Requirements for building a Coriolis starport

[Jaffz]

Indeed. There seems to be a sense of entitlement amongst modern gamers, “I paid for the game so I should enjoy every aspect of it.”

I'm 50, pal. I'm not a 'modern gamer'. I'm sick of people going on about if you mention the mindless grind that comes with colonization this automatically means you want 'instant gratification

The mental gymnastics in this thread to justify the grind are quite something. People recommending that you watch Netflix while grinding to alleviate the boredom says everything you need to know about the 'gameplay' imvolved

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

Indeed. There seems to be a sense of entitlement amongst modern gamers, “I paid for the game so I should enjoy every aspect of it.”

Also there is an urge of completionism established over the years, fueled by the rise of 100% achievements and corresponding guides. Some gamers feel the need to complete every aspect and loop of a game, if only for completion's sake. The idea of skipping content they don't like is unthinkable for some gamers. Pair that with a purely reward driven mindset rather than an experience driven, and you get grind and the resulting complaints about it.

 

[Jmanis]

I'm 50, pal. I'm not a 'modern gamer'.

So... what if I said I was 40? What if I said I was 60? What if I said I was 16? What age bracket is the special one that gets everything it wants, while the others get ignored. None.

The things i enjoy today are different to the things i enjoyed when i was younger, and the reverse was also true for things i didn't like. And that's fine... people have different likes and dislikes, different time to spend doing things.

A particular game design will never be universally enjoyed, or even accessible... there's heaps of adult amusement rides i can't go on these days because I'm too tall. They always have a target audience... sometimes it's you, sometimes it's me, sometimes it's neither of us.

This was always pitched by FD as a group activity, and hard for a solo player. That's no basis to make it not this.

People recommending that you watch Netflix while grinding to alleviate the boredom says everything you need to know about the 'gameplay' imvolved

Please tell me... what does it say? What in particular makes you feel like that's an invalid position to have?

I'd love to know what's wrong with, once kids are in bed, sitting down for a wine with my wife while she plays games on her ipad, me on my laptop enjoying the hsulimh, and both watching the latest episodes of Day of the Jackal. I certainly couldn't play COD or Fortnite in that circumstance.

Or are we just degrading this to ad-hominem now?

 

[_Flin_]

Indeed. There seems to be a sense of entitlement amongst modern gamers, “I paid for the game so I should enjoy every aspect of it.”

More like "it should only include what i like. And all other aspects should be forbidden. And furthermore everything i like needs to be nice and easy, and anything someone else likes - if it really has to be in the game - should be grueling, hard, tiresome and 'realistic', because i call that 'immersion'. Unless i like the rewards this offers, then i want the same rewards. And easy please."

 

[KrixtinaViperX]

Perhaps it is worth waiting until 28 days have passed since the claim window closed, and see how many systems drop off?

Perhaps, but numbers are given out by fdev rarely and certainly not on any schedule, so we have to make do with the numbers we did just get.

(I also wonder just how many of those chose an Ocellus, without actually looking at the requirements relative to their own playtime, or whatever)

Guiltily looks around at the unfinished asteroid base I chose because I had no idea what the numbers actually meant in terms of haulage...

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

I'm 50, pal. I'm not a 'modern gamer'. I'm sick of people going on about if you mention the mindless grind that comes with colonization this automatically means you want 'instant gratification

The mental gymnastics in this thread to justify the grind are quite something. People recommending that you watch Netflix while grinding to alleviate the boredom says everything you need to know about the 'gameplay' imvolved

Ditto. Turned 48 today actually and he needs to chill on that. It's not about being "entitled modern gamer" ugh.

 

[Rat Catcher]

Guiltily looks around at the unfinished asteroid base I chose because I had no idea what the numbers actually meant in terms of haulage...

I looked at all of the options before deciding to build anything, ending up with a 4 noob hammer Coriolis (because 4...) which I considered I could do, comfortably, given the 28 day window. I was fortunate that 3 others in the squadron joined in on the weekend and helped get it finished, which was great, I'd already hauled nearly 60%, which was an unexpected result of being 'tied' to home while my car was having some (slow) work done.

But, it is true, building any of the assets is going to be a lot of hauling, and a bit of searching around for supplies, so the decision has to be made over if it is possible, given playtime, and if it is going to be enjoyable (I found my FC wasn't much of an asset apart from picking up some bulk commodities from a system 5 Cutter jumps away) to complete.

Yes, it is something entirely different from other content introduced into the game, but it is all hauling, and, if hauling is considered grind, why bother doing it? All that would do is sour the experience of playing, after all.

 

[AngryAntz]

Can't wait for when they open it up in Colonia (once they have time to fix the issues), I love sourcing materials and hauling.

And no I am not being sarcastic for once.

 

[Greasetrap42]

Also there is an urge of completionism established over the years, fueled by the rise of 100% achievements and corresponding guides. Some gamers feel the need to complete every aspect and loop of a game, if only for completion's sake. The idea of skipping content they don't like is unthinkable for some gamers. Pair that with a purely reward driven mindset rather than an experience driven, and you get grind and the resulting complaints about it.

I must admit I am fueled by the desire to:

a) Complete a System.
I have a very strong compulsion to finish a task I began. Regardless of the whatever pain, lack of rewards, etc. I really want to see it through. At least once. I suspect lots of long term cmdrs are similar. Once I have completed a system to my satisfaction this will be done.

b) Understand the Feature.
Once I set my mind to something I really want to understand it. I want to know how it works. Once I have reasonable first-hand knowledge and experience this will be done.


After this, I will only continue with any game feature if I find it fun. If colonisation is fun I will continue, otherwise not. Hence PP 2.0... I am done with it. For me it is not fun and there is no longer any point to doing PP activities.

 

[Rainbro]

I'm 50, pal. I'm not a 'modern gamer'. I'm sick of people going on about if you mention the mindless grind that comes with colonization this automatically means you want 'instant gratification

The mental gymnastics in this thread to justify the grind are quite something. People recommending that you watch Netflix while grinding to alleviate the boredom says everything you need to know about the 'gameplay' imvolved

"Instant gratification" is a surefire way to ensure that any discussion of gameplay goes off the rails. Reminds me of many similar debates on Supercruise, and whether it was good or bad that "alt-tab and wait" was a major strategy for space travel in the space game.

Then SCO came out and everyone seems to prefer it now. I guess the instant gratification of actual gameplay is more popular than expected, Douglas Adams be damned.

One idea I had for Colonisation would be to extend it to other branches of gameplay via missions. If you wanted a change from hauling, for example, existing pirate hunting missions could be repurposed as improving security for NPC deliveries (which don't even need to actually exist, just complete the mission and have the commodity totals jump up a moment later as the "convoy" arrives). Other gameplay branches could be included with missions where you do X for someone and they bring you Y in return. Just to add a bit of variety if desired.

Now sure, Frontier aren't going to do that anytime soon. Colonisation is basically done, just like Supercruise was, and Powerplay was, they probably don't have the resources to rework it right now. I didn't bother typing up that idea until now because I know how the forums are. But you never know for the future, and it's definitely not "entitled" or some other moral failing for discussing how gameplay could be improved.

 

[mtfatboy3006]

I don't understand the whole point of building Coriolis, I hoped that it would be a space hub where mined and manufactured goods from the system would be transported, because it makes sense and that's how NPC systems work. But that's not how it works, all it produces is biowaste

That's because its economy is colonization. NPC stations with a colony economy are the same. You have to build out the system more if you want it to become a particular economy quickly.

 

[Rat Catcher]

Can't wait for when they open it up in Colonia (once they have time to fix the issues), I love sourcing materials and hauling.

And no I am not being sarcastic for once.

If it is announced that expansion will happen from Colonia, my FC will be making an express trip...

 

[Jaffz]

More like "it should only include what i like. And all other aspects should be forbidden. And furthermore everything i like needs to be nice and easy, and anything someone else likes - if it really has to be in the game - should be grueling, hard, tiresome and 'realistic', because i call that 'immersion'. Unless i like the rewards this offers, then i want the same rewards. And easy please."

This kind of nonsense is exactly what I meant, thanks for underscoring my point

No one here has said any of these things, you've just made all that up

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

Happy birthday!

And no, I don’t need to chill. I for one am old enough to remember when you got whatever the developer wanted in a game and had no way to influence it.

If you didn’t like it you just sold it back to the shop you bought it from. The idea that a game should be changed specifically to your liking is entitlement, and it has a negative effect on the gaming industry.

It’s okay not to like an aspect of the game or even an entire game; it’s also okay to express your dislike, especially in a beta phase; but to expect the devs to change something just because you don’t like it, not so much.

I was invited to my first Beta in 2002, and my first Alpha later that year, and have seen the attitude change over the years. Gamers act like they’re far more entitled now, regardless of age.

Well yes because when I started gaming there was no Internet. Games weren't patched, there was no way to really push changes to games. That doesn't mean it's not a good idea to be able to do so....

The gaming industry harmed?? Errr....it's now a quadzillion dollar a year industry world-wide. I would like to think us "entitled gamers" have just a little to do with that, yes?

Entitled isn't the word you're looking for. Well unless you just are going for the whole inflammatory thing on purpose. However since you wished my old ass a happy b-day, I'll assume you're a cool dude

 

[Barbs]

I'm confused...

Building a colony system is an exercise in hauling, with the amount varying according to the size of the first station, straightforward enough.

Yet, here are folk complaining that a hauling project requires that they haul the stuff themselves (or, shock horror, have some friends join in the fun), wanting instead to hire NPC hauliers, or reduce the amount so thay can build their system in a couple of hours play...

Why bother?

It is a bit like wanting to visit Sag A* and searching around for a FC tourism service to take them there, because flying there is too demanding on their time, doing repetitive tasks for hours...

Don't want it to be easy and completed in a few hours at all.

All I want is some depth in the game. I am fine if it takes a month to build the first station, it actually seems a bit far fetched that the construction project was done in a week just because the materials happened to be delivered to the right place in that time. I think once all the materials are delivered you should get a message like, "thanks for delivering all the stuff, call back in this many days when construction is completed."

This game has a massive BGS going on and constantly there are ships coming and going from all the stations in the galaxy, yet they don't have any impact on what the player is doing. To me that's just lazy programming. Another example would be fleet carriers, you can load up a fleet carrier with say, steel, in a system that has massive demand for steel, list it at a competitive price and leave it there for a week. None of the BGS/NPC ships buy your steel, they just continue to haul it from another system.

Now in this latest update it's a similar thing. You have helped some faction find a site for a space station, they put all their resources into place and then only accept resources from a few pilots. And before someone jumps on that and says the NPCs etc are also bring stuff, you just can't see it. Why is it so hard to make it visible to the player? To me it would be much more enjoyable to be part of a bigger project if I could see the other parts of the project in action.

 

[Kenpachi85]

The amount we deliver isn't nearly enough to build the settlements, stations, ports, etc. That's just our share as architect. Everything else is handled by the NPCs we see. Of course we're allowed to get suckers.... I mean other players to help with our share.

I just placed my construction site for my Orbis station. I don't plan to get it done anytime soon, I just plan to add to it here and there while I build other stuff.

This is how I'm approaching it too probably best to start with a starport or coriolis for the first station and wait to build a orbis afterwards so there's no time limit on getting such a big construction done. I built a coriolis solo in a week without much trouble for my first system and nearly had a starport done in a single night for my 2nd system but the server hamsters had a heartastroke apparently. If you dont have a t9, cutter, carrier or don't enjoy space trucking like the op this prolly won't be something to get into.

 

[Vlad plus]

That's because its economy is colonization. NPC stations with a colony economy are the same. You have to build out the system more if you want it to become a particular economy quickly.

Unfortunately, it doesn't work or it doesn't work the way it should. All production buildings in the system were there before Thursday, on Coriolis only fuel and waste. Do you know of even one working "as it should" Coriolis? In NPC systems, in a similar situation, the economy works well and a large station has all the goods receives in the system, but here it does not.

Spoiler: pic

 

[mtfatboy3006]

Do you know of even one working "as it should" Coriolis?

They are all working as they should. My Coriolis

Like yours

has a "colony" economy, and stations with colony economies only sell hydrogen fuel and waste. NPC stations don't sell everything produced in the system, either. They sell whatever goods are relevant to their market economies, like this "industrial" station in Serda, not far from you.

It only sells industrial products. Agricultural products like Algae and Coffee are produced in settlements on the planet right below, and can even be bought at those settlements and sold at this station for profit, but it does not sell them.

It takes more than a server tick to move a Coriolis station's market economy from "colony" to something else. I doubt anyone knows what precisely yet. It might take the population's reaching a certain point, or the controlling faction entering a positive state, or even a specific state like Boom or Expansion. I don't know yet. But as long as a station's market economy is "colony," it will only sell fuel, waste, and limpets. That is all "colony" markets sell.

Market Economy

Star systems have a different government, local laws, and market economy. The market economies are dynamic, affected by the trade of other commanders, NPCs and events that occur in the system. Every station has its own supply and demand that change dynamically. Stations with a commodities market...

elite-dangerous.fandom.com

Both of our systems have fewer than 100,000 people in them. Mine has not entered a state yet. Yours is in blight. These obviously aren't the conditions needed to improve our stations' market economies. Our Coriolis stations are seeds planted in a garden. It will take time and tending before they produce.

 

[Screemonster]

• 24,037 New starports and outposts have been built
• 14,216 Surface installations have been established

And that the other 1/2 likes it so just enough to build 2 installations.

This to me indicates pretty clearly that material costs should go down and/or you should be able to use ingame credits to build stuff.
A 50% dropout rate is pretty huge, especially considering the length of these threads: people really really want to like this expansion.

Not really a good indication considering the number of bridge systems people have been plopping down purely to reach the systems they are interested in fully developing. Of course we're going to end up with a lot of systems where people drop a single outpost then move on.

Whether that's a desirable situation is a separate discussion, but the fact that systems exist without people further developing them doesn't necessarily mean the costs are too high (especially considering how low the costs are of building a surface settlement)

 

[Jmanis]

Whether that's a desirable situation is a separate discussion, but the fact that systems exist without people further developing them doesn't necessarily mean the costs are too high (especially considering how low the costs are of building a surface settlement)

Most T1 facilities are, what, 5000t of cargo? That's like, 8 hauls, tops... a one-hour session if that.