.

I suspect when I get to start colonising I am going to want some sort of alternative to ease the strain or add variety but I don't think this is quite it.
 
I do not want this to be a "fast-track" where it takes less time or is instant, I just want to be able to slowly progress the building passively at some cost to the player.
Except that's what paying NPCs is doing... it's fast tracking things, or at the very least, making the problem disappear one way or smudge by paying credits

First, credits are straight-up busted as a game resource. Secondly, it would severely undermine the update itself... imagine going "hey, here's our new feature, but if you like just do whatever you were already doing and post to skip it".

Imagine this was the Thargoid War.... and instead of fighting it, 10,000 players just decide to stack NPC pirate massacres and then pay NPCs to fight the war instead of us.

Instead, the war offered varied activities, but you still had to do those activities.
 
You make good points here that I hadn't thought of. I appreciate the well-thought-out criticisms and alternative ideas instead of just saying "stupid idea" or whatever. I think my ideal implementation of this would be a slow system that doesn't let you spam hiring npcs and still takes significantly longer than just hiring yourself, so it would be much faster otherwise and is just a passive option for those who want it. However, I do totally agree that we need new activities for it too (I actually really like all your ideas).

I guess the reason I went with this idea is because for all the great immersive aspects of Elite, I've always wished we could have more interactions with non-hostile npcs. I feel like adding a system where I could hire and optionally escort an npc trader would be not just a time saver, but also a way to be more immersed in the gameplay. Am I crazy to want that? Maybe, Idk. But it's something I want nonetheless.
You have some good points, but wouldn't escort missions be just as time consuming as moving the goods yourself? Though it would somewhat solve the sourcing problem. 🤔 Hmm.. hard to say. However, a timer count for one build at a time would offer a sure way for even mid rank solo players to get things done in a timely fashion, but add in some of your ideas that could knock time off the clock beyond that isn't a bad idea either. (Sigh) 😤

I can't seem to get over the idea that there should be some sort of countdown timer that helps solo players progress fast enough to stay relevant and interested in the game. If the game only caters to the well connected, then it could have a bad effect on new and solo players.
 
You have some good points, but wouldn't escort missions be just as time consuming as moving the goods yourself? Though it would somewhat solve the sourcing problem. 🤔 Hmm.. hard to say. However, a timer count for one build at a time would offer a sure way for even mid rank solo players to get things done in a timely fashion, but add in some of your ideas that could knock time off the clock beyond that isn't a bad idea either. (Sigh) 😤
Thing is... alternate activities should be just as time-consuming... that's what balance looks and feels like in a game. That doesn't result in everything "being the same"... rather it lets you tailor play to your preferred playstyle, where that playstyle is an option.

For example... FD might baseline "It should take 10 hours of effort to build an outpost"... whether that's 10 hours of hauling, 10 hours of escorting NPCs or 10 hours of... i dunno... mining?

But your proficiency and expertise applied to that then looks like 20 hours of hauling (because you suck at sourcing rarer goods), 8 hours of escorting (because you're a jet combat pilot) or 12 hours of mining (because you just enjoy a casual mine without minmaxing stuff). So yeah, alternates shouldn't be less time consuming than hauling the goods yourself, unless you're not good at hauling goods.

The suggestion might then be "Well ok, what's wrong with paying NPCs and it takes 10 hours?".... the issue there is the completely botched economy. It's safe to say whatever might be a "reasonable" cost could be earned in about 1 hour of Massacre Stacking[1], or 100 hours of ordinary mission running.

The issue then becomes the realtime factor. Not many people can do a 10 hour session on a game in one day... so that might look like four days straight of 2-3 hours of play each day, or 2-3 hours once a week across four weeks. The choice is on the player there. FD probably have a "baseline" standard for a player where they've decided the time taken for a solo player to do the different types of main orbital are Outpost: Day(s), Coriolis: Week(s), Orbis: Month(s), thus we get the 1 month timer for the initial port; doable, but not easy for a solo player.

But given the choice of that, versus "Do one hour of massacre stacking and NPCs make it arrive 10 hours later"... that's way less playtime (which, as a business, is FD's goal[2]). It would be a no-brainer to do that rather than actually do the hauling or whatever.

It's absolutely against FD's (or any game dev's) interests to implement content[2] in a new update only to have a way to go "Play the old content instead and just pay currency to skip it[3]"

[1] insert your favourite unbalanced meta here.
[2] I'm not going to go in to bat for how FD achieve that, only know that it's an obvious goal of any game company; to have players playing their game more, rather than less.
[3] Unless you're whale-hunting... I think higher of FD than that though.

I can't seem to get over the idea that there should be some sort of countdown timer that helps solo players progress fast enough to stay relevant and interested in the game. If the game only caters to the well connected, then it could have a bad effect on new and solo players.

I think FD have been pretty clear that this was always a group activity that would be hard, but doable, as an individual. People like to work towards those big goals... that's why I reference the Thargoid War. I don't think anyone complained about "not being able to solo a Thargoid-occupied system" and needing to be able to pay NPCs so it could be done solo... I don't see any difference with this either. It's impossible to have an activity which, when identical in process, is easier for individuals than it is for a group. Such outcomes result in groups operating as individuals and coordinating externally to simply do things faster.

Honestly, part of me wonders if FD shouldn't double-down and increase the costs of coriolis and orbis by an order of magnitude or two, to emphasise that those are really intended as group efforts?

There's several mechanisms that can be used as an individual to encourage others to help too.... when my group (who is now, mostly, disbanded) decided to support a particular faction, we geared it up in a way that meant it would net a lot of passive assistance from random passer-by's. When I played solo in EVE, I didn't try and compete with the big groups, I worked out how to work my way into their logistic loops with services that reaped profits which could be used to incentivise others to aid my activites without ever being part of a formal group.
 
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